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Bhai Sahib, I am always reluctant to post on such topics because Sikhs are not mentally and spiritually equipped to deal with such subjects. Every jatha and group picks their best guy and elevates him to God’s perfection where he is never wrong and disagreement with him is seen as belittling and insulting him. This is why no matter how genuine the saroop may be, Sikhs will think of mool mantar and Raag Maala and call it authentic/unauthentic based on this alone. Instead of changing their own beliefs they will blame the saroop. They pay no attention to correcting printing errors in saroops or correcting the position of the mangals or looking at other subjects. All they care about is first paragraph and the last Ang like there exists nothing else in between. Very few Sikhs are genuinely interested in finding original saroops shedding their own beliefs and bias. Regarding original Damdami Bir Sahib – The picture posted is not from the original Bir. I believe the Bir was not lost during the great holocaust because only Giani Gian Singh introduced this theory without any evidence. This not new information. Most Sikhs just don't know about it. Prin. Harbhajan Singh, Giani Garja Singh and others have done research in this matter and they believed the original Bir still exists. We have seen original saroops being tampered with by Sikhs during Raag Maala debate and I do not wish the fate of Damdami Bir to be the same. We need to learn to be united despite our differences and only then can we make any progress.

Agreed. But this is our heritage. Do you not have pride/love for your history? In order to walk, we must put 1 foot forward but the other remains behind. Without our heritage, there is no moving forward. Conservation of our heritage is something we have little understanding of in our community. We need to wake up at some point

There is not even one pre singh sabha translations which supports your translations its ridiculous..do check farid kot teeka, read pandit narian singh dasam granth teeka...the first time i realized how insecure neo tat khalsa were, when i read your sarbloh granth translations regarding gyan and bhagti ..its literally showed how desperate/insecure you were regarding your wrapped neo tat khalsa idealogy that you have adhere to...you made up as you went all along, ... I call spade a spade as i see there is systematic brainwashing of youths making them more self absorbed in their vanity false pride and i choose to uphold old traditional gurmat than reformist one... there is no down playing there is no beating around bushes...we hosted all types of right wing/left nut jobs on sikhawareness so we know all different types. You have nothing else to offer against same old crap against vedas by rejecting all of it, if you reject theological framework of vedas-vaishvanvas/vishiadvaita/advaita-vedant you are inadvertently rejecting gurbani aspects- advait/bhagti aspect in gurmat as its theological/etmology framework is one and same. Ultimate Bhram/divine expereince of sikh saints and hindu saints is one and same, bhramgyan avastha- turiya avastha/turiya atith avastha is one and same. I have spent good time with hindu collegue freinds, build up dialogue with them (patch up interfaith relationship which neo khalistanis destroyed) regarding sikhi/indic snatan dharma at work and also read upanishads/vedas- essence message is very similiar, those hindus at work are at advance level meditation practitioners, none of them beleive in crap you demonize them.

