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What would an ideal but realiestic society look like?

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Just now, shastarSingh said:

good point.

sangat will select punj Pyare.

punj Pyare will select head of the sikh nation from the sangat.

the head of the sikh nation will always hv punj Pyare for advice.

punj Pyare will always be there to advice the head and if needed will hv the power to completely overturn the decision.

No system is 100%.

We will hv to believe in the akaal jyot which works thru 5 rehitvaan Gursikhs.

maybe one jathedar aswell whose more aware of worldy circumstances and Panj Pyare having also an advisory role like Banda Singh ji Bahadur. 

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Doesn't society need a structure though? If everyone is on the same social level then how would that work? If you look at a doctors surgery then there are different people at different levels, You have the Doctor>Nurse> Assistant Nurse>Receptionists>Cleaners. They all are at a different level and you need all of them for the surgery to run smoothly, you need a hierarchy structure for society to function successfully? If everyone is at the same level then how would that work? If everyone became the Doctor(higher up in the hierarchy) then who would be the receptionists and cleaners?   I know the elite are hogging all the wealth etc    but you still do need a structure for that society to actually function. 

I guess that is what the Varna system was initially about before the Bhamans saw how they could enslave society for their benefit and turned it into a caste system.     

You need this kind of structure/hierarchy   not everyone will be at the same level!  

 

 

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The ecosystem is very intricate and intertwined, every insect plays its role which is linked to another insects role. A bumble bee sucks all the nectar from a flower to make honey, while its doing that they help flowers reproduce with pollination, taking pollen from one flower to the other. Now if all the bees go on strike lol and refuse to collect honey then there will be a big fall in flower reproduction and change the ecosystem.

Some insects, like flies, maggots, dung beetles have a job to eat sh1t and rotting stuff  if they all go on strike lol   who would do that job then?    

Everything, including nature has a structure    its important to maintain this structure/hierarchy for society to run smoothly. So some people will always be at the top while others will be at the bottom. 

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23 minutes ago, puzzled said:

The ecosystem is very intricate and intertwined, every insect plays its role which is linked to another insects role. A bumble bee sucks all the nectar from a flower to make honey, while its doing that they help flowers reproduce with pollination, taking pollen from one flower to the other. Now if all the bees go on strike lol and refuse to collect honey then here will be a big fall in flower reproduction and change the ecosystem.

Some insects, life flies, maggots, dung beetles have a job to eat sh1t and rotting stuff  if they all go on strike lol   who would do that job then?    

Everything, including nature has a structure    its important to maintain this structure/hierarchy for society to run smoothly. So some people will always be at the top while others will be at the bottom. 

I'm reporting you to the KPF (Khalsa Police Force) for hurting Sikh sentiments. Your maximum sentence will be 50 strikes with a leather belt as you pull your ears, with your arms passing beneath your legs. The punishment will be carried out at your local gurdwara in 30 days. No appeals. 

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'm reporting you to the KPF (Khalsa Police Force) for hurting Sikh sentiments. Your maximum sentence will be 50 strikes with a leather belt as you pull your ears, with your arms passing beneath your legs. The punishment will be carried out at your local gurdwara in 30 days. No appeals. 

LOL       thats actually quite scary!  I guess thats what Khalistan perhaps will be like 

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I'm neither for or against Khalistan, whatever people feel is right for them then that is right!  But if Khalistan is created i think there will be a lot of hypocrisy in society, hypocrisy on the same level as our paki neighbors and there "pak" society.  In countries where religion governs the society the religious leaders rise to a very high level of power and in many cases they abuse that power! and people normally out of fear still respect these religious leaders because of the air of religiousness in society.  I'm not saying that is what a Sikh country would be like but it does happen!  A lot of people in religious garb commit every sin under the sun yet punish others for doing the same, its an age old story. 

Another thing the culture of the Northern region of the subcontinent is in conflict with the Religions that the people follow in these regions. The culture is very "macho" and rough and not in a Religious way either. North Indian culture really is not sophisticated or progressive.

