Inter-Racial Marriage Between Sikh and Christian

[Not2Cool2Argue]

5 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Pointless argument. Sikhs do and will marry whoever they choose and raise their kids however they choose 

That what makes sikhs sikhs? If all of us are just to do whatever we want. 

Obviously, ppl will do what they want. But surely the sikh traditions and the Gurus have some advice to offer? After all, if a guru cant offer guidance, than of what use is he?

Also, in the west, ppl who have lost their culture are very confused. They r looking at animals to determine what is the best diet for humans etc. When studies show ancestral food is the best. Studies like the one when 1st generation japanese who moved to hawaii were healthy and they continued to eat their cultural food. Second generation japanese started eating american foods and got diabestes etc.

America has messed up food. And who knows what else. They r barely learbing abt importance of meditation. 

Loneliness and suicides are the highest in western countries. And you want us to copy their selfish, independent thinking that lead to this state: do whatever u want. Go live independently of family and diaregard their advice cuz it doesnt match ur short term goals. 

 

[Sukhvirk1976]

7 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

That what makes sikhs sikhs? If all of us are just to do whatever we want. 

Obviously, ppl will do what they want. But surely the sikh traditions and the Gurus have some advice to offer? After all, if a guru cant offer guidance, than of what use is he?

Also, in the west, ppl who have lost their culture are very confused. They r looking at animals to determine what is the best diet for humans etc. When studies show ancestral food is the best. Studies like the one when 1st generation japanese who moved to hawaii were healthy and they continued to eat their cultural food. Second generation japanese started eating american foods and got diabestes etc.

America has messed up food. And who knows what else. They r barely learbing abt importance of meditation. 

Loneliness and suicides are the highest in western countries. And you want us to copy their selfish, independent thinking that lead to this state: do whatever u want. Go live independently of family and diaregard their advice cuz it doesnt match ur short term goals. 

 

Problem is there is scant evidence to support the idea that the gurus had a problem marriage across dharams. Moreover with regard to traditions guru nanak quite clearly demonstrated an cross culturalism as articulated in his attire.. The problem we have these days is that people want to reduce sikhi into a homogeneous singular identity when it is the epitome of pluralism.. 

[dallysingh101]

43 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Problem is there is scant evidence to support the idea that the gurus had a problem marriage across dharams. Moreover with regard to traditions guru nanak quite clearly demonstrated an cross culturalism as articulated in his attire.. The problem we have these days is that people want to reduce sikhi into a homogeneous singular identity when it is the epitome of pluralism.. 

This might be a misconception on your part. There is plenty of evidence in extant rehat-namas that suggest the preference was for Sikhs to marry Sikhs. 

And when you talk of pluralism, you seem to wash away the fact that the panth does have a whole host of demarcations that mark it off as separate from other communities. 

I'm not saying that marriages across dharams never took place, but it's not right to say that it was some sort of free for all in the name of pluralism. That's the reality of it. When they did take place it was usually down to compulsion (unavailability of Sikh brides in say Hazur Sahib) or derived of political machinations or personal whims like some of M. Ranjit Singh's marriages. 

[Akalifauj]

There is no evidence to say Gurbani or Guru sahib in history allowed interfaith marriages.  There is evidence right in first pauris of lavan to show whoever wants to be blessed with the Gurus blessing through lavan they need to drop their old religion and come to the Gurus path of Sikhi. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji gave charan di Pahul to Sikhs, which means he wanted his followers to transform into Sikhs and leave their old religion.   Our second Guru, Sri Guru Angad Dev ji (was Bhai lehna ji before) left his old religion after hearing the Bani of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.  No where in history will you find that Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji instructed bhai lehna ji to keep up with his old religion and Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji  would accept him as his Sikh. Bhai lehna ji only received Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji blessing after he dropped his old religion and followed the Gurus instructions. Sikhi is about transforming on the inside and this shows as a person dresses in appropriate clothing and covers the hair on the head.  

