Ideally, how many children should Sikhs be having?

[Guest Guest Sikh]

Sikhs in the puratan times had many kids but now majority stick to max 2 children. Ideally, how many kids should Sikhs be having to increase our population?

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

21 hours ago, Guest Guest Sikh said:

Sikhs in the puratan times had many kids but now majority stick to max 2 children. Ideally, how many kids should Sikhs be having to increase our population?

4

[proudkaur21 2,094]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

4

But it is not possible for a women to work as well as take care of 4 children. If we want to entertain the idea of higher children then sikh men have to come to terms with having stay at home wives but is it possible when everything is becoming expensive? I mean the orthodox jewish women who have multiple kids usually stay at home and take care of the kids. For a working women taking care of 4 kids+work+running the home will be very difficult. Im not sure if men are okay with having stay at home wives in today's world?

[Jacfsing2 872]

28 minutes ago, proudkaur21 said:

But it is not possible for a women to work as well as take care of 4 children. If we want to entertain the idea of higher children then sikh men have to come to terms with having stay at home wives but is it possible when everything is becoming expensive? I mean the orthodox jewish women who have multiple kids usually stay at home and take care of the kids. For a working women taking care of 4 kids+work+running the home will be very difficult. Im not sure if men are okay with having stay at home wives in today's world?

Men should be the primary provider for the family, regardless how controversial that sounds. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

2 hours ago, proudkaur21 said:

But it is not possible for a women to work as well as take care of 4 children. If we want to entertain the idea of higher children then sikh men have to come to terms with having stay at home wives but is it possible when everything is becoming expensive? I mean the orthodox jewish women who have multiple kids usually stay at home and take care of the kids. For a working women taking care of 4 kids+work+running the home will be very difficult. Im not sure if men are okay with having stay at home wives in today's world?

Number of children aside somebody has to stay home, one child four children makes no difference, we cannot have our kids off getting a free public miseducation in being a Kalyugi. Getting molested in after school programs while we slave to pay taxes. 

Man or woman being the breadwinner doesn't matter if they're intelligent enough, emotionally and intellectually, to respect each other and work together. 

However it is going to take an extended family effort, the effort of Bungas, and our Gurudwaras, our Sangat, to collaborate in a way when it comes to taking care of and educating our children, saving money on food and other things by doing things as a group as a cooperative, beyond Langar which is fantastic.  So that we can afford to not go extinct. 

Now most women would actually prefer the man works. It's just they didn't like being stuck as single women, with kids, unable to find work, before they were allowed to join the workforce officially, and given something resembling equal pay and opportunity. 

Unfortunately it has inflated the labor pool and essentially two people now make as much as one did a generation ago or less so yes we are basically forced into working for governments while they raise our children and paying taxes and having no representation. 

But it is of such importance to us that no matter what it costs to our appearance our wealth etc we need to have extended families where only a few of the members are working to provide them in a whole lot of other stuff we need to be doing as a Sangat. We need to reduce our dependency on money while simultaneously having enough of it. 

[proactive 4,121]

2 hours ago, proudkaur21 said:

But it is not possible for a women to work as well as take care of 4 children. If we want to entertain the idea of higher children then sikh men have to come to terms with having stay at home wives but is it possible when everything is becoming expensive? I mean the orthodox jewish women who have multiple kids usually stay at home and take care of the kids. For a working women taking care of 4 kids+work+running the home will be very difficult. Im not sure if men are okay with having stay at home wives in today's world?

This is why we have to retain or go back to the extended family model. 4 children would be difficult to raise without the help of grandparents and younger siblings. The modern liberal family is set up for failure. The couple want to move out as soon as they marry, because their living expenses are a lot then they both need to work and hence they don't have any children or have one child. The ones who don't have a child may create a comfortable lifestyle in a few decades and old age but then who will they leave their house and all their goods to when they go? Their cats and their dogs? 

The ones who raise just one child usually pamper the child so much that he or she becomes a brat and will never be able survive in the real world. If the child goes wayward then its like the same as the couples that never had kids at all.

More children living in an extended family especially allows either the family to live with just one income or the help of the grandparents to look after the children may allow the wife to work part time. 4 children should be the norm if we want to progress as a community. After a few years the older children can look after the younger ones, having older siblings in school prevent bullying of the younger kids. There are a host of benefits that a large family has over just a couple on their own or a couple with just one child. 

Our future lies in our married couples having more children than has become the norm now. It is better to have l basic Gurdwaras full of Sangat rather than gold plated massive Gurdwaras with a small Sangat getting smaller by the year. 

It is the inculcation of liberal beliefs which have tried to destroy the essential maternal nature of women and tried to turn women into just clones of men. Both men and women have an inherent desire to have children. It is possible for women to have a career and have children, it is just that you will be a decade or so behind those who have no children. What is better to be a CEO of a company at 40 but have a no children or a CEO at 50 but having a large family? 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

If our Gurudwaras we're running on all cylinders anyone walking in there would feel no concern about putting money into the Golak. You'd have full trust in whoever runs it. You'd see the evidence of where the money goes all around you, and you would know that actually by associating with these people, you can afford to give them money, because it's going to save you money collaborating with them, all that money you save, that pressure that would be removed by being able to collaborate with a group of people, we could invest back into the Paanth. 

