Ideally, how many children should Sikhs be having?

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

Oh and about taxes we need to start dealing in things other than money because that's not taxed. And we need to make use of every religious nonprofit exemption and type of business practice so that any money we touch we don't have to give to these imperials bro. And in situations where we were going to have to accept money and pay taxes on it, shoot turn that into something we need and just give me that make a food donation. Buy the land deed to this little rural pot of land instead and just sign that over to the Sangat you know what I'm saying?

Back to saving money unintentionally, if everyone's saving a bunch of money because the way that we help each other, and we can afford to give more of the Gurudwara, then our taxable income becomes less and we save money just on taxes even. 

Not that Daswand is about what you get for it. But we be fools not to optimize this whole process so that we get the most from it and we can give the most because of that. 

In the realm of survival prepping, socially helping each other, and forming cooperatives and things like this, unfortunately all flavors of christian in this country are ahead of us good bad and indifferent. 

What we could do however?  Nobody's doing.  We could blow everybody out of the water. 

We could have a Sangat that Purtan Gursikhs wpuld recognize. 

I mean we've all seen how diverse the activities in the pictures surrounding the Guru Sahiban are right?

Everything from laundry, to food preparation, from Degh Seva to wrestling. Lectures on Gurmat as well as worldly educational issues. Medicine and Care being provided. 

[Kaurr 956]

4 kids is the plan. 

A lot of young women don't want to live with their in laws, including myself, because they have seen what has happen to their mothers. I know so many immigrant Punjabi women, including some people from my family, that if they had not settled abroad away from their in laws, then they would not have survived because of how messed up and controlling the families are. It is possible to have 4 kids without living with the in laws and the mother still working part time. I have a southern European friend with 4 siblings in total, with a few that are below the age of 12, and the mother still works part time. You can have the siblings, in-laws, parents and other family helping, but not live under the same roof. A lot of young women, including myself, don't want to stop working completely because they don't want to be 100% dependant on the husband for money because they have seen the consequences of that to their mothers and others around them. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

5 hours ago, Kaurr said:

4 kids is the plan. 

A lot of young women don't want to live with their in laws, including myself, because they have seen what has happen to their mothers. I know so many immigrant Punjabi women, including some people from my family, that if they had not settled abroad away from their in laws, then they would not have survived because of how messed up and controlling the families are. It is possible to have 4 kids without living with the in laws and the mother still working part time. I have a southern European friend with 4 siblings in total, with a few that are below the age of 12, and the mother still works part time. You can have the siblings, in-laws, parents and other family helping, but not live under the same roof. A lot of young women, including myself, don't want to stop working completely because they don't want to be 100% dependant on the husband for money because they have seen the consequences of that to their mothers and others around them. 

True. But your kids in that situation are going to be in schools and other places where a lot of this life crippling abuse takes place. 

That's the trade they've forced upon us. Both work, and have just enough money, but your kids belong to us.

I hear you on the money thing. In my mind I assume men are like me and turn everything over to the family or at least spend it wisely only on the family, putting themself last. 

The more extended and older a family group is the more all the younger people can work. 

Here's another concept. Don't want to try this with your family?

Get a Bunga going and have some one else's mother live with you. 

For me personally the historic and present extent of the types of abuses that we've all been enduring while being plugged into this system makes me want to put all my energy in a different direction. 

[Kaurr 956]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

True. But your kids in that situation are going to be in schools and other places where a lot of this life crippling abuse takes place. 

That's the trade they've forced upon us. Both work, and have just enough money, but your kids belong to us.

I hear you on the money thing. In my mind I assume men are like me and turn everything over to the family or at least spend it wisely only on the family, putting themself last. 

The more extended and older a family group is the more all the younger people can work. 

Here's another concept. Don't want to try this with your family?

Get a Bunga going and have some one else's mother live with you. 

For me personally the historic and present extent of the types of abuses that we've all been enduring while being plugged into this system makes me want to put all my energy in a different direction. 

When I do have kids, which will be in like 15 years, I'm not going to work full time, I feel it's better to take time off work when they're really young and then work part time a few days a week until they're all at least 10-11. The husband can take an extra day off as well if that works. Then make sure to have as much time for them.

Men often do turn over everything to the family, and they often do place themselves last with money, but they abuse the power of them being the providers, and often they can do what ever the f they want around the house, say whatever they want, treat their wife however they want and then the wife can't do or say anything back because she has nothing,because he is the provider and because without him she can't go anywhere. Really messes the kids up, and often the son ends up thinking he can be like that when he's married, so you have the daughter basically have to make sure that the son ends up respecting women and being a decent human. 

