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Ok, You lot are all saying it's okay. But think of it like this. It isn't wrote in the Sri Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but isn't it obvious? We should be in love with the one lord creator, not with a man. Also, other religious granths such as the Bible condemn going to bed with another man. It's like saying we should cut our hair because it doesn't say that in the Guru Granth Sahib! Why did all of the Singhs marry women? Why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji have a wife? Singhs need to expand the Khalsa Panth. If you want to be gay, be gay, but don't spread it on to others. - - - - - - www.nihangdal.netau.net

Hukkam vs Dharam (Duty) For years and years I have been hearing so called youth parchaaraks misusing the term Hukam. They are very quick to quote "Hukam ander sabh ko, bar hukam na koi!" so what comes first? duty or hukkum? We are told to earn honesty- Kirat Karni- so we get up and work to make money. But if it was hukkam for us to have money then we'd make money regardless? no need to get outa bed right? Not quite.. first comes Dharam. Dharam is our duty as Sikhs, whilst fulfilling out duties what the outcome is Hukkam. We do kirat karni- some make millions.. others barely get by- That is Hukkum, but at no stage do we stop kirat. Our duhaavi duties includes us raising children. We tr to give them the best in terms of Sikhi and worldly possessions, because that's our duty as a Parent. We do not leave them to wander the streets, and say its in maharaajs hukkam how they turn out. No!.. hukkum is the outcome. If your child turns out to be a Saint/Soldier or the next badmaash.. thats Hukkum!.. but your duty comes first to raise them correctly. As a Sikh it is our duty to stand up for injustice, whilst doing so what ever the outcome is will be maharaaj's hukkum. I remember speaking to a Gursikh after a a young sikh girl had been abused. I said its a shame we didn't retaliate, so this person would think twice about abusing a girl again. His response was that its up to god what happens to him, and that everything happens in maharaajs hukkam. At the same time this gursikh was taking a school to court for something that had happened to his child, something minor.. but he spent £1000's trying to prosecute them because his felt hard done by. Why didn't he leave that as hukkum? What really gets to me is when people misuse Gurbani to justify doing NOTHING!! in the face of evil. I absolutely hate the way our youth are turned into passive, submissive, totally selfish, self-centered budhists with this type of preaching. They have no concept of Dharmic social responsibility, they quick to judge anyone who doesn't conform to THEIR own rubbish principles of their own self appointed jathedhars. They spend hours on the internet doing nindhiya.. only last night someone emailed a 4 page essay on how Shaheed Bhai Bhagat Singh ji should not be declared a Sikh. lol.. at least he understood his responsibility as a Sikh to fight injustice and gave the ultimate sacrifice for Dharam, for me he is no different for the maha Shaheeds of 1984, he fought gulaami. what do these super-sikhs fight? couldn't even fight their own obesity!!! We are taught such misconstrued versions of ithaas, Sikhi, hand-picked saakhis and gurbani quotes - favoring Jeevan sakhis written by individuals with premeditated conclusions over real Banis, Banis of Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaaaj. This leaves are youth with a confused, contradictory social outlook, and unable to determine what social responsibilities they should adhere to.

The website has a blatant section where Gays, Lesbians and Bis*xuals can pick each other up. Also promotes the idea of MOC (Marriage of Conveniences) for Gays and Lesbians so that they please their Sikh families and carry on their lifestyles behind closed doors. The website talks about fetish's and promotes ideas of promiscuous relationships. I have no issue with someones s*xual orientation as it's their personal conditioned choice, but don't justify it by bringing your own self manufactured "Sikh" angle.

To me, Sant/Mahapurash/Brahmgyani is name of an avastha and it should not be used a title for somebody's name. Because only waheguru knows your true avastha.

Waheguru! this is absurd! they are turning this into like hindu bheta.. which is really sad.. and it sounds like hans raj hans (not sure) but it is sad that it is happening in the hazoori of guru sahib.. this is all hindu matt!