Education, child care, motorpool, health practices, martial arts, tutoring. Sports if we must.  After school programs. You know the average family might spend money on all these things now right, why not do it with the Sangat at a fraction of the cost, and be able to give the money to the Gurudwara instead of the local taekwondo School. 

Our own trade union. Our own systems for getting people better jobs. 

That's all money we could save, and generate as a Sangat so we can afford many kids as you want, that's how many you should be able to have. Same people that want to tell you the world's overpopulated or the ones breeding like rabbits they just don't want you doing it because they're trying to take over. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

2 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Men should be the primary provider for the family, regardless how controversial that sounds. 

Is generally what works out best dude, so that we can endure the dangers of this occupied planet while our women are safe doing what they do best, which is not in any way a criticism, it is the highest compliment, doing what they do best, birthing and raising children for God. 

Is it representative of their potential? No they're capable of doing anything anyone else can do and that. 

I can't make a baby, I can't under normal circumstances breastfeed one, clearly after giving birth, women have to be the ones to stay with the babies and for a long time and they love doing it they just don't like being forced into only doing it. 

Or being denied a job if they need one no one likes that. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

Here's another place we need to collaborate we need to have our elders in bunga communities together instead of old folks homes being run by who knows who and I know it's expensive that's why we have to be creative and collaborate. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

8 minutes ago, proactive said:

This is why we have to retain or go back to the extended family model. 4 children would be difficult to raise without the help of grandparents and younger siblings. The modern liberal family is set up for failure. The couple want to move out as soon as they marry, because their living expenses are a lot then they both need to work and hence they don't have any children or have one child. The ones who don't have a child may create a comfortable lifestyle in a few decades and old age but then who will they leave their house and all their goods to when they go? Their cats and their dogs? 

The ones who raise just one child usually pamper the child so much that he or she becomes a brat and will never be able survive in the real world. If the child goes wayward then its like the same as the couples that never had kids at all.

More children living in an extended family especially allows either the family to live with just one income or the help of the grandparents to look after the children may allow the wife to work part time. 4 children should be the norm if we want to progress as a community. After a few years the older children can look after the younger ones, having older siblings in school prevent bullying of the younger kids. There are a host of benefits that a large family has over just a couple on their own or a couple with just one child. 

Our future lies in our married couples having more children than has become the norm now. It is better to have l basic Gurdwaras full of Sangat rather than gold plated massive Gurdwaras with a small Sangat getting smaller by the year. 

It is the inculcation of liberal beliefs which have tried to destroy the essential maternal nature of women and tried to turn women into just clones of men. Both men and women have an inherent desire to have children. It is possible for women to have a career and have children, it is just that you will be a decade or so behind those who have no children. What is better to be a CEO of a company at 40 but have a no children or a CEO at 50 but having a large family? 

Amen bro. Restoring the extended family, restoring the bunga network, restoring Gurudwaras and the Sanget to its original intent and purpose, is absolutely what we need to do to solve all of those problems. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

Consider of everybody in the Sangat that works on their cars at home, having you know, their own jack, their own wrenches, their own sockets, extenders, their own this their own that blah blah blah. Garage full of tools. 

For twice the amount of money that one person invests so let's say for two people's money or three I mean we could have our own garage?

Instead of none of us having any room in our garage. 

And you just have it at one of the bungas where everyone can get together and work on their cars and listen to Kirtan. 

We could even buy and sell junk cars after fixing them up or give them to people that need them within the community you know single mom broke or something like that. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

I mean total up all the dollars that gets put into sports, after school programs, martial arts, music, tutoring. If all that money goes to us, why don't we just do that instead, and because we're offering all the things, the overhead is going to be less for us than all those businesses that have to support their storefronts and XYZ location we can easily undercut everybody for ourselves by ourselves. 

Most of the space is already paid for it's just empty most the time. 

As soon as we outgrow that or we run into things that just have to be to different property, well we're vibing right at that point let's get that property. 

Many of us pay ro send our kids to be preyed upon by outsiders, how about we charge outsiders to be protected by our kids instead? Real Sangat has no or low price. Outsiders pay more. A lot more. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

Gurudwara should be full all day, everyday, almost 24 hours dude if not 24 hours. 

And our women, who don't have to work if they don't want to, with their children, could be a large part of this Sevadar Force. 

Supported by a suitable number of fighting males. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

All right last tangent but we need our own bath houses with our own saunas our own steam rooms you know what I'm saying with a laundry facility. 

[GurjantGnostic 4,644]

Last tangent he says...lol...and we need rural land and land within society both. The city needs to feed the rural area money and the rural area needs to feed the city people proper food and a fallback position in case of apocalypse.