.

[jkvlondon]

1 minute ago, Akalifauj said:

Where in Gurbani or history did Guru Amar Das ji say not to wear a mask in Guru Sahib darbar DURING a pandemic?

covering the face is frowned on , do you think anyone used pandemic as an excuse before , because I'm sure they had loads back in the day?

[Akalifauj]

Just now, jkvlondon said:

covering the face is frowned on , do you think anyone used pandemic as an excuse before , because I'm sure they had loads back in the day?

There is always context.  For example alcohol for cleaning a wound is good.  Alcohol to drink is manmat in Sikhi.  

So you don't actually have history or Gurbani to back up your claim.  Essentially you are putting words in the Guru's mouth, knowing the Guru did not say it.  This is manmat.  Sure there may have been pandemics in the past.  But you don't have any information on how the Guru would have dealt with it.  Do you not see a problem with your wild claim?  The Guru has refused darshan to a Muslim women who covered her face for religious/cultural reasons.   However this reference is not related to the pandemic where  face mask help prevent the further spread of  a deadly virus.  

[jkvlondon]

1 minute ago, Akalifauj said:

There is always context.  For example alcohol for cleaning a wound is good.  Alcohol to drink is manmat in Sikhi.  

So you don't actually have history or Gurbani to back up your claim.  Essentially you are putting words in the Guru's mouth, knowing the Guru did not say it.  This is manmat.  Sure there may have been pandemics in the past.  But you don't have any information on how the Guru would have dealt with it.  Do you not see a problem with your wild claim?  The Guru has refused darshan to a Muslim women who covered her face for religious/cultural reasons.   However this reference is not related to the pandemic where  face mask help prevent the further spread of  a deadly virus.  

I did not put words in Guru ji's mouth just said what my heart felt , like I was hiding in fear when sitting in the presence of the healer of all the universe  it seemed  like I didn't have strength in faith

[Akalifauj]

55 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

I did not put words in Guru ji's mouth just said what my heart felt , like I was hiding in fear when sitting in the presence of the healer of all the universe  it seemed  like I didn't have strength in faith

What your heart felt is not what the Guru said.  We don't have any historical reference to say what the Guru said, if such a incident had arose.  You made it up.  Since you speak of faith.  We have circumstances in history where Sikhs and people in general were injured or sick.  Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib ji helped the sick using what method they had in that time.  Guru Sahib didn't say faith is not to use current medical methods to get rid of the illness or prevent it and just have faith in me  If you are suggesting such fanatical ideas than give your head a shake.  Sri Guru Gobind Singh sahib ji was attacked and the attacker managed to cut Guru Sahib abdominal area.  A doctor was brought in to fix the wound. 

Your theory has no standing in history or Gurbani.  I wish you would accept the hukam of Guru Sahib and stop this nonsense on here.  Many people are losing their lives due to covid 19 and irresponsible people like you are telling people to not wear preventive face coverings.  I think,  the @ADMIN @MOD @S1 NGH should not allow any post that says face mask don't help or the covid 19 virus is not real. 

[jkvlondon]

19 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

What your heart felt is not what the Guru said.  We don't have any historical reference to say what the Guru said, if such a incident had arose.  You made it up.  Since you speak of faith.  We have circumstances in history where Sikhs and people in general were injured or sick.  Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib ji helped the sick using what method they had in that time.  Guru Sahib didn't say faith is not to use current medical methods to get rid of the illness or prevent it and just have faith in me  If you are suggesting such fanatical ideas than give your head a shake.  Sri Guru Gobind Singh sahib ji was attacked and the attacker managed to cut Guru Sahib abdominal area.  A doctor was brought in to fix the wound. 

Your theory has no standing in history or Gurbani.  I wish you would accept the hukam of Guru Sahib and stop this nonsense on here.  Many people are losing their lives due to covid 19 and irresponsible people like you are telling people to not wear preventive face coverings.  I think,  the @ADMIN @MOD @S1 NGH should not allow any post that says face mask don't help or the covid 19 virus is not real. 

i said to be careful what you trusted in terms of masks as i have read the scientific studies about materials, construction and fit and also trialled and sewn masks for loved ones , friends and patients . tshirt material is inadequate as it has too many holes and if the total gaps around your mask add up to the surface of a ten pence renders the effectiveness to less than 30% so yes then there is no real protection.

[Akalifauj]

13 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

i said to be careful what you trusted in terms of masks as i have read the scientific studies about materials, construction and fit and also trialled and sewn masks for loved ones , friends and patients . tshirt material is inadequate as it has too many holes and if the total gaps around your mask add up to the surface of a ten pence renders the effectiveness to less than 30% so yes then there is no real protection.

Sure, I see that post.  However, later you say in a different post:

anyway face masks don't seem yo make any diff really except keep your spittle to yourself

which is it, mask are effective according to you or or not?  Because the above is  a blanketed statement that says all mask don't work 

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

Sure, I see that post.  However, later you say in a different post:

 

 

which is it, mask are effective according to you or or not?  Because the above is  a blanketed statement that says all mask don't work 

whether you wear it or not the curve of casesvs deaths doesn't change much if you watch the Ivor Cummins video he shows the data analysed by numerous people including epidemiologists and scientists against other diseases pandemics/epidemics  too . It seems that it is more about susceptibilities due to multiple comorbidities and malnutirition rather than masks . In fact he shows Swedens numbers are actually not foolowing the modelling forecasts it has only 1/15th of the total covid deaths  predicted . Kudrat is more complex than they imagine .

I have made the masks for my lot to protect them from bullies needing an excuse for a racist attack and to reassure the frightened as they have already had the covid and recovered in february (of course I treated them according to symptoms which I found out later were exactly what was associated with this virus). Fear is a greater weapon to lay people's immune systems low that's why I say do the necessary legally but remember reality is chances are if you eat clean, don't smoke/vape, drink alcohol , and sleep well you have very low chance of being laid low if you do get it ..

[Akalifauj]

42 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

whether you wear it or not the curve of casesvs deaths doesn't change much if you watch the Ivor Cummins video he shows the data analysed by numerous people including epidemiologists and scientists against other diseases pandemics/epidemics  too . It seems that it is more about susceptibilities due to multiple comorbidities and malnutirition rather than masks . In fact he shows Swedens numbers are actually not foolowing the modelling forecasts it has only 1/15th of the total covid deaths  predicted . Kudrat is more complex than they imagine .

I have made the masks for my lot to protect them from bullies needing an excuse for a racist attack and to reassure the frightened as they have already had the covid and recovered in february (of course I treated them according to symptoms which I found out later were exactly what was associated with this virus). Fear is a greater weapon to lay people's immune systems low that's why I say do the necessary legally but remember reality is chances are if you eat clean, don't smoke/vape, drink alcohol , and sleep well you have very low chance of being laid low if you do get it ..

Stop spreading propaganda.   Any person with a little bit of common sense will look at individual cases and be able to tell, wearing a mask is very effective. Businesses have managed to keep the virus away by telling their employees to wear a mask.  Businesses where the virus hit and later got control by making employees wear mask and taking the symptomatic employees to stay home.  After wearing a mask, the virus has not shown up again in that business. A mask worn by a person protects others from getting the virus.  A person can be asymptomatic and without a mask, they can pass it to someone else who will have serious damage to their internal organs or die.  This is the reason why people with common sense wear a mask.  We don't whine and cry about it feeling discomfort.  It's done for others.  

[Premi5]

21 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

 Any person with a little bit of common sense will look at individual cases and be able to tell, wearing a mask is very effective. This is the reason why people with common sense wear a mask.  

I don't think it is much to do with 'common sense' 

I think we should keep an open mind about anything we do not immediately believe

[jkvlondon]

52 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Stop spreading propaganda.   Any person with a little bit of common sense will look at individual cases and be able to tell, wearing a mask is very effective. Businesses have managed to keep the virus away by telling their employees to wear a mask.  Businesses where the virus hit and later got control by making employees wear mask and taking the symptomatic employees to stay home.  After wearing a mask, the virus has not shown up again in that business. A mask worn by a person protects others from getting the virus.  A person can be asymptomatic and without a mask, they can pass it to someone else who will have serious damage to their internal organs or die.  This is the reason why people with common sense wear a mask.  We don't whine and cry about it feeling discomfort.  It's done for others.  

day before yesterday I had a very interesting talk with a nurse whilst waiting for my Mum OUTSIDE the hospital on the hospital's policy . She had been in Italy working when the covid hit and she had her doubts about the  efficacy of all the measures too because of her observations of both countries responses and their effect in hospitals . She also mentioned the nature of the people who are worst off and they fall into the category at risk for seasonal deaths or complications due to iatrogenic causes of multiple medications for chronic conditions. Being from Algeria she mentioned that border closures prevents her to visit family but she didn't seem to feel that people there were  panicked (as many nations are not) people are not travelling unnecessarily, keeing food stores of dried goods just in case there is strict lockdown  and keep their distances anyway but life has to continue as most live hand to mouth.

My American Colleagues have commented that they went on weekend hikes through a nearby range of hills and people there were so fearful they were wearing masks  and screaming at anyone walking within five metres of them , when seated they were maintaining distance of ten metres or more from each other and still feeling need to rush to cover their faces inbetween  mouthfuls of water or food .  I think this level of fear is unnecessary given what we know and also the fact that such levels of fear burn through the same vitamin and mineral reserves you need to support your immune system .

This virus is here to stay but already it has developed multiple forms which are milder less fatal  as cases increases show vs less death count/hospitalization counts .