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Do people who take Amrit in this day and age know why exactly they are taking Amrit and the responsibility and expectations it entails? Or is it just a way of washing away previous sins and saying "Mein Gursikh Ban Gaya", crank out the 5 Baniya everyday for the rest of their lives, and sit back and expect to be welcomed open-armed into whichever heavenly paradise they hope to reach? The quality of mature (i.e. over 40) Amrit-taker, from what I've seen in my own personal life, may appear as a Gursikh but they haven't forgone the old Panjabiyat attitudes to caste, community, etc. They've just dressed themselves up as respectable, pious individuals without caring to give their insides the same scrub-down (figuratively speaking). People such as these have devalued the blessing of Amrit, so much so that some people belittle those who have taken Amrit by saying things such as "Leh! Amrit shakh leya! Pakhandi saadh", etc! You get these attitudes and snide remarks because of some folks past experiences with those purporting to be Guru Ji's Sikhs. Although I must say the youth who take Amrit (certainly in the UK) take the whole thing very, very seriously. Some might say too seriously if the 'Pesh' topics on this site are any indication ( :biggrin2: ). But generally these young lads and lasses completely understand the committment they are making to Guru Ji once they've taken Amrit, and if that's any indication then the future might be okay for us.

Blatant hatred? If you're going to come on here and pass of fantasy stories from the n.ang website then be prepared to have them challenged. It's true the British hated the Nihangs and their accounts during the British always include a mention of how lawless they were. Maharaja Ranjit Singh tolerated them because they provided good fighters for his campaign but he lost no time in clearing their influence from Amritsar once Akali Phula Singh had become Shaheed. If they were ever tens of thousands (which I doubt) then the bulk of their strength would have become depleted due to the Anglo-Sikh wars. The Khalsa army was 60-70,000 strong and if the Nihangs were similar in number then the Khalsa state would have been able to put over 1 lakh troops on the battlefield which was never the case. Unless the Nihangs remained aloof from the war which we know they did not. Maybe you want to say that they miraculously didn't lose any numbers whilst the Khalsa army lost close to 30,000 men the first Anglo-Sikh war.

This has already started. I know a western Nihang who claims that half of the casualties in operation blue star were Nihangs. 32 thousand nihangs is a HUGE over exaggeration. The Nihang army of Akali Phula Singh Jee never numbered more than 3000. Maharaja Ranjit Singh was apprehensive about their power and fearlessness which is why he would direct their uncontrollable aggressiveness towards fighting the Pathans. This not only provided M Ranjit Singh with a powerful source of manpower who fought with a fanatical religious zeal but also made sure that the Nihang numbers would be maintained (by getting Shaheed in war) instead of increasing to the point where they might be strong enough to challenge the Lahore Durbar. The high point of the Nihangs was during Akali Phula Singh Jee's time period. After Akali Jee got Shaheed the Nihang power and influence began to decline to the point where they were no longer a major player in Sikh politics by the 1st Anglo Sikh war.

Thats more like it, Tony, good post.

Hari Ram Gupta is very prejudiced and biased in his books. He doesn’t accurately present the Sikh history of Guru Period and early 18th century. I couldn’t read his last 3 volumes because first 2 were more than enough to show how he misquoted many sources, twisted facts, added his own remarks and rejected some of the accepted ones. I’d recommend books by Sohan Singh Seetal, Prem Singh Hoti and Dr. Ganda Singh as best sources to study Sikh history of early 19th century. Even during Akali Phoola Singh, Nihungs never numbered to 32,000 in any battle. I think nangs are making up stories in a desperate attempt to have a claim at the glory. In 100 years they will state that there were many thousand nihungs in Harimandar Sahib in 1984 fighting against the Indian army. Guru Rakha

Know yourself and leave others to themelves. One who knows himself knows God.