For centuries the tawaifs of Benaras, now Varanasi were the most famed prostitutes in the subcontinent, yet Varanasi is one of the most holiest places in subcontinent. These kinds of contradictions exist throughout the subcontinent, especially the North. Pakistan is a Islamic Republic yet they have Heera Mandi red light district actively used in broad day light. The culture where we come from is very much in conflict with the religions that people follow, thats how contradictions and hypocrisy comes about as well. Punjab really is no different. 

I'm not surprised Southern Indians look down at Northerners tbh!

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35 minutes ago, puzzled said:

I'm not surprised Southern Indians look down at Northerners tbh!

I lived in Madras now Chennai for 4 months.

Very nice people. excellent food.

many people told me that it's becoz of Sardaars that we got independence.

Very simple nice people.

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2 hours ago, puzzled said:

Doesn't society need a structure though? If everyone is on the same social level then how would that work? If you look at a doctors surgery then there are different people are different levels, You have the Doctor>Nurse> Assistant Nurse>Receptionists>Cleaners. They all are at a different level and you need all of them for the surgery to run smoothly, you need a hierarchy structure for society to function successfully? If everyone is at the same level then how would that work? If everyone became the Doctor(higher up in the hierarchy) then who would be the receptionists and cleaners?   I know the elite are hogging all the wealth etc    but you still do need a structure for that society to actually function. 

I guess that is what the Varna system was initially about before the Bhamans saw how they could enslave society for their benefit and turned it into a caste system.     

You need this kind of structure/hierarchy   not everyone will be at the same level!  

 

 

u need hierarchy but u also need some sort of economic equality.

u can't hv a person working in a factory earning 15000 rs and factory owner earning 500000 rs.

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43 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

u need hierarchy but u also need some sort of economic equality.

u can't hv a person working in a factory earning 15000 rs and factory owner earning 500000 rs.

Why?

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1 minute ago, MisterrSingh said:

Why?

becoz it fuels economy inequality.

there has to be an upper limit as to what a person can earn just as we hv minimum wage limit.

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4 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

becoz it fuels economy inequality.

there has to be an upper limit as to what a person can earn just as we hv minimum wage limit.

Those are two different issues.

If there's no reason for anyone to accrue wealth through business (even at a reasonable level that doesn't spill over into obscenity), there will be no incentive to invest, therefore infrastructure will suffer and economic prosperity will be virtually nonexistent. It'll be another Pakistan. How is that going to benefit a fledgling country that requires serious economic injection in order to get on its feet? 

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We have all the examples of what works and what doesn't in this day and age. 

It's not just the system, but also the culture of the people that determines what works and what doesn't. 

For our own community, I think the american model is best. We love our independance, gun-ownership, and free markets. You get what you earn. Keeps everyone on their toes. No room for slacking for the able bodied.

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20 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Those are two different issues.

If there's no reason for anyone to accrue wealth through business (even at a reasonable level that doesn't spill over into obscenity), there will be no incentive to invest, therefore infrastructure will suffer and economic prosperity will be virtually nonexistent. It'll be another Pakistan. How is that going to benefit a fledgling country that requires serious economic injection in order to get on its feet? 

China from 1949-2000 was a complete communist country and their model worked.There was less poverty,good food, health and education.

after 2000 China opened to foreign capitalists but even today it is 80% or more communist and was doing pretty good before the corona thing happened.

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1 minute ago, shastarSingh said:

China from 1949-2000 was a complete communist country and their model worked.There was less poverty,good food, health and education.

after 2000 China opened to foreign capitalists but even today it is 80% or more communist and was doing pretty good before the corona thing happened.

There was mass starvation and poverty in china until they changed their economy and started producing everything in the world this last thirty years. That and buying up land and debt all over the globe. 

They're situated very differently now, massively different, but it was at a huge cost to the environment, and their people. 

Their seat at the table was bought with slave labor for three decades, but they've produced everything the world needed for next to nothing and managed to buy themselves up and out and almost essentially in charge. 

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30 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

China from 1949-2000 was a complete communist country and their model worked.There was less poverty,good food, health and education.

after 2000 China opened to foreign capitalists but even today it is 80% or more communist and was doing pretty good before the corona thing happened.

Are you kidding me? Seriously? You're using Communist CHINA as something to aspire to?!?

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