Benti in the charan of Admin. Could this post be pinned. Many thanks. Vairag Shatak Raja Bharthari lived in Ujjain Nagar around two and a half thousand years ago. He was born in a high kul {lineage} who was a vidhwan pandit {scholar}. He was fair and just towards all his subjects and as such was much loved by all the parja {citizens}. His father’s name has been recorded in Rajavali as Raja Gandarbh Sann but mother’s name has been omitted and it is written that he was in fact born to a dasi {servant girl}. The raja had been married three or four times already but when he heard the kirti {praises} of a mahan sundar rajkumari {very beautiful princess}, he married her too. The name of this rani was Pingla. Her magical beauty and gunn {attributes} captivated the raja in such a way that he became her gulam {slave}. Just as the commands of Noor Jahan had a hold over Badshah Shah Jahan , this was the same scenario with raja Bharthari. Pingla feared none since the king Bharthari was under her “spell”. She wandered around sutantar {independently}, without fear, and as such fell in love with the astbal droga {stable master}. The rani had a devarr {husband’s younger brother}, who considered his elder brother raja Bharthari as a father figure and the rani as a mother. He obeyed their every order with utmost loyalty. The maharajah had given him the post of Pardan Mantri {Prime Minister}, the duties of which he carried out with great splendour. His name was Veer Vikramaditya, he is the same Mahapursh {great soul} who later came to be known as the famous Maharajah Bikramjit. The samat calendar is still used in his memory even today. Vikramditya was the first to have suspicions regarding the vibchar {adultery} of rani Pingla. After much deliberation he finally informed his brother raja of the misdeeds of rani Pingla. The raja was so besotted with Pingla that he took offence and as such reprimanded his own brother for saying such a thing. The raja went as far as to say that it is because you are my younger brother that I shall remain quiet otherwise I would have had you hanged. The raja considered his rani to be the supreme satti savitri {a lady who was the epitome of high moral character}. When Pingla found out about this confrontation she began to show even more love towards the raja. After some days she made a request to the raja, “your younger brother Vikramjit is like a son to me and I have always tried to be a mother to him but he looks at me in a lustful manner. Any other female would have succumbed to his advances by now! It is me who has evaded this terrible situation. He has made every attempt to defile me, and not only me, he has in fact destroyed the satt dharam {purity} of many women in this kingdom. It was only a few days ago that he attempted to lure the noh {daughter-in-law} of the Brahmin with the assistance of dootia {maids etc.} but she like me too is a pattibratta {faithful woman} and as such resisted his intentions. I implore you to stay alert and be very wary about such an adharmi {unscrupulous} man. I do not want you to be in any danger from him.” Upon hearing this the Maharajah took every word to be the utmost truth. Then rani Pingla called the Brahmin and said “are you aware that the Maharajah is is in my total control and if you desire your well being then follow my instructions to the full. Go to the Maharajah and make a pukar {plea}, if you don’t then I shall have you tortured!” The Brahmin knew that the raja was totally smitten by Pingla and as such would only take her word against any other. “I will obey your every command” replied the Brahmin to rani Pingla. Pingla told the Brahmin ”go to the raja’s court and make a faryad {plea}! and when he asks you what is the matter, you reply that kumar{prince} Bikramjit wants to engage in immorality with my noh {daughter-in-law} and if you are prepared to allow this than I shall leave your nagar {kingdom} and go elsewhere. I cannot stand by and allow my izatt {respect} and istri dharam {chaste} to be destroyed in this way.” “Also remember that you must not succumb to the raja in any way!” Upon hearing this the Brahmin went to see the Maharajah the very next day and cried his dilemma {which the rani taught him} with immense reality. The Maharajah filled with krodh {anger} upon hearing his words. Without padtal {investigation} the maharajah immediately ordered the des nikala {expulsion} of his younger brother from his kingdom. Bikramjit accepted his maharajah brother’s edict with love, patience, and without complain. He immediately went home and gathered his family and promptly left the kingdom. At the same time another situation occurred. One day a Brahmin arrived in the raj darbar {king’s court} and began to tell the raja that “twenty five years earlier I made a dridh sankulp {strict devotion} to do tapp {endurance} in order to appease the Devta {deity}, the devta gave me an Amar Phall {fruit that gives eternal life}. I have come here with that phall, my wife won’t eat it herself nor will she let me eat it. She says that we are poor and persistent poverty will be harder to manage. We only desire death now so that we may escape our hardships. If we eat the amar phall then we shan’t die and as a result will have to endure more hardship. That is why it is my wish that you take the amar phall so that you can continue to rule your kingdom in the most benevolent way and in return you can give us wealth which will eradicate our suffering.” Upon hearing this from the Pandit Rajah Bharthari he took the amar phall in exchange for an abundance of wealth, which pleased the Brahmin immensely. The rajah didn’t eat this fruit himself but gave it to his beloved rani Pingla. The rani thought that it would be deceitful of her to eat the fruit, so when the rajah left she summoned her lover and promptly gave him the fruit. The lover did not eat the fruit either but gave it instead to his favourite prostitute. The prostitute accepted the fruit but began to contemplate her lifestyle “I have sinned all my life, destroyed many marriages etc. If I eat this fruit and become amar {eternal} then this is all I will endure {lustful activities}. It is better that I give this fruit to the Maharajah instead, in whose raj he has given me so many pleasures.” After contemplating this with all sincerity she presented the fruit to the Maharajah. The maharajah was first stunned upon seeing the fruit but then asked the vesvah {lady of the night} where she had obtained this fruit from? Upon being interrogated by Bharthari the veshvah told the whole story truthfully “Your astbal droga {stable master} is my mitr {lover}, he gave it to me.” The raja immediately summoned the droga {stable master} and asked how he became in possession of the fruit? The drogra fell at the rajah’s feet and narrated the whole scenario of how he engaged in immorality with his rani Pingla. As soon as the Maharajah heard the whole story, he immediately filled with nafarat {hatred} of the rani and the world in general. He became fully vairag {total renunciation}. He immediately summoned the maha mantri {prime minister} and said; “look after this raj {kingdom} I am leaving. Bikramjit suffered pains owing to my decision to expel him. Call him back and place him on the throne.” As soon as he had given these instructions he immediately removed the robes that adorned his body. He covered his body with a solitary sheet as he left to join Gorakh. Maharajh Bharthari first wrote “Shingar Shatak” and during his reign wrote “Neeti Shatak” and after attaining vairag {renunciation} he wrote “Vairag Shatak” in which he describes the state of his mind. “Vairag Shatak” Granth was written in Brijj language by the great scholar Kavi Pandit Har Dyal Ji of Choonia Nagar. The Punjabi translation has been undertaken by Pandit Naryan Singh Gyani.