This is all I have to say: ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਭੂਲਹਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਖਾਹਿ || Reading and studying, one becomes confused, and suffers punishment. ਬਹੁਤੁ ਸਿਆਣਪ ਆਵਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ || By great cleverness, one is consigned to coming and going in reincarnation. ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪੈ ਭਉ ਭੋਜਨੁ ਖਾਇ || One who chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and eats the food of the Fear of God ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੇਵਕ ਰਹੇ ਸਮਾਇ ||੫|| becomes Gurmukh, the Lord's servant, and remains absorbed in the Lord. ||5|| and let's not get angry at these people because they have gotten on the wrong path. Let's all do ardas for them so, they understand the concept of Sikhi. DhanGuruNanak! and ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਆਖੀਐ ਪੜਿ ਅਖਰੁ ਏਹੋ ਬੁਝੀਐ || Do not call anyone bad; read these words, and understand. ਮੂਰਖੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਲੁਝੀਐ ||੧੯|| Don't argue with fools. ||19||

iblwvlu ] bilaaval || Bilaaval: rwiK lyhu hm qy ibgrI ] raakh laehu ham thae bigaree || Save me! I have disobeyed You. sIlu Drmu jpu Bgiq n kInI hau AiBmwn tyF pgrI ]1] rhwau ] seel dhharam jap bhagath n keenee ho abhimaan ttaedt pagaree ||1|| rehaao || I have not practiced humility, righteousness or devotional worship; I am proud and egotistical, and I have taken a crooked path. ||1||Pause|| Amr jwin sMcI ieh kwieAw ieh imiQAw kwcI ggrI ] amar jaan sa(n)chee eih kaaeiaa eih mithhiaa kaachee gagaree || Believing this body to be immortal, I pampered it, but it is a fragile and perishable vessel. ijnih invwij swij hm kIey iqsih ibswir Avr lgrI ]1] jinehi nivaaj saaj ham keeeae thisehi bisaar avar lagaree ||1|| Forgetting the Lord who formed, fashioned and embellished me, I have become attached to another. ||1|| sMiDk qoih swD nhI khIAau srin pry qumrI pgrI ] sa(n)dhhik thohi saadhh nehee keheeao saran parae thumaree pagaree || I am Your thief; I cannot be called holy. I have fallen at Your feet, seeking Your Sanctuary. kih kbIr ieh ibnqI sunIAhu mq Gwlhu jm kI KbrI ]2]6] kehi kabeer eih binathee suneeahu math ghaalahu jam kee khabaree ||2||6|| Says Kabeer, please listen to this prayer of mine, O Lord; please do not send me sommons of the Messenger of Death. ||2||6||

More than tan you should be worried about diarrhea.

Darshan Singh should first teach some Gurmat to his own family. I recently saw a private picture of his son with arms around two half naked girls and a bottle in hand.

Two brothers may fight and make fun of each other but they don't ever put doubt whether they are real blood brothers or not. Certain people from Akj and Taksal (mostly balaitey) may make fun of each other but both do understand the mahatav and have immense respect for the concept of naam simran. Sadly, missionaries and darsho group believes that reciting naam simran in any format is tota baaje (Parrot) which is insult to our dharam. Keeping personal differences with other jathabandees aside, one should find real dushman and defeat em with increase of more prachar. I will never support khalsa aid and that is my personal choice. i asked beforehand in other thread regarding the names of the person of certain jathabandis they contacted before they jump into bed with gian missionary club but still no reply but instead back in circles of emotional reply of "dharmi fauj this or that"... Chalo uhna deh marji, jidha hi roti panni chalda, challey jaan.. Now coming back to moderator viewpoint.. All posts regarding KA (in this thread) after this reply will get deleted (unless it is is answer to somebody's post/reply above or to make one time final reply).

That's amazing...if only more of the western world knew of how big a part Sikhs played in guaranteeing their democracy.

Taksal and Nihangs don't make fun of naam simran, instead they partake in it. Khalsa Aid is doing an immense seva in many different aspects. That is without a doubt. If what the Khalsa Aid sevadaar says is true that no other Jathebandi or Singhs came forward to teach the young Sikhs then I can see why they would go to Gurmat Gian College. I am sure Sikhs on this forum have connections to Jathebandis and Sampardas such as Damdami Taksal, Jawadi Taksal or a dera of mahanpurshes. If we were to humbly ask the respective Singhs in charge of the different Jathebandis I am absolutely sure that someone would be interested in taking up this seva to teach children and I am sure Khalsa Aid would welcome them. So could we do that? I personally don't have any strong connections to anyone, but someone on this forum could help with this. Gurmat Gian College should not be teaching Sikh children anti-sikh values. A simple question about the Panj Baniya from a Sikh child would result in the Gurmat Gian College sevadar to tell them Guru Gobind Singh Ji's banis don't count, and therefore, don't read them. Khalsa Aid, by the looks of it, had no other choice, but why don't we give them another choice Let's organise other Jathebandis that teach REAL Sikhi to help Khalsa Aid, this would solve the concern we all have and allow those Sikh youth to not get brainwashed into Gurmat Gian College's false ideologies. I'll help whoever in any way I can, just give me a PM.