You have emotional and physical attachment to your boyfriend.  But the Guru will only accept him and you if you follow the Gurus path of becoming Sikhs.  

[Guest guest]

23 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Pointless argument. Sikhs do and will marry whoever they choose and raise their kids however they choose 

if your ancestors did that, you wouldn't be sikh.  race=culture=history=transmission of religion.  if you dilute it then what?

'Sikhs' choose to marry 'Sikhs'.  e.g. to give a silly example, you're not going to chose to marry a Capitalist if you are a Marxist.

you probably think sikhism is just a slogan.   you have no idea about walking the walk.

[Guest guest]

9 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Problem is there is scant evidence to support the idea that the gurus had a problem marriage across dharams. Moreover with regard to traditions guru nanak quite clearly demonstrated an cross culturalism as articulated in his attire.. The problem we have these days is that people want to reduce sikhi into a homogeneous singular identity when it is the epitome of pluralism.. 

Gurus married within their own dharams and castes.  

Guru Nanak did not wear clothing of different dharams at the same time, as far as I am aware.  Obviously when he was travelling, he has to buy/ wear what is available /suitable to that place.  Or if some devotees gives him a gift, he accepts that.  But he criticised the Hindus who adopted outward Muslim wear and habits in his Bani (do you even read Gurbani?).

Look what has happened to the Parsis, who had lax attitudes to inter-marriages in India.  Their community has dwindled.

[Guest guest]

9 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Problem is there is scant evidence to support the idea...

you clearly have no idea about the basics of logic.  not trying to be funny, but maybe you should read a book about it?

for example.  there is scant evidence that sikhs are not meant to worship fairies.  Shall we start worshipping faiires?

[Guest guest]

17 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Loneliness and suicides are the highest in western countries.

 

that is not factually correct, if statistics are to be believed (not to attack your argument, but just for the sake of accuracy)

[Guest guest]

On 2/11/2019 at 10:17 AM, dallysingh101 said:

Now you appear to be mixing culture (Panjabi) and religion (Sikhi). They can be very distinct and very often diametrically opposing ideals. 

i put an 'and' between those words, so how have i mixed them?  

anyway, they are mixed to one degree or another.  e.g. otherwise why are so many non-religious sikhs wearng turbans?  why do so many so many sikhs have names from Gurbani vocab and not names like Jerry and Susan?

 

[dallysingh101]

16 hours ago, Guest guest said:

i put an 'and' between those words, so how have i mixed them?  

anyway, they are mixed to one degree or another.  e.g. otherwise why are so many non-religious sikhs wearng turbans?  why do so many so many sikhs have names from Gurbani vocab and not names like Jerry and Susan?

 

Fair point. 

But let's not idealise our own past like moronic englishmen who imagine some pure England that never really existed outside of the imagination of some literary types. Charitrio Pakyaan and the fact that Panjabis have a whole host of folk tales that point at illicit meetings up (hello - Heer Ranhja, Sohni-Mehiwal, Mirza-Sahibaan etc etc. anyone??), clearly point at these things going on in the past too. 

When we go into fudhoo mode and a start imagining some pure and pristine golden era that never existed - we just set ourselves up for perpetual disappointment. Our ancestors dealt with all this type of sleaze too. It's not a new thing.

The question people should be asking maybe, is: "Well, if there is strong evidence of these illicit relationships taking place in the past - how comes we seem so shocked and unprepared for them now?"

I think the answer is pretty straightforward: Colonialism. 

That period of being under goray boots made our lot imbibe that contemporary Victorian, prudish, sexually repressed conservative attitude to sexual matters that goray were (and are!) famous for in that period and that influence (which we haven't shaken off) has turned us into a bunch of clueless fudhoos on these matters. Look how pervasive that anglo influence was/is - we have people to this day that are unable to accept CP as created within the Sikh ethos as a consequence.