Jathedar Baba Hanuman Singh Ji Shaheed Fresco of Baba Hanuman Singh Ji at Gurdwara Baba Atal Rai, Amritsar Akaali Baba Hanuman Singh Ji, The 7th leader of the Budha Dal, was born to Baba Garja Singh Ji and Mata Harnam Kaur Ji in November 1755. Baba Ji fought in many great battles under the leadership of Akaali Baba Naina Singh Ji and Akaali Baba Phula Singh Ji (the 5th and 6th Jathedars of Budha Dal). After the Shaheedi of Akaali Phula Singh Ji at Naushera in 1823, Baba Hanuman Singh Ji became the leader of the Akaali Nihangs, as well as the Jathedar of Akaal Takht Sahib at the age of 68 years old. Akaali Baba Hanuman Singh Ji’s tenure as Jathedar of the Sikh nation came as the Panth was experiencing a very critical time. The Maharaja of the Punjab, Ranjit Singh died from stroke complications, his successors were murdered, the treacherous Dogra’s sold out the Lahore Darbar to the British, and the British were planning on annexing the Punjab. Trusted Sikh general Sardar Sham Singh Attari came to the city of Amritsar and approached Jathedar Hanuman Singh for assistance against the British. Meeting at the Akaal Takht, Sham Singh said to Baba Hanuman Singh “Baba Ji, I wish to fight against the British, but have no army. I have no more then myself and my sons.” Baba Ji replied “Oh Singh Ji, who does this Akaali fauj belong to, if not to the Sikh nation.” During the battle of Sabroan, Sardar Sham Singh Ji and many Sikh warriors received martyrdom fighting the British soldiers, inflicting huge losses to the invaders. Baba Hanuman Singh Ji and the remaining Singhs went to camp out in the Sikh Princely state of Patiala. The King of Patiala, Maharaja Karam Singh upon receiving word that the knights of the Guru were camped out in his state, out of fear of retribution for his support to the British, Karam Singh informed the British of the whereabouts of the Jathedar and Sikh army. Baba Ji and the Sikh soldiers were surrounded by the British and their Sikh cohorts, the Princes’ of Patiala, Jind, Faridkot and other traitors. The British army and their Sikh stooges opened up cannon fire on the Sikhs. 15,000 Sikhs attained martyrdom at the spot where Gurdwara Dukh Niwaran now stands in the district of Patiala. Budha Dal oral tradition states that 32,000 Singhs became shaheed during this battle. Leader of the Sikh army, Jathedar Baba Hanuman Singh Ji and around 500 Nihang warriors survived this attack, and continued to fight the heavy cannon fire of the British, with swords, bows and arrows, axes and matchlock fire. Finally after running out of gun powder and watching thousands of Sikh warriors achieve shaheedi, the brave Jathedar of the Guru’s beloved Khalsa, Akaali Baba Hanuman Singh Ji died fighting for the freedom of the people of Punjab at the age of 90. After the martyrdom of Baba Hanuman Singh, Akaali Baba Prehlada Singh Ji became the 8th leader of the Akaali Nihang Singh Khalsa. The British implemented a shoot to kill order on the Nihang Singhs, and Baba Prehlada Singh left for the holy Takht Sahib at Nander to regroup the Akaali army. The few remaining Nihang Singhs, left with Baba Ji towards Hazoor Sahib, or moved camp to the jungles of Punjab and Rajputana to preserve the heritage of the Guru’s army. Gurdwara Sohana Sahib Ji located in the Mohali district of Punjab, was built on the shaheedi asthan (place of martrydom) of Baba Hanuman Singh Ji, in memory of a brave leader of the Sikh nation. Baba Ji lived the life of a true Khalsa, and embodied the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. In the immortal words of Bhagat Kabir Ji: ਗਗਨ ਦਮਾਮਾ ਬਾਜਿਓ ਪਰਿਓ ਨੀਸਾਨੈ ਘਾਉ ॥ The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted. ਖੇਤੁ ਜੁ ਮਾਂਡਿਓ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਅਬ ਜੂਝਨ ਕੋ ਦਾਉ ॥੧॥ The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ਸੂਰਾ ਸੋ ਪਹਿਚਾਨੀਐ ਜੁ ਲਰੈ ਦੀਨ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ॥ He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion. ਪੁਰਜਾ ਪੁਰਜਾ ਕਟਿ ਮਰੈ ਕਬਹੂ ਨ ਛਾਡੈ ਖੇਤੁ ॥੨॥੨॥ He may be cut apart, piece by piece, but he never leaves the field of battle.