everyone has karma that they must pay off. so it's not god that harms someone, it's their own deeds from earlier in this life or from past lives. doing simran, seva, and satsangat, can reduce the harm from these karams by getting rid of them completely, or by reducing the harmful effect if they must manifest in our lives. for example, a car accident that would have paralysed someone, may end up only breaking their leg. also, sometimes seemingly bad things happen and we wake up and make positive changes in our lives only b/c of those.

Bhaji, it is very easy to sant-bash, from what I have seen Sants and granthies repeatedly say not to go to these devi type places, not to seek out taveets and other pir type places. this is repeated over and over again. But these things seem to be embedded in the punjabi culture so deep that people just do not listen. Bibi's will go to these hindu type places and get the taggay and taweets, how many times has it been repeated that we do not fast but come the time every year our people keep fast. It is not part of our faith but it is in the culture that these people live in in india.

just by growing hair, u dont get where u need to get to. but it is a gift from guruji to us. so this is the siple answer. in taksaal maryadha, it is said that those who are with shaven heads are said to come in a re-incarntion of a stone. cuz it has no hair. SGGS says rom rom ravya har naam.meaning that with the rom we need to meditate on god. in japji sahib, gurji says to us basically that to make all hairs on our body, a tongue so we can say vaheguru/ sing the praises of god with all those newly created tongue. the hair. andit is defo possible.. our guru has given us a tool (the body) that once it is in puran saroop with all the hair unshorn, we can, IN 1 SECOND, do the praise of god, 'fifty billion, billion' times! the buddists are exactly like the sikhs. they reached good spiritual levels, but mainly dharam khand. cuza the just keep their good deciplind and way of life. they realised that hair has >an effect< on spirituality. but they saw this effecet as a detriment/ hinderance. our gurus saw this as YET another tool to help us to get to god.. there is no one else like our guru.. who call themselves as they do. and dasmesh pita says... >> bilaa kesh hech, ast jumale nishaan<< <BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">meaning without kesh, all the other nishaanis are pointless........(because you have no grounding for understanding what sikhi is.. or where it starts from or what guru says about rom rom simran.... so keeping youself handcuffed (by wearing a kara) to what you dont believe in or lisen to, is jumala! .. im jus pointing this out as a side note) dhan dasmesh jis writings. in bhai gurdaasji rehetnama, it says that >rom rom achar so lehehu<. rom/rorm etc.. means hair. <this tuk means for us to understand each letter of dhan guru granth sahib maha raaaj as the guru 's hair. ......................... we are to aim to anhad vaj bani/naam. if we are not fit enough to keep the rehet of 'puran saroop', then how are we going to anhad vuj bani? and thern onward to merge into guruji himself ey jimmy? we need to build our house >>completely<< (so no hair removal whatsoever basically) so guruji can come inside us to dwell in. >mohan ghr avo<. ho can we eve do this benti if our house is not even built. and then not tidy.also as a side thing, ppl hu eat meat, it can be taken that they do chitte of blood on the walls of the house ie. the body, our body. so how an tey even bein to do any kinda benti? they need to keep the rehet first. puran rehet. and, since ppl hu cut hair 'go against god' for cutting the 'mool' that god gave them (which can be taken as them saying that they know beter than god) , it cannot be expected for the full fruits of heaven/god to be attained. lastly, the way i inteprate japji sahibs, >dharam khand ka eho dharam<, is that, >those people that have nothing but a good dharam, they will reach to the first 'level' of heaven..< but thats just my understanding. however, some people think that if they just keep a good karam, then they are sorted. they fail to take into account their past lives.. there is now proof of past lives existing. all those bad deeds that were done, could have been washed if naam was done (with all the heart of oneself). then one may have been saved from the next life, or at least will have les karam to bhorg in the next life.... LASTLY, WHEn you are dead, you leave this life in the puran saroop that god gave you. and as how you were intended. also, cutting hair an be taken a the want of the mun. when we need to move away from what our mun wants, and then to become niichat. i.e. want-less. also, its easy to get into maya with the physial looks aspect. move away from ourselves. comeunder the sharan of guruji. simple as.. gurfateh