Following are some beautiful words of Dhan Guru Baba Nanak Dev Maharaj, in Raag Maajh, conveying us the basic truths of Gurmat : ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ Guramathee Aap Gavaae Naam Dhhiaaeeai गुरमती आपु गवाइ नामु धिआईऐ Through the Guru's Teachings, eliminate ego, by meditating on Naam. ਦੂਜੀ ਕਾਰੈ ਲਗਿ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਈਐ Dhoojee Kaarai Lag Janam Gavaaeeai दूजी कारै लगि जनमु गवाईऐ Undertaking any other task, they waste their lives in vain. Raag Maajh, Guru Nanak Dev With the first line, Guru Sahiban is telling us that, through Gurmat, we can eliminate our ego, our haume, our bondages, our attachments with this mayavee and perishable creation, which so much we love; to the extent, that we sacrifice our lives, such as .... in the name of my land, my caste, my creed...and thus our lives are wasted away. We run constantly after shadows of this world, by turning away our faces away from where the Light cometh. We are like bats, in the darkness of this kali yug, such as rites, rituals, pilgrimages, fasting, rules and regulations, we open our eyes wide open. But when it comes to Nam Simran, we say, no no, that alone is not sufficient, we must do some more things, in order to be better followers of our path. But then in the next line, in order to remove all our fears, all our brahams, He clearly says: apart from Nam Bhakti, anything we may do, however good it may appear to be, is as good as to waste away one´s life....means it has no value, as per our goal in pursuing our union with the almighty Akal Purukh.

http://youtu.be/JSqqul-ecMM

Kalgidhar Trust - Baru Sahib Time to cast your VOTES! Two videos from Baru Sahib produced by Babli Singh, Shemaroo find Nominations to Punjab's Biggest Awards - PTC Punjabi Music Awards 2014! Calling out loud for the visible form of the love and appreciations you showed at the time of release of these videos, Vidya Vichari and Guru Ki Kashi through your votes. Take time out and cast your vote here - http://goo.gl/AWL71D or Type the short code - BVN 6 and BNR 2 and SMS on 56060. Eg: Type sms BVN6 and send it on 56060." Let's make it BIG this time... Watch the videos here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UHA44ASt60 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjxGsqrvs8 Source - https://www.facebook.com/BaruSahibHP/photos/a.312356885474161.72764.294820193894497/689448821098297/?type=1&relevant_count=1

Let us see the importance of Nam and Shabad, from the pure paviter Bani. In Raag Sorath, Sree Guru Amar Das tells us: sabday man tan nirmal ho-aa har vasi-aa man aa-ee. Through the Shabad, my mind and body have been purified, and the Lord has come to dwell within my mind. That in order to get my mind and body purified, I need not eat, drink or wear anything special, nor need to go on teeraths ishnan : bathing at pilgrimages, nor any moortee poojas....nothing of that sort; no rites nor rituals, which are good only in the eyes of men, means society or community. He says that Shabad or its devotionas Nam Simran, is enough to purify my body and also my mind from all it´s evil tendencies like: kam, krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar, choree, chuglee .....etc In one word, Nam is the one remedy for all maladies, for any shortcomings. Why? Because it has the power of Wahiguru contained in it. Then He says: sabad na jaaneh say annay bolay say kit aa-ay sansaaraa. Those who do not know the Shabad are blind and deaf; why did they even bother to come into the world? Again we see, He does not say, you must perform so and so set of rituals or rites. He stresses only on Nam. He goes to the extent to say: if you are born as a human being and you do not come to know and practice Nam or Shabad, why were you born even? We must bear in mind that these Guru Sahibans, Gurmukhs, Sant Janas, come from that region, where only Nam pervades, and that is known as Sach Khand, and so, coming from there, naturally they can not bind us with anything else which is not Nam. Let us take the Bani, of any Gurmukh of the status of Guru Amar Das, we shall find similarities, they are the embodiment of Shabad, and thus tell us the same, that if you want to be only one with Wahiguru , then do Nam bhakti only, otherwise you are free to do anything else you may want, but that will not take you to His abode, but keep you prisoner in this mayavee, perishable creation. He goes to the extent, to call us blind. Why? Because we are blinded by agyanta, by manmukhta, by maya...we are very much engrossed in outer rituals, outer actions which are futile in spirituality, though we maybe very important in the eyes of our community. We have to please Wahiguru, not the wordly people who are blind just as we are. And pleasing Wahiguru, means to sing His glory, and be totally absorbed in His devotion, through His rememberance, His meditation, His "anter mukh dhyan..." We are no better than anybody, but if by His Grace we know something about Him, we should gently help and share it with our brothers, sisters, our fellowmen, which are His souls just as much as we are His. Though there is no guarantee that they will belive or trust you, they may even question you, and tell you that you are crazy, or even abuse you. But neverthless, we should speak the truth, and let His Truth expand in the universe. Anyhow, we stupid worldly people, do not even spare our beloved Guru Sahibans, we abuse them physically and verbally, just because, they speak the Truth, which our dirty and polluted minds fail to grasp it, and it does not telly with our erroneous preconcepts. Because we tend our search for that Truth outwards and in outer objects and things, while they always direct our attention inwards, where He has kept Himself for each and everyone of us in His Shabad swaroop, without any distinctions and limitations. We easily judge in haste, when we ourselves are just moorakhs. Waheguru Jee.