Priceless, Divine Diamonds - XII Sriman Sant Isher Singh Ji Maharaj Rara Sahib Wale 66. Fifteen ways of strengthening Faith There are fifteen proven ways of strenghtening Faith and improving understanding of the true Self, as told by Sri Shankrachārya Jī. They are expounded upon as follows: Yam (ਯਮ) — Everything is Brahm - A constant awareness of this eternal truth brings one's organs of action and senses under control. This is called Yam. Nem (ਨੇਮ) — Nem is the never-ending realisation that the whole universe and everything in it is nothing but the Absolute, that there is no duality anywhere. Tyāg (ਤਿਆਗ) — Renunciation of worldly perceptions and profound contemplation (abhyās) on the Absolute is true renunciation. Maun (ਮੌਨ) — Self (Atmā) is, by its very nature, without any modifications. This realisation is called true Maun. Ekānt (ਇਕਾਂਤ) — Self is devoid of objective world, It simply is. This is true solitude. ShubKāl (ਸ਼ੁਭਕਾਲ) — The Absolute is inseparable from its creation. This is known as ShubKāl. Ãsan (ਆਸਨ) — The self is present inside, outside and in the centre of everything. This is true Ãsan. Mūlbhandha (ਮੂਲਬੰਧ) — The primal cause behind creation of this world is the Self. This realisation is called Mūlbhandha. Samāntā (ਸਮਾਨਤਾ) — To consider profound contemplation as representation of the Absolute and to merge it in the Supreme Spirit is true Samānta. Drishtī (ਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ) — To see everything in this universe as the Absolute is true Drishtī. Prāṇāyāma (ਪ੍ਰਾਣਾਯਾਮ) — Any modification of the mind is nothing but another form of the Absolute - This fixity is Prāṇāyāma. Prati'āhāra (ਪ੍ਰਤਿਆਹਾਰ) — Even the five vices of the sense organs are forms of Absolute. This is Prati'āhāra. Dhārna (ਧਾਰਨਾ) — Anything that mind see, thinks and contemplates is nothing else but the Absolute. This is called Dhārna. Dhayān (ਧਿਆਨ) — Everything is All-complete Supreme Spirit. This is called Dhayān. Samādhī (ਸਮਾਧੀ) — When the worldly perception drops, vision of the Absolute take its position. This is true Samādhī. Profound contemplation (Abhayās) of above points rapidly brings about fixity on the Supreme Spirit. Hence, it is necessary to drop all family attachments, respect, fame, and laxity in order to achieve liberation while being in physical body, and ultimate merge in the infinite ocean of Supreme Bliss. 67. Untitled Question: Why is that even those who have realised the Self still appear to undergo physical suffering? Answer: The illusory appearence of objective world is because of ignorance (Avidya). For instance, in darkness a piece of rope appears to be snake. The instant darkness disappears, the mistake is realised and true nature of the rope becomes apparent. Similarly, when the veil of ignorance is lifted, a profound realisation takes place and the only reality that exists then is the Absolute, and nothing else. Ignorance is of two types: Mūl Avidya, and Lesha (or Tula) Avidya. Mūl Avidya is the primal ignorance that causes repetitive cycle of birth and death. It is destroyed the instant one comes under the sanctuary of Sri Guruji, and with it ends the cycle of birth, death and rebirth. What is left behind is the physical body, which will undergo changes in accordance with one's prarbadha (the set of past actions that have to be dispensed with in this lifetime). This is because of Lesha Avidya; it is what makes wise ones do acts of compassion. Deep down in their mind, however, they are fully aware of the fact that this duality is only confined to the physical body, and that the Self (Atma) is completely untouched by all this, and remains established in Itself. 68. Jnāni (the Liberated one) ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥ Sorath 9th Guru. ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਦੁਖ ਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਨਹੀ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਸੁਖ ਸਨੇਹੁ ਅਰੁ ਭੈ ਨਹੀ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਕੰਚਨ ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਨੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The man, who in pain, feels not pain, who is affected not by pleasure, love and fear and deems gold as dust. Pause. ਨਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਨਹ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ॥ ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਆਰਉ ਨਾਹਿ ਮਾਨ ਅਪਮਾਨਾ ॥੧॥ He who is swayed not by slander or, praise and who suffers not from greed, worldly love or pride, and who remains unaffected by joy or sorrow and who cares not about honour or dishonour; ਆਸਾ ਮਨਸਾ ਸਗਲ ਤਿਆਗੈ ਜਗ ਤੇ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਰਾਸਾ ॥ ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਜਿਹ ਪਰਸੈ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਵਾਸਾ ॥੨॥ and he who renounces all hope and yearning, remains desire-free in the world, and whom lust and wrath touch not, within his mind abides the Lord. ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਜਿਹ ਨਰ ਕਉ ਕੀਨੀ ਤਿਹ ਇਹ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੀਨ ਭਇਓ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿਉ ਜਿਉ ਪਾਨੀ ਸੰਗਿ ਪਾਨੀ ॥