My dad was in Salinas, California last week and he met a man whose grandfather was Polish and fought in the world war (i think world war 2) and he asked my dad whether he was a Sikh, my dad replied that he was . The man that my dad met told a story of how his grandfather fought in the world war and how they encountered Sikhs. He told that they(many of the soldiers) were always scared when they went fighting but they wanted to fight alongside Sikhs because Sikhs were known for bravery. He said that a lot of people would hide in trenches to avoid being seen but a Sikh wouldn't try to hide, the Sikh would skillfully attack and defend in a bold manner without fear. What impressed the man who was telling my dad the story was when his grandfather told that not only were the soldiers happy and relieved if they were fighting alongside sikhs, they would gain courage that they previously did not have. Sikhs were known for being amazing fearless warriors in both of the world wars. It's amazing to hear about, it's like Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji was there giving them courage to fight in yudh. What separated the soldiers in the end was Chardi Kalaa spirits, just like the spirits of the Shaheeds from the 70s-90s and continuing on today. Skill and military training can do so much, but chardi kalaa and teachings of Guru Ji will be there with you and carry you across this ocean. Waheguru is the only thing i can think after this. Was pretty awesome to hear about.

Veerji sorry my posts sound Rude but i was just frustrated. the reason i talked about conversions is because the area they are teaching in there is a high rate of conversion into christainity because christain missionaries offer education and a better life.... a lot of people give in and convert... i agreee with you..... you shouldnt do uthna bethna with guru nindak but GPS veerjis approach isn't right!! instead of fixing the problem, trying to find a solution he seems to be bashing khalsa aid. is that the right approach? i am sorry my previous posts didnt make much sense.. i want to make it clear i DONT support Missionaries but i Believe that we shouldnt stop supporting khalsa aid...whatever problem we see we should try to fix it because we own khalsa aid....it runs on sangats money so..... it is OUR responsibility that we fix that problem rather than bashing khalsa aid..... Question shouldnt be whether or not to support khalsa aid Question SHOULD be How to get some other jathebandi like taksal or someone with neutral sikhi beliefs to teach the kids.. Time shouldnt be spent bashing Khalsa Aid but In trying to find that someone who could do that seva (once they agree, let khalsa aid know) GPS veerji sorry i sound really rude but i am sick of people bringing down sikhi causes...they rely on funds given by us people and if we dont stop blaming them for something that could be easily solved by us then we are hurting important sikh causes khalsa aid is working for. i am NOT supporting the missionaries.. all i am saying is that GPS veerjis approach is wrong!! instead of attacking khalsa aid for what they are doing..... He should get other jathebandian like taksal with appropriate sikhi beliefs to step up and take up the seva missionaries are now doing... Just because khalsa aid is taking help from missionaries doesnt mean we should Not support them..we should do something about it!!! We should make sure kids get appropriate education by talking to other jathebandis and see if they are interested in helping out... We need to understand where the problem lies.. not in khalsa aid what they are doing is great.... problem is in missionaries.. since khalsa aid didnt take missionary problem seriously and still gave them the seva (i understand why they did it (because they were the only ones that came forward) So i repreat Since we all know missionaries arent right we should talk to other jathebandis and get them to ask khalsa aid if they could do the seva... sitting here and complaining about this and that isnt the way out!! Btw most of the books in sacha sauda and other sikhi stores are of sikh missionaries.. in pretty much all schools kids read sikh missionary books for religious studies.. So problem is much bigger than who khalsa aid got to teach the kids.. NOT ONLY THOSE kids but mostly alll kids are taught from sikh missionary... Like i said before i am not pro missionary i do support you and dont think kids should be learning from them... BUT THE PROBLEM is much bigger than that... and GPS your approach is wrong.. you cant make khalsa aid look bad.. it relies on funds given by sangat.. and they take up lot other sevas than just giving kids education Like i said before.. i agree that they arent the best ones to learn from but then IF NO ONE ELSE HAS COME FORWARD i rather have my kids learn from them than not learn at all... OR have my kids convert to christainity cos they were never taught basics of sikhi.. so yh..... i am sorry i was and am rude i dont know a better way of talking to people i am moorakh.... i dont know how to be talk and i sound like i am talking outta ego but all i am saying is its frustrating to see khalsa aid being attacked as they are doing so much for the panth.. yet we are only looking at their small faults that could be easily fixed by sangat.

He was poking fun at the ignorance of the person who made the original comment about the rag-head (i.e. some people in the U.S. think Obama is a Muslim, thus a 'rag-head'), etc. The "Its towelhead, ****-head" comment made that pretty clear. Nothing to get upset about or start making YouTube videos. Unless I've misunderstood the issue?

Erm stop making a song and dance about every trivial thing. Sikhs have much more greater issues than a remark directed at anybody with a turban [sikhs, Arabs etc] HIGNFY is an ace programme. His remarks were in sarcasm at the person who made the statement about Obama being a 'Raghead' listen to the last remark he says 'D***head' At least try and understand the satire before throwing a wobbly! Fateh!

Waheguru jee always speak directly to us if we ask his input seriously (like taking hukamnama before doing something which we are double-minded).

Not sceptics, slanderers. There are people who slander real saints. It is the greatest sin in Sikhism. I don't want to set off something that will lead to the slander of a saint.

you don't half live in a fantasy world... me personally.. i'd rather your average sikh guy was President of khalistan, than be trodden on, looted, mocked, raped, killed by the b*stards in dehli... Anything is better than gulaami.. once we got khalistan we can work towards allowing sikhi to flourish. you stupid people forgotten the injustices?? you forgotten our brothers rotting in the jails? you like reading sardar ji jokes in every media?? you lot deserve gulaami u bunch of pehnji pehnji fairy sell-outs!!

GPS so many people already mentioned that they got gurmat missionarys help because no one esle came forward... can you stop repeating yourself over and over again... as i said a lot of people dont like missionary college but they would never stop them from doing the seva of teaching kids of shaheed families because they know that if they dont do it no one else is going to do it... isnt it better that they learn missionary than be converted to christanity by christain missionaries... (so they have acess to education) or they dont get education at all.. So stop yelling about all this and stop making khalsa aid look bad.... IF YOU CANT DO THAT SEVA YOURSELF AND IF YOU CANT HAVE TAKSAL or other jathebandis come forward in teaching them gurmat THEN stop complaining!!!!!!!!!! talking to you is like talking to a wall...... khalsa aid do all kind of seva they are doing lot more for sikhi and humanity than half of us that are sitting on our asses writing here...complaining and whining.... so if you cant help them with the seva... then alteast dont keep others from doing it....

another thing... just because missionary is teaching the kids doesnt mean their sikhi beliefs are going to be messsed up.. i am sure they arent going to emphasize the messed up beliefs they have.. my dad my massi they all were taught at the missionary college but their beliefs are perfectly normal.... there are missionaries doing kathas at gurughars talking against gurmat and simran..... how about you fix that before you attack khalsa aid. those kids need education and if missionary college is the only way then why not??

veerji it doesnt matter... now since gps is sooo concerned and other people are so concerned then why dont they contact those jathebandis and ask them to contact khalsa aid khalsa aid has many other projects that they are working on.. those that are concerned should contact the jathebandis and ask them to contact khalsa aid so they could tkae on the seva of teaching the kids... missionaries probably offered help and khalsa aid took it.. other jathebandis probably never offered that help.. our panth is soooo indulged in politics and eevrything that it isnt focusing on important issues like helping families of shaheeds.. missionary college is messed up with its beleifs but they gave that helping hand to people when it was needed...... now we cant tell those people that ... missionary college is messed up..... dont get help from them......THEY NEED THE HELP They are going to get it from whoeever offers it so the point is that GPS veerji is sooo concerned about that... he should approach taksal and other jathebanis and try to get them to do something.... not start attacking khalsa aid.... this is going to keep kids from getting the education because he brings it up every chance he gets and starts attacking khalsa aid... if it bothers him so much then like i said before WHY not getting others to come forward...!!????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLcpGHeNGgI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ieBlnvxmk&feature=related imagine if we had thousands of sikh soldiers trained in british american canadian special forces fighting for their country, and going to other parts of the world doing the duty's of a saint soldier fighting terrorism and protecting th einocent fighting terrorism in iraq afghanistan yemen afghanistan libya palastine pakistan india

I hope you're not insinuating that Sikhs somehow won the World Wars. The Polaks couldnt defend their country so no wonder they needed morale boosts. Plenty of brave people fought in World War 2 without needing Sikhs to hold their hands. Lol, I dont think they would care. Anyway, who's democracy did we guarantee? America was the only country fighting for democracy in WW2, that's why the parts they conquered became democracies after the war. There were hardly any Sikhs in the US armed forces then.