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥ Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal. ਦਫਤਰਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਤਬ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ ॥੧੮੭॥ When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then? ||187|| ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥ Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt. ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥ Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188|| 99% of humans fail to put themselves in others' shoes and have empathy, compassion, treat others like we want to be treated, etc. The dairy and meat industries cannot exist without current conditions. The price of dairy and meat would go up through the roof if all cows/animals were fed organic grass/grains, were free-roaming, allowed to live full natural lives, etc. The price of dairy/meat products would go up more than 1000% and the demand would decrease at least 1000%, and therefore the industries and economy would collapse. The amount of land/resources needed for the animals and the amount of time it would take for animals to naturally reproduce would be too 'costly'. The only way these industries can exist as an industry, is if it is a factory system (like it currently is). Conveyer belts, production lines, cages, improper feeding, improper handling of animals, no compassion, etc. ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥ Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||

Jeez generalise much?! We're not all "honey sings"

To do justice to the teachings of our Guru Sahibans, some gems in the lines below are been brought from the Bani at the seva of the Sangat. Justice in the sense, that it is only Gurmat, without the mixture of any "maanmat". And in these lines we can see, that to attain salvation, to get freed from the cycle of births and deaths, and not to have to face Dharam Rai, thus union with Akal Purukh, only one word is mentioned, only one practice is required, nothing else counts....no karmas, no rites, no rituals, no pilgrimages....nothing else is as important as Nam bhakti. Why? Because if our intention is to get connected with Him, and not to get entangled with worldly affairs, like politics, mazab, dharam, caste, creed, idol worship.....according to our Guru Sahibans, only Nam is the requirement, only Nam is essential.....if we do that, we have done everything, if not, then we have lost our soul in the Mahabhavsagar. And for that such a big loss, the fault is totally ours. We have the best school: Gurmat. The best teachers: Guru Sahibans. And then too if we fail to follow their teachings, not only that but adulterate it, manipulate it, with so many other things...then who is responsible? Is it Wahiguru? No never ever. Only we moorakhs. They tell us to do only one thing, but we prefer to do many many more, because that is how the picture has been shown to us, and it shall continue going, unless each one of us, takes each word from the Bani as Sat Bachan, and follow it literally. So let us pay attention with care and love to the words of our Guru Sahibans, in this case, below are the words of fourth Patshahee, Sree Guru Ram Das Maharaj, in Raag Maaroo. Jin har har naam na chayti-o say bhaagheen mar jaa-ay. Those who do not remember the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, are most unfortunate, and are slaughtered. o-ay fir fir jon bhavaa-ee-ah mar jameh aavai jaa-ay. They wander in reincarnation, again and again; they die, and are re-born, and continue coming and going. o-ay jam dar baDhay maaree-ah har dargeh milai sajaa-ay. Bound and gagged at Death's Door, they are cruelly beaten, and punished in the Court of the Lord. Waheguru Jee.

Neo, you are the biggest tribal-promoting person out of anyone..... You are the very definition of "Galee Asee Changeeyaa.....". Your hatred for certain groups/individuals is out of control, that you write garbage online to brainwash people. I have reported many of your messages MANY TIMES, however you are put above everyone else on this website and get treated specially because you have some sort of relationship with admin/mods. WHAT A JOKE! You couldn't even meet Harpreet Singh/AKJ in person or talk decently online, and you're talking about INTERFAITH patching? Learn to patch with fellow GurSikhs first and remove your hatred.... AND SO THAT ADMIN DOESN'T BAN ME FOR STANDING UP TO THIS GUY, HERE IS PROOF OF HIS NEGATIVITY WITHIN THIS THREAD ALONE: Neo, you have turned this whole forum into pure politics. It's SO FUNNY how luckysingh99 likes your posts all the time for the past many months. Before he used to be GurdeepJohal's right-hand missionary man....when he disappeared, and you unnecissarily had a conflict with me (and got me banned for no reason), then luckysingh99 started liking all of your posts...because it was me who stood up to Lucky and Johal against their hardcore missionary mindset. What a joke this whole thing is. You are the creator of tribal mindset atmosphere. Look at yourself in the mirror 100 million times before throwing labels out. You think Viyakaran/grammer isn't that important? If you were infront of Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee, he would DESTROY YOU in this topic. You have such ego, go do Sangat with real Gursikhs, then you will see the reality. Just because someone doesn't have 'Baba' or 'Sant' infront of their name, doesn't mean that they are worthless...They are the real gems.