੩॥੧੧॥ The man, who is blessed with the grace of the Guru, understands, he, the way to this. He, O Nanak, blends with the World-Lord, as water mingles with water. (Sri Ang 633, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj) Liberated is one for whom three physical states - Waking (Jagrati), Dreaming (svapan), and Deep sleep (Sushuptī) are the same. Waves of ocean originate, last for some time, and then disappear. These states are nothing but different forms of the same ocean. Similarly, the Self takes on the form of the mind, and waking and dreaming states are its two amusements. Everything that happens during these two states is only omnipresent Supreme Self's play. Therefore, waking, dreaming, and deep sleep states are nothing but the Non-Dualistic, formless Self that is beyond any modifications. 69. State of the world The perception of objective world is because of ignorance. Ignorance is what creates and sustains our world. When ignorance ends, the idea of space, time, objects and mind, all disappear and there is total absence of all perception. Ignorance, Ishwar's play, māyā and lack of knowledge have more or less the same meaning. This play of Ishwar possesses immense power. In an instant, it creates illusion in the form of space, time, objects and sense organs, and in the next instant, all these disappear, only to be replaced by some totally different perception. This happens in the physical states of waking and dreaming, and this play is famously known as the "world". ਨਟੂਐ ਸਾਂਗੁ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਬਾਜੀ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਖਿਨੁ ਪਲੁ ਬਾਜੀ ਦੇਖੀਐ ਉਝਰਤ ਨਹੀ ਬਾਰਾ ॥੪॥ This world play is fashioned like the mimicry of a buffoon. For a moment and trice one sees the show but it takes no time in disappearing. (Sri Ang 422, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj) ਬਾਜੀਗਰ ਡੰਕ ਬਜਾਈ ॥ ਸਭ ਖਲਕ ਤਮਾਸੇ ਆਈ ॥ When the magician beats his tembourine, the whole public turn up to see the play. ਬਾਜੀਗਰ ਸ੍ਵਾਂਗੁ ਸਕੇਲਾ ॥ ਅਪਨੇ ਰੰਗ ਰਵੈ ਅਕੇਲਾ ॥੨॥ When the magician winds up his play, then all alone he enjoys his revelments. (Sri Ang 655, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj) ਐਥੈ ਗੋਇਲੜਾ ਦਿਨ ਚਾਰੇ ॥ ਖੇਲੁ ਤਮਾਸਾ ਧੁੰਧੂਕਾਰੇ ॥ ਬਾਜੀ ਖੇਲਿ ਗਏ ਬਾਜੀਗਰ ਜਿਉ ਨਿਸਿ ਸੁਪਨੈ ਭਖਲਾਈ ਹੇ ॥੯॥ Man only stays four days (short time) in this pasture-land, and he revels and sports in utter darkness. Like mumbling in the night's dream, the jugglers have left the world, after staging their play. (Sri Ang 1023, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj) 70. Essence of Gurbani and Vedānta The essence of (Advait) Vedānta is that the Absolute only was, is and will be. Nothing else has the potential of existing outside of the Absolute. Gurbani also stresses on the same thing - ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਈ ॥ Everything is the Lord everything is the Lord. There is nothing but God, the world -sustainer. (Sri Ang 485, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj) If there is anything that appears separate from Gobind, it is mind, duality, ignorance, maya, or lack of knowledge. Because of ignorance, world appears like a mirage in the sky. When mind disappears, only one limitless sky-like Absolute will be realised. What is mind? It is thought. And thought is like sky, and sky is void and empty. Only nothingness then pervades. For instance, a ruby shines in different hues of the colour red. A darker hue hides the redness of the ruby and the objects visible through it. However, a bright red hue accentuates the redness and its translucency appears restored. Similarly, the Supreme Self has infinite powers - when the power of ignorance comes forth, neither the Self nor the Its infinite capacities are visible. Conversely, when the light of Knowledge arrives, the Self becomes profoundly evident, and the objective world and everything that happens in it appears nothing more than It's magical play. All Is God God Is All … to be continued … Link to Part I - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part I Link to Part II - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part II Link to Part III - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part III Link to Part IV - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part IV Link to Part V - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part V Link to Part VI - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part VI Link to Part VII - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part VII Link to Part VIII - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part VIII Link to Part IX - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part IX Link to Part X - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part X Link to Part XI - Priceless, Divine Diamonds - Part XI Here is a direct link to the pdf file of the above entries - Entries 66-70 Gurprasad.pdf Guru Roop Sangat Jeo, please forgive this moorakh for all the mistakes made in the post Dhanvaad! Gurfateh! :happy2:

I need to follow this ^ Pure wisdom.

To Curious Singh... Dude just keep kissiiinggggg!!!!!

Sounds like a bit of depression to me. It maybe a phase u are through. If you cannot cope with you dont need to find a baba in human form, you need to see a doctor. The only real babaji is Maharaj ji, go to them and do ardas for yourself. Waheguru is the only one that Will help, and professionals are also sent by them to help us. Dont get involved in all this baba and that baba can do this that. And dont waste your money on pakhandi babe. Do simran and see a doc.

The story of 32,000 Nihangs suddenly appearing in Patiala after the battle of Sabraon doesn't ring true. If it was a band of a few hundreds then that seems more likely. An army of 32,000 could have disrupted the British lines of communication and cut off the British army just as they were about to cross the Satluj. Going into British territory and then into Patiala state doesn't seem to have been a good strategy when the British had only won a few battles and there were still 30,000 odd Khalsa army troops in the territory of the Lahore Durbar. Why leave the safety of your own territory and then venture into the territory of the the Maharaja who had just helped the British against your state? If the event happened after the second Anglo-Sikh war then that is more likely as the British had annexed the Punjab. After sabraon the British also would not have many troops in Patiala state or nearby as their next step was to cross the Satluj and they would have relied on the Maharaja of Patiala to keep their lines of communication open.

The strenght of the Nihang Singhs was about 4,000 active soldiers who fought in the campaigns with the main Khalsa army. Cunningham reproduced the Khalsa army structure in his book History of the Sikhs from the Darbar records. The Nihangs fought bravely in the defence of the Sikh state and most were killed at the Battle of Sobroan in 1846 so it would have been difficult to amass large numbers afterwards. A lot ordinary Sikhs did fight alongside the the main Sikh army as well so they could increase numbers by a few thousand, Those Nihangs were on a different level from many of those today where today we see Guru Gobind Singh Ji being ridiculed daily by fake Babas, Cults and indirectly by the Government but no action is taken by the Nihangs.

