Why was Jathedar Baba Sahib Singh ji Kicked Out?

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, dharamyudh said:

One more point. I personally defend the Kar Seva effort but I understand others do not, and ask you can see it is very, very, polarizing. I share a similar perspective to Bhai Jagraj Singh Ji. Even though you guys may have not gotten this off of me after my response, I consider it valid criticism to question dal panth in the 80s, especially in regards to the fighting. I personally consider it one of its failures. I also don't want you guys to believe I think Baba Santa Singh Ji is perfect, though my responses may indicate that, I just have a respect for them, their bhagti, and their seva especially with Sri Sarbloh Granth Ji. I have that same respect for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale and many other mahapurakhs who have done immense amounts of seva and bhagti. The only perfect being is Maharaj. Simple as. And THOUGH it may seem that I am Anti-Khalistani, I don't agree with this recent referendum. However, I have a deep respect for those shaheed singhs in the 80s-90s. Generally. Sure, the two sides don't see eye to eye but that's alright. All I ask is that we keep ekta because this polarization amongst jathebandia within the panth isn't good man. We also have some Nihangs that do nindya of Sant Ji. This is all wrong. All I just ask for is somewhat of mutual respect or the understanding of agreeing to disagree. 

Let's keep ekta.

I was going to agree with you bro and with that one asterisk on fighting in the 80s. You beat me to it. Lol. 

My current concern with the Dals is how heavily are they infiltrated by intelligence agencies? It's not that I'm afraid of the Dals. I'm afraid for the Dals. I intend to take Nihang Amrit one day. 

But clearly.  Clearly. Unfortunately. There has been a lot of messing with the Dals since the before the 80s to date, and it must be hard for them to keep their house clean and in proper leadership. I have to hand it to them. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Taksal and the Dals are supposed to be natural allies. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaja gave them their tasks. 

[dharamyudh]

6 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I was going to agree with you bro and with that one asterisk on fighting in the 80s. You beat me to it. Lol. 

My current concern with the Dals is how heavily are they infiltrated by intelligence agencies? It's not that I'm afraid of the Dals. I'm afraid for the Dals. I intend to take Nihang Amrit one day. 

But clearly.  Clearly. Unfortunately. There has been a lot of messing with the Dals since the before the 80s to date, and it must be hard for them to keep their house clean and in proper leadership. I have to hand it to them. 

Yeah, I mean you can really see this now especially with the split in Budha Dal. Last time it really was a unified unit was under Baba Santa Singh Ji.  The SGPC and Badals propagated Balbir Singh to take the jathedari. 

Balbir Singh and Badals.

 

It seems like all the real ones get taken out. I mean these guys were responsible for getting Baba Surjit Singh Ji arrested where he eventually passed away because of it, and later Baba Bahadur Singh Ji who was a straight Jangi Jarnail man. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Speaking to this. Two mistakes were made. 

One. The mad rush to Harminder Sahib and getting gunned down. No process to rally then counter attack and diversionary attack.

Two. While the Dals avoided that blunder they made the blunder of doing nothing largely, or being seen as such. 

So,

Some of us should have armed and grouped up and went to Harminder Sahib, some should have armed up into various sized groups and counter attacked important government targets and prominent figures to draw resources all over. And the rest of us should have rallied at neighborhood strong houses to defend. 

We should have all these rally points and equipment and training done well ahead of time. So if something happens were accustomed to getting into groups of 40, 13, 8, 5, 2 and 1. So our elders and kids know how to barricade and provide for themselves. How to shoot, how to cut, how to make verbal barriers. 

We should already be used to moving as a group. 

We should already know how to drive convoy. 

We should already have water stashes, food, weapons. Safe houses. Bungas. 

We should have radios. Optics. Etc. 

Firearms are sticky subject depending on location. You can sure as heck get a gun off an adharmi with a chakram or home made bow. A home made spear. Even with a Kirpan and proper positioning. 

You have to know how to shoot one once you get it though. 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

Gurudwaras should be built with withstanding attack in mind. Brick works etc pleasingly placed in a way that provides both beauty and reinforced covered concealed firing positions with fall backs and a central water source. Four doors absolutely...and eight firing positions. 

They make laminated bullet resistant glass you can shoot out of but not into and the Gurudwara should not be flamable. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Homework question. How to do you fight things like drones and aircraft with no guns? Heck guns are even obsolete against most now. 

Young scientists of the Paanth. Portable emp, lasers and other things to befuddle sensors, jammers, etc are the future of asymetrical irregular warfare, as is social engineering, publication,and primitive tools and techniques combined with Shastar training. 

If your spear training and bow training is on point rifle is easy. With little crossover practice. 