In the future, I don't want to live under a roof with anyone else's mother. I have seen several families where you have one or both parents still working part time without any in-laws and still raising the kids well. I would love for parents and in-laws to help, they can live in the same neighbourhood or around us, but just not live under the same roof in the same house. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

1 hour ago, Kaurr said:

When I do have kids, which will be in like 15 years, I'm not going to work full time, I feel it's better to take time off work when they're really young and then work part time a few days a week until they're all at least 10-11. The husband can take an extra day off as well if that works. Then make sure to have as much time for them.

Men often do turn over everything to the family, and they often do place themselves last with money, but they abuse the power of them being the providers, and often they can do what ever the f they want around the house, say whatever they want, treat their wife however they want and then the wife can't do or say anything back because she has nothing,because he is the provider and because without him she can't go anywhere. Really messes the kids up, and often the son ends up thinking he can be like that when he's married, so you have the daughter basically have to make sure that the son ends up respecting women and being a decent human. 

In the future, I don't want to live under a roof with anyone else's mother. I have seen several families where you have one or both parents still working part time without any in-laws and still raising the kids well. I would love for parents and in-laws to help, they can live in the same neighbourhood or around us, but just not live under the same roof in the same house. 

Think that middle paragraph goes both ways, I mean while a man shouldn't, just because he worked, be able to come home and act however he wants, also it doesn't mean when he comes home after he works, he should be treated just however either. And ultimately as long as everyone's working in some way towards the family good, and respecting each other, that works,  it's just a matter of what culture or educational system you want your kids to be brought up in. 

[Premi5 3,183]

 

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/gallery/huge-procession-eastville-memory-great-6789671

Huge procession in Eastville in memory of ‘great woman’ who had 100 grandchildren

Gurbachan Harbans Kaur Khalsa was a prominent member of Bristol’s Sikh community

 

By

Beth CruseSenior reporter

• 16:17, 11 MAR 2022
• UPDATED21:39, 11 MAR 2022

 

An incredible procession in memory of a ‘great woman’ who was a prominent member of Bristol’s Sikh community brightened the streets of Eastville this morning (Friday, March 11).

Gurbachan Harbans Kaur Khalsa passed away at the age of 90 on March 1 after suffering from dementia.

She had more than 100 grandchildren, including great-grandchildren, who turned out in great numbers to remember her extraordinary life.

Gurbachan was married to Shingara Singh Khalsa, who passed away in 2019, and founded the city’s first Sikh temple. The pair were dedicated to helping others, and were described as "massive figures" in the Sikh community.

 

Her emotional send-off started at her home address on Glenfrome Road in Eastville. At around 11.45am, Gurbachan was transported to the Sikh Temple in Fishponds by horse and carriage, followed by a truck with a Sikh flag playing music, and a long line of funeral cars.

Her grandchildren followed the horse and carriage on foot singing traditional Sikh music and holding a painting in her memory, passing the Eastville M32 roundabout as motorists stopped to allow passage. Two of her grandchildren lit colourful flares as they approached the Temple.

 

Gurbachan's grandson Hardeep Singh said: "She was a great woman. She was very religious as a 'khalsa.'" Khalsa is a group into which committed Sikhs can be initiated to demonstrate their devotion to their faith.

"But a few years ago she started deteriorating due to her age," Hardeep said. "It's going to be hard, but she's gone to a better place.

"It's sad to see her go but we're here to celebrate the long life she had."

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

1 hour ago, Premi5 said:

 

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/gallery/huge-procession-eastville-memory-great-6789671

Huge procession in Eastville in memory of ‘great woman’ who had 100 grandchildren

Gurbachan Harbans Kaur Khalsa was a prominent member of Bristol’s Sikh community

 

By

Beth CruseSenior reporter

• 16:17, 11 MAR 2022
• UPDATED21:39, 11 MAR 2022

 

An incredible procession in memory of a ‘great woman’ who was a prominent member of Bristol’s Sikh community brightened the streets of Eastville this morning (Friday, March 11).

Gurbachan Harbans Kaur Khalsa passed away at the age of 90 on March 1 after suffering from dementia.

She had more than 100 grandchildren, including great-grandchildren, who turned out in great numbers to remember her extraordinary life.

Gurbachan was married to Shingara Singh Khalsa, who passed away in 2019, and founded the city’s first Sikh temple. The pair were dedicated to helping others, and were described as "massive figures" in the Sikh community.

 

Her emotional send-off started at her home address on Glenfrome Road in Eastville. At around 11.45am, Gurbachan was transported to the Sikh Temple in Fishponds by horse and carriage, followed by a truck with a Sikh flag playing music, and a long line of funeral cars.

Her grandchildren followed the horse and carriage on foot singing traditional Sikh music and holding a painting in her memory, passing the Eastville M32 roundabout as motorists stopped to allow passage. Two of her grandchildren lit colourful flares as they approached the Temple.