One thing you can start doing is tell your non-Sikh/non-Punjabi Indian friends/accomplices that Sikh and Indian are two different entities, Punjabi and Sikh are two different entities (not all Sikhs are Punjabis), and Punjabi and Indian are two different entities as well. Sorry, I am not trying to cause any division, but there is no harm in claiming your unique identity. Then you can explain to them that its human nature to mock anyone who is different, which is why Indians mock Sikhs. Trust me, the "Sikhs are not Indian" theory will cut so deep inside their consciousness that the next time they say/hear/read a Sardar joke, they will NOT find it that humorous anymore. I don't vouch for hurting someone who hurts you, but at times you have to put people in their place.

Melbourne Akhand Kirtan Smagam 2014 http://singhstation.net/event/melbourne-akhand-kirtan-smagam-2014

Haan ji, the only way to transcendence this is bhagti and see the world as dream and transient for what it is so one is de-attached and see and try to seek absolute truth/ tat gyan of everything in their meditation expereince....sant mahapursh are able to realize the tat gyan of everything so even if there are big difference of opinions between them on scholary/historical aspects etc, its seems like nothing if not little- compare to bigger clear perception of bhramgyan they are always experiencing (for lack of better word) in harmony with everything. Trust me guys, I am no chardi-kalah and have follow very little rehat compares to other chardi-kalah gurmukhs, but with little expereince i have in meditation with gurbani..i can tell you there is definitely ultimate gurmat absolute reality truth existence here and now waiting for each one of us to experience, once even expereince an drizzle of it, one automatically gets drawn towards higher reality than these arguments, one automatically drawns to it and transcendent it...!! In many ways, the very step towards sikhi is very last step which is all is needed before gurbani draws you in automatically..in fact gurbani always draws seeker in once one reads it ... the reason we cannot see or feel as we (our egoic mind of pre conditioning) get in the way with big psychological shield/sheat around it !!!!!

mann

From my perspective the Gurus were against dogmatic belief, but emphasized faith. With faith one gains personal experience and thus liberation. That person is a true Khalsa.

Dont apologise brother. This is a platform for debate And yes, i agree. Humans will be humans. If its not one thing dividing us, we find another thing.

The right question to ask would be which country with sikh organizations in it is India not spying on.

WJKK WJKF Dear sikha, When I do my Paath I generally wash my face and hands before I start. I also get tongue tied when doing the Paath but I resay what I said and then move on and I find it helps you to memorise the mistake and correct it the next time. I'm not an expert and I don't know much lol, but I feel that if you have the opportunity to wash your body before you start Paath, it's fine. If not, it's also fine. I once heard in katha that when one has dirty hands they wash them in water, when ones clothes become dirty they are also able to be cleaned but when ones soul is dirty and blemished, water cannot clean and remove the blemish. The cleanser is naam, wahegurus gurbani via the 10 Shri guru sahibs and the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji. So when you do your Paath, think that you are cleansing your whole body, your mind and your soul. Keep strong and use sikhi to weaken your OCD tendancy, treat it as a category within the 5 vices which we must try and beat.

I would rather listen interpretation of - Bed Katebh Kaho Mat Chuteh, Chuta Jo Na Beechare by sant gyani gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale as it flows with overall position of vedas held by gurbani than listening to reformist black and white abhramic interpretations..anyway we already been through this before...sikhi isn't some cheap insecure faith nor its like jevoh witness Christian missionary faith..!! I put neo tat khalsa ideology same as rss, neo nazi, sharia fascist ideology...only difference is they aren't in power...once they are in power, its the same old bigotry crap with different face lift..!!