If your sword is on point pistol is no problem. 

Salotar, Kirpan, Khanda are the matrix for all other weapons. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Salotar alone actually can be used as all weapons. Little boys are not wrong and when men do it, it is for real. 

At one point the irish could only have shillelagh. Not even a kitchen knife. And we were so devestating with it they outlawed even the walking stick and made it illegal for us to raise our arms over our head. Just too dangerous to even let us raise a hand. 

So we still defiantly dance kaiyle that way. Can't move my arms? I'll be here practicing how to kill you with my footwork. 

[proactive]

4 hours ago, dharamyudh said:

One more point. I personally defend the Kar Seva effort but I understand others do not, and ask you can see it is very, very, polarizing. I share a similar perspective to Bhai Jagraj Singh Ji. Even though you guys may have not gotten this off of me after my response, I consider it valid criticism to question dal panth in the 80s, especially in regards to the fighting. I personally consider it one of its failures. I also don't want you guys to believe I think Baba Santa Singh Ji is perfect, though my responses may indicate that, I just have a respect for them, their bhagti, and their seva especially with Sri Sarbloh Granth Ji. I have that same respect for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale and many other mahapurakhs who have done immense amounts of seva and bhagti. The only perfect being is Maharaj. Simple as. And THOUGH it may seem that I am Anti-Khalistani, I don't agree with this recent referendum. However, I have a deep respect for those shaheed singhs in the 80s-90s. Sure, the two sides don't see eye to eye but that's alright. All I ask is that we keep ekta because this polarization amongst jathebandia within the panth isn't good man. We also have some Nihangs that do nindya of Sant Ji. This is all wrong. All I just ask for is somewhat of mutual respect or the understanding of agreeing to disagree. 

Let's keep ekta.

I see what you are saying but we have to look at the larger picture. Santa Singh and the Nanaksari Babas went against the ENTIRE Panth when they took part in the Kar Sewa. It's was not a small thing. At a time when the Panth needed unity they acted as the chumchay of Indira Gandhi and divided us and for that their crime is unforgivable. No amount of he did so much sewa blah blah blah will cut it. 

You claim that the last time Budha Dal had unity was under Santa Singh. Have you even considered that the actions of Santa Singh by becoming a chumcha of political parties such as the Congress allowed other parties like Akali Dal to also play one faction against another and now you have the fruits of what Sant Singh planted in his life. It's quite ironic that the person who divided the Panth in 1984, his legacy now is that the Budha Dal is in tatters. 

I don't agree with your assessment that a lot of people still did not know the truth about Santji after Bluestar. The only ones who were against him were the Congressi, the Comrades, the cultist Nirankaris and the Hindu extremists. You can decide which one of these groups  the people you know who lived through that period and held negative views about Santji fit into. The common Sikhs were never against Santji.

 

[proactive]

4 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

There are massive attempts to rewrite the history of 1984. #freejagginow

 

The attempt is mainly by those who weren't even alive in 1984. The action of Santa Singh pretty much destroyed any unity that the Panth had achieved as a result of the government's attack on Durbar Sahib. His actions allowed the government to show the world that there were Sikhs who agreed with its actions. Before Santa Singh all they had were a motley crew of already discredited Congressi Sikhs, Comrades and Nirankaris and Kukas. 

This in turn allowed the failed leadership of the Akali Dal like Longowal to come out of prison and with government help resurrect his reputation and allow the sell out leadership to weather the storm and stage a come back and destroy Punjab in the early 2000s.  All this the legacy of Santa Singh. 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, proactive said:

I see what you are saying but we have to look at the larger picture. Santa Singh and the Nanaksari Babas went against the ENTIRE Panth when they took part in the Kar Sewa. It's was not a small thing. At a time when the Panth needed unity they acted as the chumchay of Indira Gandhi and divided us and for that their crime is unforgivable. No amount of he did so much sewa blah blah blah will cut it. 

You claim that the last time Budha Dal had unity was under Santa Singh. Have you even considered that the actions of Santa Singh by becoming a chumcha of political parties such as the Congress allowed other parties like Akali Dal to also play one faction against another and now you have the fruits of what Sant Singh planted in his life. It's quite ironic that the person who divided the Panth in 1984, his legacy now is that the Budha Dal is in tatters. 

I don't agree with your assessment that a lot of people still did not know the truth about Santji after Bluestar. The only ones who were against him were the Congressi, the Comrades, the cultist Nirankaris and the Hindu extremists. You can decide which one of these groups  the people you know who lived through that period and held negative views about Santji fit into. The common Sikhs were never against Santji.

 

Nirankaris are disbanded right?