 

Gurbachan's grandson Hardeep Singh said: "She was a great woman. She was very religious as a 'khalsa.'" Khalsa is a group into which committed Sikhs can be initiated to demonstrate their devotion to their faith.

"But a few years ago she started deteriorating due to her age," Hardeep said. "It's going to be hard, but she's gone to a better place.

"It's sad to see her go but we're here to celebrate the long life she had."

Well I hope remembering her grandchildren's names wasn't a criteria for determining mental faculty. Incredible. 

[5aaban 620]

Some recent news regarding fertility rates

https://thelogicalindian.com/trending/fertility-rate-declining-in-all-communities-steepest-in-the-muslim-community-35476

Total Fertility Rate Falls In All Communities, Steepest Decline Among Muslims:

NFHS Data Writer: Shashwat Swaroop Garg India,  10 May 2022 10:18 PM

In the new NFHS report, the overall fertility rate of India has fallen below the replacement level of two children per woman.

 Data from the National Family Health Survey (NFHS) conducted by the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare shows that the country's overall fertility rate has declined. The Muslim community is said to have the steepest decline out of all the religious communities over the past two decades. The Muslim community's fertility rate declined from 2.6 in 2015-2016 to 2.3 in 2019-2021.

While, all the communities have shown a noticeable decline in their fertility rates, which in turn contributes to a drop in the total fertility rate of the country, the decline has been the steepest in the Muslim community, going from 4.4 in NFHS 1 (1992-93) to 2.3 in NFHS 5 (2019-21).
 

The fertility rate of the Muslim community is the highest among all religious communities. The Muslim community has faced two accelerated declines in the community fertility rate. The first decline occurred between 1992-93 and 1998-99, while the second decline occurred between 2005-06 and 2015-16, when the rate dropped by 0.8 points.

In a data report by The Indian Express, the current fertility rates of the religious communities in NFHS 5 are as follows: The Muslim Community has a fertility rate of 2.3, with the Hindu community following at 1.94 in NFHS 5. The Christian community has a fertility rate of 1.88, the Sikh community at 1.61, the Jain community at 1.6 and the Buddhist and neo-Buddhist community at 1.39—the lowest rate in the country.

Fertility Gap Between Two Communities
 

Poonam Muttreja, who is the Executive Director of the Population Foundation of India, an NGO, said, "The fertility gap between Hindus and Muslims is narrowing. High fertility is mostly a result of non-religious factors such as levels of literacy, employment, income and access to health services. The current gap between the two communities is because of Muslims' disadvantage on these parameters." She further said that over the past few decades, an emerging Muslim middle class has been realising the value of girls' education and family planning.
 

 

[Jassu 632]

Minimum 3

[SinghPunjabSingh 289]

"The Muslim Community has a fertility rate of 2.3, with the Hindu community following at 1.94 in NFHS 5. The Christian community has a fertility rate of 1.88, the Sikh community at 1.61, the Jain community at 1.6 and the Buddhist and neo-Buddhist community at 1.39—the lowest rate in the country."

What the figures above neglect to mention is that the Muslims marry off their girls at age 16 in India and that excluding Jains (who are primarily from a business background), the Muslims have the second highest proportion of castes termed as "general category" in India or "higher caste" in Pakistan and yet still have the highest fertility rates. 

In contrast most non-Muslim men in India are getting married at around twice the age that most Muslim females get married at. The two minority Dharmic faiths which are composed of a majority of economically downtrodden backgrounds (98% in the case of Buddhists and 52% in the case of Sikhs) which have the most to offer India have below replacement levels of TFR and which implies that even the poorest non-Muslims in India have lower fertility rates than so-called "higher caste" Muslims such as the Muslim Rajputs (Ranghars), Muslim Brahmins (Butts), Muslim Khatri's (Sheikhs), Pathans, Syeds etc.

The statistics imply a trajectory that there will be more than One Billion Muslims plus just across India, Pakistan and Bangladesh by 2050 in contrast to 20 million or less Sikhs in India by then unless our community gets serious about serious sewa and parchaar to non-Punjabi's in India (alongside the poorest communities in Punjabi and the Bihari's already resident in Punjab).

 

[Dsinghd 438]

3 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

The statistics imply a trajectory that there will be more than One Billion Muslims plus just across India, Pakistan and Bangladesh by 2050 in contrast to 20 million or less Sikhs in India by then unless our community gets serious about serious sewa and parchaar to non-Punjabi's in India (alongside the poorest communities in Punjabi and the Bihari's already resident in Punjab).

 

There are 25 million Sikhs in India. 1.72% in 2022.