What do you mean by rejected - Guru Sahib would never say anything that would hurt the feelings of other religions hence - Bed Katebh Kaho Mat Chuteh, Chuta Jo Na Beechare

WJKK WJKF, Before you go on about fighting the 5 vices I suggest you to search "Basics of Sikhi" on Youtube. There you should watch many of his videos that talk about Amrit ceremony, Sikh Rehat Maryada, and much more. From there you can start little by little and advance slowly. He has videos on learning Gurmukhi too so be sure to check that out too. If you do take Amrit start memorizing the lines and do more naam simran. Then you can advance a bit more. Of course others will have different opinions on what steps you should take. WJKK WJKF

SriGuruGranthSahib Maharajh is full of Bairaag; Gurbaani emphasises the need for detachment, whilst remaining a part of society. The Granth "Vairaag Shatak", or any other Granth will never be on a par with SGGS. Vairaag Shatak gives beautiful examples of the torment caused by over indulgence, and the extreme attachment to materialism. Rajah Bharthari became tyaghi, prior to Baba Nanak coming to earth; hence Bharthari's methods are not completely in line with Gurmat. The bottom line, however, is that Raja Bharthari's vairaag teaches one the signifance and bliss of tyagh; if we take the Granth in the context of Gurbani, then we can benefit from that tremendously. "Vairaag Shatak", amongst many other sanatan Granths have been studied, in conjunction with SGGS Ji, in all the puratan Taksals, and still do so today. Nothing can ever replace SGGS, but the study of sanatan Granths can expand on the teachings contained therein. If my translations have caused any offence, then I apologise unreservedly; my intention is not to replace SGGS, in any way, but to gain a deeper understanding of the philosophy contained within. Thank you for taking the time to point out the error of my ways; at my age, I should not be using this forum, since it is, after all "voice of the youth". A very big heartfelt thanks to the Sangat, and the Admin for allowing to share my views. Waheguru....

yeah I have watched this earlier and what he said in this video made me fan of him..Indeed I never listened him. . indeed he is the only one who figured out this thing nobody else...because SGPC in punjab is money maker itself,,,People do waste time here on useless topics but thanks you...keep on coming with such topics.

ਸਚੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਨੀਸਾਣਿ ਠਾਕ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ Sachai Sabadh Neesaan Thaak N Paaeeai सचै सबदि नीसाणि ठाक न पाईऐ No one blocks the way, of those who are blessed with the Banner of the True Word of the Shabad. Raag Maajh Guru Angad Dev At another place Sree Guru Angad Dev tells us, that if you gather this wealth of Nam, as much as you can, Dharam Rai, can not tax you for it, as when he does so, when one performs good karmas. Neither does he block our way back to Sach Khand, because we are under the protection of His Nam, and in this case, this very Kal or Dharam Rai, bows down in respect and admiration, as that particlar wadbhagee soul, has been chosen by Wahiguru to go back home. The Hukum of Wahiguru, is followed literally throughout the whole of the creation, nobody can resist His power and Mauj.

Some words on devotion or bhakti ਭਗਤ ਕਰਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਚਾਕਰੀ ਜਿਨੀ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ Bhagath Karan Har Chaakaree Jinee Anadhin Naam Dhhiaaeiaa भगत करनि हरि चाकरी जिनी अनदिनु नामु धिआइआ The devotees serve the Lord night and day, they meditate on Naam Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das Here Sree Guru Amar Das is talking us about true devtion, true bhakti. He says, the true devotees serve the Lord, means do the seva of the Lord Wahiguru with their soul, by meditating on Nam. And to do this seva, there are no fixed times, be it day or night, all times are good times to gather the dhan of Nam, as it is the only true wealth we can carry with ourselves, everything else comes within the parametres of karmas, means the jurisdiction of Dharam Rai. There are 4 types of sevas: Tan-body Man-mind Dhan-wealth Surtee-soul. The purpse of seva is to serve selflessly, is to create humility in us, is to purify our minds to an extent. The seva is done to please others by being helpful, by sharing whatever Wahiguru has given us, this creates some type of detachment within us, from the worldly relations and objects. This also makes us more humanitarian and humble. But the highest seva among all, is to serve Wahiguru, is to please Him. And this seva is done by our soul, our surtee, with the jugtee of Nam Simran, by which, we forget our individual identity, "haume", to the extent, that we loose that individual limited identity, and merge in Him, and become Him. Seva is to forget what one is, and keep in mind the objective of seva only. And so which other seva is there where you loose yourself completely, as you are totally absorbed in Him? This is the real purpose of seva, to merge in Him, and this can only be achieved,with seva performed by our surtee. Our surtee, is our true self. Our mind, body and wealth are the consequences of our karmas, and that is not our true "we", and they keep changing, plus they are transient and perishable also. So let us ask ourselves, who are we? Are we the body or mind? It is not that we should not do seva with these attributes of mind and body. We should always do good, without any reservations, until our last breath, but we should not confuse ourselves that with it, we shall reach Him. Because it is not our mind or body which has to merge in Him, but our true essence which is our surtee, our soul, which has to merge in Him, and for that only Nam Simran, as means of His seva, will enable us to merge in Him, that is why at each step, our Guru Sahibans throught the Bani have stressed only on Nam Simram, as the only jugtee, from where gyan, dhyan, purity, happiness, bliss, contenement, detachment...and an endless list of virtues can be obtained, as He is the infinite fountain of all virtues. And not only this, but the very Owner of these virtues, will be withdrawn towards us, embracing us, such is the result of the seva done by our surtee, through the bhakti of Nam. What is Nam Simran? It is just surrendering our mind and body to Him. And this is what spirituality is about. Through it, we are telling Him that, I am not, but only You are. Such is His mahanta, such is the mahanta of His Nam. The ray(soul), merges in the Sun(Akal Purukh).