Best books are probably by Hari Ram Gupta who wrote History of the Sikhs and Surjit Singh Gandhi 'Struggle of the Sikhs for sovereignity' and 'Sikhs in the eighteenth century'. There are lot of books written by British travellers and officials during the 19th century but you need to be weary of the bias

Didnt i tell you to get yourself sorted out...your blatant hatred and dislike for nihangs is unhealthy...i suggest you see a doctor about it if you call this a lie....please tell me how a akaali fauj numbering in the tens of thousands dwindled to low as a few hundred nihangs in the space of a few decades...if they were not hunted down and persecuted...please tell me how they become a powerful force to facing extinction.... read coloner steinbachs account on nihaangs and how he loathed them and wished for their extinction...what do you think he told the british to do when he switched sides?...practically all accounts written in that time frame from westerners is of dislike for the akaalis...they were hated because they were the only group who would not tolerate the firangi... This was an honest post about the memeory of jathedar baba hanuman singh ji...and you have to come on here in an attempt to destroy his legacy and put his name in the mud...clear off if you have nothing positive to say

bro I heard that around the Khalsa Raaj period, the caste system was virtually eroded, but after the British took over, the reintroduced the system as a method of divide and rule, which remains until today. How much of this is true?

Like it or not, we certainly do have a caste problem. Although everyone does it to some extent but Jats seem to do it the most. I can see a non Amritdhari practicing caste discrimination, but I can never understand how and why Amritdharis practice caste based discrimination. This is the worst type of practice equal in my opinion to the 4 krahits. Maharaj Sumath Bakshan Sikh Kaum noon because the Sikh kaum is doing so many things against Gurmat.

=] Thank you veerji!

It's not a matter of whether the story is propogated by the UK n.angs or the Nihangs in India. It is about whether the story has an basis in reality. Maharaja Ranjit Singh had clipped the power of the Nihangs after Akali Phula Singh. so much so that the majority had shifted to Anandpur Sahib from Amritsar. Hence the possibilty that there are two mountains in the picture of Hanuman Singh implying that he would have spent most of his in the hills or that his base was there. We need to understand that an armed force of 15,000 or if we go by Nihang oral tradition 32,000 is a large number for that time. This was a time when a minor skirmish of even a few hundred men would have been seen as a great battle. I doubt there was even 1/10 of that number of Nihangs in the whole of Punjab at that time. Wheneve Nihangs were mentioned by travellers at that time they were always mentioned as being small bands. Taken together these bands would probably have constituted a few thousand men in total. Also the event was after the major battles had taken place between the Khalsa army and the British, The Nihang numbers would have been depleted further due to the deaths in battle. I am not saying that a minor skirmish might have taken place between the Patiala Maharaja and the Nihangs but the number quoted are clearly a fantasy. As for the assassination attempt on Maharja Ranjit Singh, a British traveller, I forget who mentions at attempt while he was in the Maharaja's camp. In the attempt the Nihang had stuck the guard with a sword and cut off his nose. The Maharaja, I think then order the Nihang's nose to be cut as well as his ears.

People do come up with fantasy stories especially when it concerns Nihangs. The reasons given for the murderous assault on Maharja Ranjit Singh was due to his allowing the British representatives to enter Punjab. If the Nihangs were so far sighted then why did they not assassinate the Dogras? It was the Lahore army which killed Hira Singh Dogra. The story about Sham Singh Attariwala appears to be an attempt to brush some of the glory of Sham Singh onto Hanuman Singh. Sham Singh had been a great general of the Khalsa army, he was a Jagirdar who would have paid for and supplied a jagirdari contingent to the Khalsa army so he was not exactly without an army as the account claims. The deaths of 15,000 Nihangs at Patiala might have a basis in a minor skirmish between Nihangs and the Patiala Maharaja but really, 15,000 deaths are more than the number that the Khalsa army lost at Sabraon. If Nihang accounts claim that the number was 30,000 then this just shows how fantasy stories are created and then lose even the minor relationship thay they might have had with reality. As for the shoot on sight order against Nihangs this appear to be another fantasy. The British were not exactly shy of committing atrocities but there is no record of a shoot on sight order or even records of atrocities committed against Nihangs. Only a decade later the British committed many atrocities against the mutineers even destroying entire villages where British civilians had been murdered and those records are there for all to see.

Terrible...its about time everytone gets involved in some form of parchaar when they are in punjab...no point going there and sitting in the pind..need western well knowledged gursikhs going over and bringing sikhi to the masses... there is no high and low caste in the sikh panth..there is only one caste and that is kshatri khalsa...no distinction within the khalsa at all...all are equal...these punjabi pendus are dragging sikhi in the mud

Johnny bro please don't change the subject to meat or dastar style, we can discuss that somewhere else, I don't think it's appropriate to compare something like bhang to that. Also the dastar style has not changed at all. What most Sikhs find it hard to get through their mindsets is that you need to look at history with the scope of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to fully understand it. Just because something took place (IT COULD BE A GURMAT THING), but if you do it just because puratan Singhs/Kaurs did it, it is nothing but mere ritualism. Talking about these things is pointless, even more pointless is trying to say there's bhang maryada or something ridiculous like that. Unrelated reference to dastar of Singhs of old:

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh To help with this question, go back to Guru Nanak Dev Ji's experience with Bhai Lalo. He ate with Bhai Lalo, not because Bhai Lalo was a 'Sikh' or a particular caste, but because he was an honest, humble person with a beautiful soul. To say that Sikhs should only eat from the hands of other Sikhs is the same as saying Brahmins can only eat from Brahmins. This completely erases the values of Gurbani. True Sikhs do not segregate people based on their religion or their caste or their nationality or any other thing. What we do is use our Bibek Buddhi (discriminatory intelligence) to keep the company of those people who reflect the values of the Guru i.e. honesty, integrity and humility. It is very naive to assume that all Amritdharis hold these values and therefore we must eat only from Amritdharis. There will be many non-Amritdharis and non-Sikhs who actually live a better 'Sikh' jeevan than Amritdharis do. Btw, the two quotations you have linked refer to immoral people and those who have dishonoured their Guru. This is not the same as good people or those who are attempting to follow their faith. Guru Nanak Dev Ji didn't eat with Malik Bhago because his food was a direct consequence of bad actions, not because he was not of the same religion/status as Guru Nanak Dev Ji. It's hard to understand how we have gotten to the stage where we think that Guru Nanak Dev Ji would have said 'I won't eat with you Bhai Lalo because you are not a Gursikh like me.' These are merely my opinions, on the basis of what Guru Ji has shown me through their ten jeevans and Gurbani. There will be many who disagree, but where I see Guru Ji's values being misrepresented, resulting in our youth being misled, it is necessary to speak. vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

it reads God is One at the start so what part of that don't these bibi understand??? like why would they go pray all the different baby gods + godesses instead??? :stupidme:

I don't remember or recall anything about Guri Ji asking Bhai Sahib Singh, Bhai Dharam Singh, Bhai Himmat Singh, Bhai Mokam Singh and Bhai Daya Singh to bring their wives, before they could take amrit or telling them their wives should now take amrit.

Oh okay! I guess it's like when I was a kid "bad" meant "good". So "sick" means "good" these days? My word.... :blink2: :biggrin2:

Guru ji gave shaheedi for righteousness... in other words dharam..... it was the right thing to do to protect whats sacred to someone... doesnt mean we have to believe in those things.. guru ji gave his life to prove a point i am not saying you are saying that its okay to but people tend to justify hindu things many times my saying guru ji gave shaheedi for them..?? that really annoys me.. thats why some sikhs question why balpreet singh veerji and other sikhs stood up for pardah/hijab/nikaab...... its simply because there should be FULL freedom of religion..

Hmmm.... I'm wondering, if Guru Sahib wasn't in the house, we would go on chatting away and watching TV and all that, right? But isn't Vaheguru always there? We don't think twice about that though. Technically we are all walking gurduaras. Our bodies are the gurduaras, and our aim is to have Parkash of Guru Sahib wthin. We respect so much the gurduaras that we have built, but we don't think twice aboout ignoring the gurduaras that Akal Purakh has built. So even if there isn't a sarup of Guru Sahib at home, should we just pretend that Guru Sahib isn't there at all?