ਜਾ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਨਾਇ ਰਚਾਵਹਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਣੇ ਤੂੰ ਭਾਵਹਿ Jaa Thudhh Bhaavai Naae Rachaavehi Thudhh Bhaanae Thoon Bhaavehi जा तुधु भावै नाइ रचावहि तुधु भाणे तूं भावहि When it pleases You, we are attuned to the Name, and when it pleases You, we become pleasing to You Raag Maajh Guru Nanak Dev In this very line, Guru Sahiban is revealing us, that the sacred practice of Nam Simran, is a privlege. It is a blessing from the Almighty Wahiguru, not anybody can practice it. That is why He says: when it pleases You, means Him, not me, nor we, neither you or they, but only when He wishes so, means we will savour the Nam and merge in the Nam or get attuned into it. That is why when Nam Simran is mentioned, for many of us it is just a concept, so rather we prefer to do other sort of practices. But the fact behind this, is that, we are not to be blamed, because nobody can not go against His "Mauj". It is He who creates that desire in us, to chant His Name. To others He keeps them busy, with their usual traditional practices. To those whom He wants them to get out from this very creation, He blesses them with His Simran, because it is with His Simran alone, that we can merge in Him, that is the purpose of sikhee, that is the purpose of Gurmat.

Actually there was an edict some years ago from the Akal Takht saying that all marriages should be done in gurdwaras only and one is not allowed to do prakash in hotels, etc,etc. There was too much beadbi going on so they had to put in place these strict rules. I have been involved in our gurdwara for the last 15 years and have attended many marriages both on and away from the gurdwara. I would agree with the akal takht decision in this regard, it is beter to do the lavan in the gurdwara where proper respect can be mantained. You see you have your relatives who come for the marriage and you go out of your way to make sure they are taken care of and respected, but the same usually does not go for the treatment of our Guru. Mostly because we don't believe it's our Guru, it is just a ceremony we all do and afterwars the majority of us drink alcohol, etc, etc which are against the tenets of the religion. You see in my involvement in the gurdwara I have learned the raagis and granthis are usually rascals and they will do anything for money, even sell there soul. There are a handfull who are good but you wil always find one who is willing to do anything for money and hence the saroops are taken anywhere. The age old problem. Nor are our people worried about what they are doing.....

The under lying message in Vairaag Shatak is Vairaag {renunciation}; Gurbani stresses the importance of Vairaag, in order to break free from Kaam/krodh/lobh/moh/ahankar. What made India a nation of cowards, was not Vairaag; the thing that made India a nation of sub-servients, was spiritual corruption, the attachment to materialism, and the distancing of folk from self discipline. This Granth teaches one the importance of Vairaag, and the need for self discipline etc. Rajah Bharthari used physical renunciation; becoming a beggar, in essence. Gurmat teaches us to work for a living; to help the needy too, in a charitable manner. The bottom line is VAIRAAG; if it can be learned from this Granth, there is no harm. Anything that distances us from Kaam/krodh/lobh/moh/ahankar, is definitely worth reading..... Waheguru....

First of all khuswant singh was staunchly against golden temple raid by GOI so much so he returned his award to india in protest against operation blue star opreation, and in BBC documentary, his clearly said- bhindranwale fought back like a tiger. Our opinion against people is unbelievable, its so static and rigid and extremely opinionated and does not go hand in hand with opnion changes in different stages in life as everyone see things different and perceive things according to their state..no one seems to care about if he has changed his opinion at his death bed or later stage in his life..we seem to hell bent on bunch of statements one has made in earlier stage in their life and captalize on it and judge one/one's whole 99 years of life based on statements without looking at the possibility of various factors-media negative coverage influence, different stage in life, opinion changes as one grows or matures. We have absolutely no concept of reconciliation or redemption but sikhi does..sikhi beleive one life is spiritual evolution - everyone makes mistakes - Bhullan andhar sabh ko, Abhul Guru Kartar....everyone is capable to grow from mistakes and has right to redeem themselves regardless after paying for actions (good or bad)..hell raja janak emptied the whole hell of sinners as he felt dya towards sinners..everyone is able to reedeem..who are we to judge fully?.... Dharam raja probably thinks of quitting his job as there are many humans who scrambling to act as dharam raja.

nice thought but i had some other sense with my post anyways.. :biggrin2:

And so farewell, Kushwant Singh. You are gone. But your legacy remains. The Indians see us as stupid. Silly. And thick. And its all thanks to you. With the 'Santa Banta' Singh characters you created. The Indians loved you. The Sikhs were indifferent. Wonder why that is? You were always one of them. Never one of us. For one that says he loved drinking whisky whilst listening to gurbani. Me thinks your'e having your comeuppance now.

thats pretty retarded... something punjabi culture would say...

^^ waheguru ji.....raja bhagirath met Guru Nanak Sahib which changed his life and he became a Gursikh. fyi: some sidh jogis like gorakh nath became Guru sahib's followers too. We should not raise our finger at anyone if we don't have enough knowledge about the topic. Bhai Mokham Singh ji is very respected and learned Singh and he has earned this respect with Guru sahib's kirpa.

Hanji, agreed. I support that the point 'more the merrier' and it is always good and high numbers always help (votes,voice etc). However, if we talk that 'more' will put people on track to sikhi is false. Compare both decline in overall sikh population and decline in people following basic code of conduct. Now we need to figure out which one has the sharpest decline years after years. Sgpc or Akal takht sahib needs to stop tours and spend a week without making going out of Amritsar to brainstorm how to improve the transformation of regular Sikh folks into khalsas. Population figures does help but more in social issues.

Sangat Ji, Does anyone have "Kirpa Karo Deen Ke Daate" sung by Bhai Niranjan Singh Ji Jwaddi Kalan? Many thanks.

WJKK WJKF agree with you, it would be good if he realised the other reason why sikhi is on the downfall, him being one of them lol.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH Will get right on it once there are a couple of SGPC sevadaars dispatched to my house to help the wife and I to manage and help raise them...

These guys carrying the kirpan are probably ----- with no knowledge of how to deploy or use shastar they probably have big ---- bellys as well. In answer to your question yes its just pakhand a status symbol..makes them feel special carrying a big kirpan around its probably blunt as well...lol

WJKK WJKF I would like to ask the imam if he remembers his infant years from o months upto 3. Or how much he remembers from his life from the age of 4 upto 6, also if he remembers how it felt the first time he crawled, walked and spoke? Our progression in this life is not remembered fully yet for some reason the imam assumes we should remember our previous millions of lives lol! WJKK WJKF

lol...just saying """practice what you preach"" ..... :excited:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh On September 3rd, 1686 A.D. Baba Ram Rai expressed his desire to Punjab Kaur and other close disciples to sit in a prolonged meditation for at least three days to achieve some spiritual stages for which he had been long aspiring. He asked Punjab Kaur to bolt the door of his room from outside and not permit anyone to disturb his meditation, till the time of three days had elapsed or he himself knocks from within. The mischievous Gurbakhsh, whose evil genius was responsible for Baba Ram Rai's estrangement with his father, and confrontation with his brother whom he loved so dearly at heart, now saw his golden chance to physically annihilate Baba Ram Rai and capture the wealth and power of the ashram. He is described by Sewa Singh in his Shahid Bilas as the most ignoble dunce, a stupid rascal, a corpulent and haughty rogue, and a bull-headed egoist: rnaha agyani, abhimani, tumaltang deha, mughad, kukarmi, hankari. Early the next day, 4th September, Gurbakhsh accused Punjab Kaur of having killed Ram Rai and hidden his body in a room, and conspiring against the durbar with the help of young Guru Gobind Singh. In that state of Nirvikalpa Samadhi (Enstasis) Baba Ram Rai was absolutely unconscious of his body. Gurbakhsh created such a public opinion against Punjab Kaur that with an organized mass of men he rushed to the room where Baba Ram Rai was sitting in deep meditation, broke open the locks and showing his body as a lifeless corpse and after declaring it dead, hurriedly organized the funeral pyre, and placing it on piles of dry wood, he set fire to it. Punjab Kaur sent a messenger to Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj for help, but when Guru Gobind Singh Ji personally arrived with fully armed troops and surrounded the Ashram. Baba Ram Rai's body had been consumed by fire. All criminal minded people who had been instrumental in burning Baba Ram Rai Ji alive while he was in Samadhi, were rounded up, their misdeeds thoroughly investigated and they were severely punished. Punjab Kaur was asked to point out all who had indulged in criminal activities. Everyone was punished according to his crime. In the skirmish that took placed with GurbaJchsh's men about fifty to sixty masands -were killed. But the willy masand Gurbakhsh escaped. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh