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I agree. Do people seriously think that Guru Sahib is quaking with indignation every time some mischievous Hindu or Muslim says something offensive about them or their dharam? Of course not. I think they'll survive a few fruity remarks. You're also right that we are dangerously close to becoming radical Muslim doppelgangers. Come on Panth Khalsa Ji, it is beneath you to be so very thin-skinned. I believe people should be free to say whatever they like about anybody else's religion (or lack thereof) without running the risk of being physically harmed. If your faith is strong enough, confident enough and stable enough, you won't care what anybody has to say about it. Silly films and cartoons won't be enough to set the vein in your forehead throbbing.

The military commander Massa Ranghar of Mandiali village was put in charge of the Darbar Sahib. He was the most active of the Chaudries engaged in capturing and destroying Sikhs. The Harmandir Sahib was turned into a place for debauchery with nauch (dance) girls being housed their for Massa Ranghar entertainment. The use of Naquills (water pipes) was by then a daily practice for Moslems, so the odor and smoke of tobacco, a substance which Guru Gobind Singh had forbidden his Sikhs to use, now filled the halls of the Sikhs' most Holy site, the very rooms where the beloved first Holy book and the SGGS had enjoyed Prakash for years. Alcohol in wine and other forms, forbidden even by the Moslem's own Holy book the Qur'an, now flowed freely as Massa Rangar and his friends enjoyed the dancing and other activities that the nautch girls were famed for. For the Sikhs whose Bani and Holy writings forbid the use of alcohol totally this was one but one more final insult. The news that their sacred Gurdwara was now being used as a Seraglio, with wine and tobacco staining its walls and floors soon fell on the ears of a group of Sikhs living in Jaipur in Rajputana. Bhai Mehtab Singh a GurSikh of Mirankot, a village near Amritsar, was one of the first to hear this alarming news. Astonished and angered by the news he questioned the man who had just relayed the story: "You have heard of this outrage to the sacred place, and yet you still live and go about telling this news to others! Why did you not kill Massa then and there? Is there no Sikh left in Amritsar to avenge this evil?" "No", replied the messenger. "There are no Sikhs there with a greater sense of honor than those who have run away to places like Jaipur in order to save their lives." The messenger's taunt stung Bhai Mehtab Singh, a brave, strong minded and stout bodied young man, like the sting of some deadly dessert scorpion. He bolted up at once, took his sword and said: "I shall go and cut off Massa's head with this sword, and bring it here!" He saddled his horse and got ready to gallop away. A bystander who had heard the news as well Bhai Sukha Singh of the village Mardi Kambo ki offered to go along with him. Mounting their horses, they took off towards Amritsar. When they reached the sacred city, in August 1740 they noted the Mughal outposts, so they took some time to disguise themselves as Muhammadans. They filled two bags with well rounded pieces of broken earthen pots. Each of them placed one of the bags before him on the horse. They looked like harmless Muhammadan Lambardars who had come to pay their land revenue. They entered the precincts of the Gurudwara. To the guards they said, "We have to come pay land revenue to our Chaudri." Their ruse worked and they were allowed to go into the compound of the Holy Temple. Tying their horses to a ber tree outside the main gate, the ber tree to the which horses were tied still exists, and carrying their sacks of payment they entered the room where they saw Massa Ranghar. He was seated on a cot, smoking a hukka, they could tell that he was intoxicated with wine. With half closed eyes he was listening to the music of the dancing girls. The sight made their blood boil. Bhai Sukha Singh stood watch near the door. Bhai Mehtab Singh went in and fell on the tyrant like lightning. With one stroke of his sword he cut off Massa's head. Massa's companions were taken by surprise. They ran about in terror. Before they could recover from their surprise and shock, Bhai Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh had made good their escape and galloped away. The very sword used to decapitate him is in the Ajaib Ghar at Darbar Sahib, I stood there watching it in amazement!!

In Sooraj Parkash katha during the time of 6ve Paatshah there was a person who terrorized a village that Guru Sahib was in, this thug also used to shout very disrespectful things at Guru Sahib and Sikhs were ready to thrash him but Guru Sabin stopped them from thrashing him because he only disrepcted the 6th Guru and not Guru Nanak Dev Ji. One day he made the mistake of disrespecting Guru Nanak Dec Ji and that was when Guru Sabin ordered Sikhs to put ring in his nose and then drag him around the village while villagers slapped him with juthian. Not sure if I told the story accurately but the point is that the person was already a criminal who harmed the villagers.

That was their family Name. Their caste (if they had chosen to refer to it) would have been Khatri but the fact they excluded it is point enough for any sane Sikh that the caste System is utterly pointless. lmao what? are you going to follow what other Sikhs do or what Gurbani tells us? If all the Sikhs you know started doing Devi Pooja bowing towards idols would you start doing that too? and this time please don't start with "no they would never" just consider the distinctive Scenario. lol what, which kinds of things lmao? You're logic is if the family is from or belonged to a certain caste people are then confined to that caste. In actaulity guru Nanak or his successors to his Jott never once referred to their caste. and what caste would someone from the Smith family fall under then? What about Someone from a Sekibo family. Please stop. Go to a Geneticist. Find out what waheguru wants your caste to be. Look in your genes, you got them from Waheguru. Are you going to listen to what you're culture tells you or what God has prescribed. Look there and find me the genome which states what caste you are. You've yet to address my point. are you saying the Guru Sahib's bodies also practiced the Caste System? What more would I expect from someone who holds what other humans state higher than what Gurbani states

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lala Jagat Narain was killed because he said disrespectful things towards Sant Jarnail Singh , and because he was a witness against the AKJ in the 1978 Amristar Massacre trial. 62 of the newspaper staff were also killed. (over a period of time) Am I the only one who thinks this seems like terrorism? Don't get me wrong, because I am against the corrupt Indian Government and I think it was amazing how Sant Jee was waking up Panjab. But I don't think it is right to kill someone unless they are using or directing violence at someone. Personally, I have libertarian views and I think you should let everyone express their opinions , even if you don't agree. This is why I fear that if Khalistan is ever created that it will become like a Muslim country where you can get arrested for insulting the Prophet or something, which is against human rights. What if in the future someone creates some film disrespectful towards Sikhi? Are Singhs going to stab/shoot/attack them like Charlie Hebdo? Please understand and correct me if I am wrong Bhul Chuk Maaf Karo Jee WJKK WJKF EDIT : It seems that he also said things extremely disrespectful towards Guru Gobind Singh Sahib

What wrong did he say? he is saying exactly what Puratan Singhs would have done. Sikhs were once a Qaum who would never tolerate Beadbi of Guru Maharaj or Sri Darbar Sahib no matter what. They would literally kill or be killed for the respect of Guru Sahib. After 1947, Sikhs had lost all their warrior qualities that they were once known for and became Beghairat. But Guru Sahib blessed us by sending Sant Jee to wake up the Anakh in the Sikhs. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale's reaction was perfectly justified. It was not shocking that an enemy of the Sikhs tried to do Maha Beadbi of Darbar Sahib by throwing Tobacco at our most holy shrine but what was shocking was the lack of reaction from the Sikhs who should have been outraged and that is what Sant Jee was talking about.

He was no innocent journalist. He was full of hatred of the Sikhs in and out. During the Punjabi sooba movement, he instigated Punjabi Hindus to disown their own mother tongue(Punjabi) for Hindi. He would write inflamatory articles against the Sikhs and equated Punjabi to Sikhs and Hindus to Hindi. Many Sikhs died for the Punjabi sooba movment, he would not only justify it but also encourage it. During the 1978 massacre, between the Sikhs and Nirankaris(a heretical sect), again Lala played a very prominent anti Sikh role. He was not even there yet he lied by acting as a false witness against the Sikhs and even lied by claiming Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was at the site when he wasn't even there. Following his lead, all the prominent Punjabi hindu journalists began taking the side of the Nirankaris. Now this was a conflict between between Sikhs and a heretical/devient sect. So it should be considered an internal Sikh matter. Why were Punjabi Hindu journalists like Lala Jagat narain playing the Anti Sikh role in this? He went out of his way to act as a false witness! he used his position as a prominent journalist to write and act as a false witness against the Sikhs during this tragedy. Then he began distorting the image of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Pen is mightier than the sword they say. It's true. If that pen comes into the hands of a liar and hate monger, it can encourage Deaths, massacres, police encounters, tortures as was the case here.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH "Guru Kee Ninda Sunay Na Kaan, Bhet Kray Tis Sang Kirpan" Tankhanama Bhai Nand Lal Ji. Devil's Advocate fun.

Unbelievable. Should it transpire the GOI have a hand in this crime, the Feds wont do much as the US and UK are more concerned about trade deals with India.

Brother there is an appreciable difference between talk and actions. If somebody says something against Guru Ji, leave them to it, it doesn't do any harm unless we allow it to. However if somebody attempted to physically assault Guru Ji, or their disrespect went beyond words and into actions then this would merit a very different response. Anyone who defiles a saroop for instance, should be fiercely dealt with.

I don't whether to laugh or cry at the comments about Humble the Poet.....perhaps you need to watch the video he did about Operation Bluestar and 1984 before you make such idiotic judgements about him. What have you all done or achieved with your lives - except sit in front of your PCs and tut tut about other people's behaviour.

BTW don't think anyone should 'turn a blind eye'. He should get feedback. But my impression from his online presence is he's wiser and more of a saint and soldier than most of us... therefore deserving of a little more benefit of the doubt with approach.

With Maharaj's Kirpa I aim to do more such pieces: http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2015/08/guardians-of-gobind_16.html?view=magazine

The original Kshatriyas of ancient India are the Khatris. It is said that as they abandoned their warrior Dharam and took on the profession of dukaandhari they lost their warrior spirit. Another problem with India had been the caste system. Only those who belonged to the warrior/kshatriya caste were allowed to or able to fight. Once the invader would destroy the armies of india the rest of the population quietly submitted since they were not kshatriyas. The Gurus changed this where any Sikh belonging to any caste/ethnic background can take up arms and fight the enemy.

The Hindutva types blame the Buddhists because they introduced ahimsa. Personally, I think it has been the popularity of Chanakya.

Thank you for bringing up Family Line In one swipe you just undercut your entire argument. Here you say. But now you just affirmed that it's the family line which prevents interbreeding. Thank you for clearing that up and once again reasserting that the caste System is a pointless practice. There are Gurudwara's near Mandirs. Let's go and bow our heads toward the idols there too. lmao really? so our Guru Sahib's had a caste? that they actively called themselves members of the said caste? Did you know the only name Guru Gobind Singh Ji added to his identity was Singh and then his family name if asked? He never once mentioned his caste? Why are you giving it so much importance. The Khalsa has no caste. You can't say Khalsa has no caste...BUT IF SOMEONE ASKS I'M OF TARKHAN ORIGIN. What a self contradictory way to think. I want you to go a proper Geneticist and ask him to crack open your DNA. Now I want you to find the part of it which tells you which caste your from. Go ahead do it. Our Genes are what's given to us by the lord. Their what our Body will do, their what our Body will look like. So find me where in that it's inscribed about which caste someone belongs to. I don't remember you being a Brahmgyani that knows what I can or will receive. I've met a-lot of Sikhs on this forum. I've disagreed with many of them. But none of them have ever disrespected Gurbani and pushed it under a rug because it didn't fit their picture. None of them have ever tried changing and adding their own little things to Sikhism and tried to change the very fundamentals of Sikhism.

For Sikh Community - There is a problem in our community where *some* Sikhs hate people from Hindu religion blindly. It is wrong because Sikhs are not supposed to hate anyone regardless of any situation. Hindu Community - Other side should also try to understand the reasoning behind such standpoint. Depriving a community for their basic human right for more than 60+ years, yes you should expect hatred from them. Majority of hindus do not see the way sikhs see these injustices. Solution: Majority of hindus will be on Sikhs side for sure had they known the real un-biased information on injustices done against Sikhs and or punjab. We, Sikhs, rather than wasting our energy, we should mass produce the awareness of our issues. We really do need to work on it.

Overtime our castes will become non-existent. A true Gursikh would want to be regarded as belonging to Vaheguru irrespective of caste. If a Gursikh identifies themselves as their caste, then I take it that they want to be in the lowest form as a sikh. Their choice but I desire to be like Vaheguru.

I think you missed the point the OP made about him having a hunch that Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji might be taken to the Banqueting Hall. Don't fall into the trap that people like Sunny Hundal and Bobby Friction set for us. Nobody cares who marries who. Its nobody's business and we couldn't care less. The only thing we say is don't perform shams, lies and disrespect to our living Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Therefore, have these marriages where they belong, i.e the Registry Office.

Sorry but lol. Firstly marrying into the respective Caste will actually RESTRICT the Gene pool and ENCOURAGE inbreeding and the promotion of double recessive genes which leads to genetic deficiencies. I've yet to hear of a Mahapurkh that decides to go take a dip in the Ganges or any other River when Gurbani points out it's pointless. But as usual your perfect. Also to counter your love to associate with the caste system Guru Sahib writes. Now this is the part where you say Gurbani is wrong and you're 100% correct. Did you not watch the video. Where it highlights the differences between both concepts? I know watching a video and absorbing Gurmat Gyan is against what you're Pandits teach you but try and bear with us. She never looks or even tries to read any other sources. Even if someone posts Gurbani she'll pretend it doesn't exist. Guru Sahib abolished the Caste System but we have people like Preet who want to drag it back into Sikhism lol. I bet she's fine calling all Black People the "N" word and all other slave names as it's a part of History but it's ok as no one really means to use it to bring them lower down.

These are hindu castes, how are they associated with sikhs? Gurbani describes to us what a true brahmin and vaishnaav is, and has also made it clear that caste has no importance in our afterlife because a Gurmukh moves above all this.

Please tell me, what are these certain stuff lol. We have no spiritual association to castes. It's primitive.

Gurbani has pointed out flaws of hindu gods and has even compared Krishna to a worm. Why would you worship imperfect people which do not represent Vaheguru. Guru Granth Sahib Jee is there as your guidance towards Vaheguru, not your hindu gods. You can’t be that delusional to actually believe you are still living in your nonsense caste system. What is the point of holding value in castes? Please explain. Guru Gobind Singh initiated us to his family. What place does caste have in this? Taking pride in your sad caste only demeans yourself as a sikh.

The logic of this all is that your duality has made you so illogical that you can no longer understand the difference between the two.

So your hindu teachers tell you to keep on going on repeating yourself like a parrot on our site. What part of English do you not understand that carry on respecting and adoring your indigenous culture anywhere but here.

Gurbani does not promote the practice of Hinduism. Worshipping hindu gods, upholding your caste beliefs are completely against sikhi. You only need to read Gurbani to understand this. Gurbani has rejected hindu beliefs and quoted the gods as being bound to death like you and me, yet you are here insisting your hindu beliefs are a part of sikhi. Please explain where Guru Sahib encouraged the practice of Hinduism. Your hindu superstitions will only make you live further in the illusion you are living in now.

Did u even watch the bloody video provided? It gives ample rebuttals to ur incorrect stance.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all condone slavery. Should we follow suit as we are doing in this instance? Jagsaw Ji, I sincerely appeal you to mull over what the long term demographic consequences will be for our Panth if we protest and block all such prospective Anand Karaj's in the future (instead of using the couples desire for an Anand Karaj as an opportunity to engage with the couples so that they both feel themselves to be members of the Sikh Panth who will want to raise their children as members of the Sikh Panth). Pakhandi Ji that is an urban myth which defies common sense and is damaging to the image of Sikhi. Sikhs can marry whosoever they want of any parentage, so long as we do so by Anand Karaj and raise our children as Sikhs. As Anand Karaj itself is an affirmation that an erstwhile non-Sikh spouse is committing themselves to Sikhi. Obviously in the case of male spouses from aggressively proselytising Abrahamic backgrounds such as Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses and the like we need to see evidence that they will not remain committed to the inherent gender discrimination espoused by Abrahamic faiths. Ranjit Singh was whipped by Akali Phula Singh Ji precisely because he did not initially proceed with an Anand Karaj with his wife that was born to Muslim parents. Anybody that bows down in humility and sincerity before Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is a Sikh from that point on (as only Akaal Purakh knows the sincerity of our actions). History shows that Ranjit Singh's wife of Muslim ancestry indeed was married to him via Anand Karaj at Akali Phula Singh Ji's insistence. Blocking people from Anand Karaj and forcing them to partake in Church weddings or Hindu Vivaahs and the like is a recipe for disaster just like how non-Punjabi sehajdhari Sikhs were excluded from the Panth since 1950 Maryada. The question the protestors need to ask themselves is would they have dared to protest the Anand Karaj of Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj and the Anand Karaj marriages of the bravest shaheeds of our Panth? I am a Sikh today as a result of non-Sikhs being permitted to marry via Anand Karaj and I would hazard a guess that every Sikh on this forum had ancestors who at some point came into Sikhi via Anand Karaj.

Exactly johnny, im not sure how sikhs can argue against history.

Oh, I see. I think we'd all be suitably horrified and outraged to hear of something like this happening now. I think we'd also agree that the perpetrator would have earned themselves a bit of a thrashing.

Veerji, this is confusing the matter somewhat. Defiling the sanctity of Sri Harmandir Sahib with tobacco isn't an issue of free speech. Chandu Lal's betraying Guru Arjan Dev to Jahangir also wasn't an issue of free speech.

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Yeah sorry the nakhel was put in chandus nose. The story I said is right for most part with small variation.I have the recording somewhere so would have to listen to it again because it has been a while. My point was that Guru Sabin had very clear reasoning for beating the individual and he stopped Sikhs from doing so when the dusht insulted 6ve Paatshah. The limit was when heinsulted Guru Nanak Dev Ji but this person also was a very bad criminal.

question and let me tell you why. First of all you give your thread a title that suggess the current problem doing the rounds in the media is because we have an aversion to 'our girls marrying white and black men'. Our intellectuals have spent the past week trying to teach our enemies, and the media who get their stories from our enemies, that they have got it wrong, i.e we are not racists. Our issue and argument is purely that such marriages must take place in a Registry Office and not in a place of worship where sacred vows are made in front of our living Guru, i.e the lie and sham that both bride and groom are Sikhs. But tell me, how the hell we gonna get our point across to the media when people like you within don't even understand the issue ? :surrender: I Mean seriously, just what kind of a no-brain dufus are you 'sikhingthertruth' that made you make a thread like this ? You look at 4 days worth of threads and messages on this forum explaining the Sikh stance on this issue and yet on the 5th you still decide to go down this route ? The mind boggles as to what it would take to make you understand a simple point.

So you do not think Guru Gobind Singh Jee was not given the most disrespect when the journalist was killed in the name of Guru Sahib and in his roop? Do you think in their afterlife, Guru Gobind Singh Jee is going to reward them for taking the life of another human being? You NEVER murder someone over words, only if it was in the protection of another.

You are wrong, lala kuttaa narain was killed for saying/writing blasphemous articles in panjabi newspapers about dhan dhan guru gobind singh, NOT sant jarnail singh! If ppl were gona be murdered for slandering sant jarnail singh in the 80s, the victims count would run into the thousands. That dirty journo narain wrote shocking things about guru ji, such as sayin that he was a loverboy, romeo lustful man etc. He was warned many many times by sikhs, to stop this nonsense, he didnt, therefore he was beautifully murdered, hence y, i dont say a thing wen muslims go on a rampage for proph muhammed cartoons etc. In history, ANYONE who was caught attempting to kill, or deliberatly disrespect guru ji, have been dealt with, so u may wanna re-think the whole terrorism slant there pal. For eg, Muslims have told ppl before to stop drawing these cartoons, but ppl love creating drama. Also freedom of speech has a limit, coz theres freedom of speech, THEN there is hate speech, for the sake of it!Also the 62 other newspaper staff killed?? Thats the 1st ive ever heard of that!

The article is wrong. So I repeat: you cannot become patit unless you have taken Amrit and then broken Rehat.

That's you're Humai talking. That's societies Humai talking. Never once did Guru Sahib claim their family was of a certain caste. The explained their lineage BUT they never said "we're Khatri" or "we were" . Guru Nanak said Make mankind you're Yogic Brotherhood lmao and yet here you are categorizing people. If you ask a white Sikh what caste a certain surname will belong to you, they would literally go "what? " By you're logic you would join in. You claim other Sikhs do it so it's fine. And I'm telling you to prove it. Is that so hard for you to do? Our Genome defines what our Physical body can or can't do. It defines our Physical characteristics. Let me correct you're words. YOU BELIEVE everyones including our Guru Sahib's bodies take part in the caste system BECAUSE that's what you were taught. That isn't what Gurbani teaches us and going lower down the spectrum that isn't even what Science says. AS USUAL you believe anything someone tells you without a shred of proof. Why? because I believe the caste system is false and should be ignored? because I believe in true equality to all man,woman ? it must suck let's take it a step further. Guru Nanak showed all of creation to a Muslim Pir in Baghdad to prove to him that Creation is limitless. TO prove that he had actually visited other words the Pir brought back FOOD. Or Prashad to be precise from another world. Guru Sahib also mentions in Gurbani how there are countless other life forms. It's pretty obvious that God has been paying attention to them. A form of Sikhi will exist there as they are even described as fields of Karma. Now let's apply YOU'RE VIEWS to them. You would claim their bodies take part in the caste System. BUT Gurbani NEVER makes that statement. It does state.. 1) they exist 2) They can reap the seeds of good deeds they plant. 3) Gurbani exists for them too If you look at it from a scientific and a social prescriptive CIVILIZATIONS have COME and GONE without developing a complex. The Caste System phenomenon INDIAN are hellbent on keeping. The fact that Prashad was offered to 2 otherworldly people is ample proof to suggest that these people are advance and caring people. They didn't care about Caste. Nor did they inquire As that would have been mentioned by the Pir or our Beloved Guru Sahib. You don't even need to go as far as Bhai Gurdas Ji to find proof that Guru Nanak never added his caste or any other form of caste Related honorifics/links. So did our Guru Sahib's bodies have castes then?

That's why it's imperative we encourage critical thinking and education for young Sikhs so they can make up their own mind, instead of relying on celebrities or lesser sorts to "guide" youngsters. We should be our own role models. Never pin hopes on somwthing as fallible as Man. It will never end well.

Sorry but I'm not going to trust what people say. Various gods and Goddess are mentioned to illustrate certain points, if you feel the need to use and change Gurbani by referring to them in other names, lol it's on your head. Guru Sahib made it clear how we're to pronounce the words. pronunciation is everything. You should read the story about the Sikh that mispronounced Gurbani infront of Maharaj and why Guru Sahib started damdami Taksal. Right now what you're saying is that Gurbani allows people to change the words but since they essentially mean the same thing its fine. What you're now saying is that Gurbani CAN be changed. I just showed you why Oum and EkOnankar are deemed separate terms as Onankar was a newly formed word by Guru Sahib but as usual you consider yourself more reputable than Maharaj. Sorry for pointing it out but the whole reason of the Santhiya is stop Sikhs mispronouncing everything. Regardless of what other faiths say we're to refer to everything the way Gurbani Taught us. Not what Hinduism taught, not what Christianity taught and so on. As usual you decide to disregard Maharaj's words and decide your own interpretation is correct. It's your type of thinking that stops people gaining proper Gurmat Gyan of Santhiya. As you believe "oh well close enough so its fine". Even when reading the most Basic Mool Mantr people make countless mistakes as we're imperfect. But with the knowledge of Santhiya you can help limit them. You're happy to mispronounce Gurbani but get this. Not everyone is.

Good then stop arguing with what Guru Gobind Singh Ji taught, Oum and Ekonkaar are completely different words regardless how you want it to. Stop adding your own thoughts and what you believe into what Guru Sahib taught. Accents have very little to do with Gurbani IF someone pronounces it correctly, Many White Sikhs have extremely good pronunciations of Gurbani despite not being born into a tradition Sikh household.. Unless now you're saying Gurbani is imperfect and only certain accents can fully relish it's delights. But if you're fine with agreeing with people that Guru Sahib coined it from the Vedas then so be it. So whatever Of course not. You just love to argue with Gurbani instead because you know best.

Yes it really does. If you want to mispronounce the first sentence of Gurbani then go for it. Allah and Ram mean the same thing, but their different words entirely. The same applies for IkOnakar and Oum. IkOnakar didn't come from Oum. It was actually a completely unique creation for it's time. i know you lack basic reading comprehension. I know this is a big thing for you so let help you make it crystal clear I believe Gurbani is perfect but I also believe anyone who will sit down and lovingly address God and try to reach god will reach god. Regardless of what Scripture they read. God is about love and devotion. I already apologized for my "useless comment" however if all that is beyond you then be my guest. Maybe it's time you took a dip in your Ganga Devi again. My words may have caused you to sin by mistake. Not sure if that was directed at me.

Aj kal Di paneeri - leh.....?

This supposed 'role model'; Humble the poet. I'm sure, at the end of day, he's a pretty nice bloke. And in this world full of not so nice blokes its nice to find nice ones. But.....he wears the saroop of Sri Gobind Singh Ji so shouldn't we be expecting more from him ? Shouldn't he be mature and intellectual enough to see how those that are still learning look to him for inspiration and to set the right example ? As a man I and we can't fault him. He's a good man. I've no reason to say and think otherwise. But as a Singh who wears HIS saroop we have to say he is not only confused and naive but also damnright insulting, especially given the recent fiasco where he insulting none other than Sri Gobind Singh Ji on facebook and then quickly deleted what he had said. And then you have to think....even monas or people like Bobby Friction wouldn't sink so low so are we showing this man too much respect simply because he looks the part ? As a man then, he is as good and as flawed as any of us. But as a 'role model' he is definately not someone who should even appear on the list.

First he started off real loving and pro-sikh, but when he got angry he showed his true colours. Typical.

Another interesting thing i heard was how many GurSikhs found multiple meanings to that ikonkaar. They all correlated to the same thing, i.e 1 god but I deeply believe that we over simplify this one crucial phrase in Gurmat.

Cool, now go and Read the one we currently follow. Most of the Rehitmaryadas which were created after the departure of the 10th Guru were flawed. Even the ones that were created during the time of the Guru Sahib were constantly changing. The RehetMaryadas are a code of conduct. If any of it contradicts Gurbani then we're to ignore it altogether Sorry but what lol. The Sikh oath is to uphold Justice and good will. I just proved that with a verse from Gurbani. Get it through your head. My lies? lmao. Are you now saying our Gurbani is filled with lies because they don't match you're expectations? I hate to break it to you but the RehitMaryadas were all written by GurSikhs and not the Guru Sahibs, So once again. Find it in Gurbani this supposed oath of Sikhs. Arguably the only one any Sikh will accept is the one that we follow as of Today. The Akal Takhat's one. Most of the RehitMaryada were very contradictory so it was then in the 1930s that Sikh Scholars,Jathedhars and the Akal Takhat got together and forged a proper one. Taking into account all others. Please learn our History if you want to discuss this with us. The bold is rejected by all Sikhs. God's light is infused in everyone. I'm glad you asked all that. Because time and time again Gurbani points out the Vedas are false. They contain KERNELS of truth in there. SAME with Islam. There is overlap IN EVERY religion. The concept of Yuga are also a massive debating point as they don't only speak of time periods but also speak of actual states of minds for some Sikhs. False again. The first word wasn't Om in Sikhism. Do you know why Sikhs laugh at Hindu traditions? Because the rituals that were follow were deemed mundane and pointless by our Guru Sahibs. If you bother reading Japji Sahib and not just listening to whatever some random person will tell you, you'll see WHY Sikhs reject Hinduism. this is where Sikh Santhiya might help you a little. Most Layman Sikhs mispronounce it completely. False again. We don't think their incarnations of God in the same sense as Avatars. We believe they have god's light within them and they carry God's message. They asserted time and time again they weren't god. The Vedas were deemed useless by the Sikh Gurus. As I just pointed out by the quote from Guru Gobind Singh Ji. lol what? Time and time again it was pointed out that Hinduism in general was a flawed ideology. It encompasses many beliefs and practices Polygamy. Regardless of how you speak it is flawed if it allows such practices to happen. If you want to play that game then let's go for it. Go to a Muslim site and tell them Islam also comes Hinduism. Do the same to any Christian Site. I would love to see how that goes down. I don't get why you feel the need to only focus on the similarities. If you didn't notice, Islam and Sikhism also have similarities. The Big Bang coincidentally is also arguably mentioned in the Quran. So please. Before calling anyone a thief please learn that similar Ideas and concepts are a common trend in all Religions. So the Sikh Guru were Jackasses? Did you know that they also reference the bible,Quran and other Scriptures in there too. They were also well versed in the Quran and (going by the mention of Adam and the bible I believe) of the Bible. You just dug your own grave. You just said and admitted they were well taught in many religious scriptures. BUT in Gurbani they are ALL rejected and told time and time again their imperfect and completely ignore them. Implying that either A) the Guru Sahibs didn't consider the Vedas as the true,flawless means to attain enlightenment B) You are now making up statements without looking at the proper Gurbani. So allow me to make this Crystal Clear. Find me Gurbani Quotes, that's right from our Scriptures. Which tell us we're born to Protect Hindus. lol, Go on. Look at our scriptures. Ignore the RehetMaryadas which are constantly changing. Go to the Source which is our Gurbani.

Yup I saw those remedies too but didn't have much time to read the rest or in detail. One cannot achieve something through force, it's Gods grace that gives one something. ਆਖਣਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਚੁਪੈ ਨਹ ਜੋਰੁ ॥ आखणि जोरु चुपै नह जोरु ॥ Ākẖaṇ jor cẖupai nah jor. No power to speak, no power to keep silent. ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਮੰਗਣਿ ਦੇਣਿ ਨ ਜੋਰੁ ॥ जोरु न मंगणि देणि न जोरु ॥ Jor na mangaṇ ḏeṇ na jor. No power to beg, no power to give. ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੀਵਣਿ ਮਰਣਿ ਨਹ ਜੋਰੁ ॥ जोरु न जीवणि मरणि नह जोरु ॥ Jor na jīvaṇ maraṇ nah jor. No power to live, no power to die. ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਰਾਜਿ ਮਾਲਿ ਮਨਿ ਸੋਰੁ ॥ जोरु न राजि मालि मनि सोरु ॥ Jor na rāj māl man sor. No power to rule, with wealth and occult mental powers. ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ जोरु न सुरती गिआनि वीचारि ॥ Jor na surṯī gi▫ān vīcẖār. No power to gain intuitive understanding, spiritual wisdom and meditation. ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ जोरु न जुगती छुटै संसारु ॥ Jor na jugṯī cẖẖutai sansār. No power to find the way to escape from the world. ਜਿਸੁ ਹਥਿ ਜੋਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਸੋਇ ॥ जिसु हथि जोरु करि वेखै सोइ ॥ Jis hath jor kar vekẖai so▫e. He alone has the Power in His Hands. He watches over all. ਨਾਨਕ ਉਤਮੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੩੩॥ नानक उतमु नीचु न कोइ ॥३३॥ Nānak uṯam nīcẖ na ko▫e. ||33|| O Nanak, no one is high or low. ||33||

I flipped through this... publication a few years ago. It starts off harmless; advising us to ensure Gurbani is part of our daily routine, etc, as well as recommending a few other things that any Gursikh does on a normal day anyhow. However, as I delved deeper into the pages of the book it became clear something was a bit off. There were shabads that had been prescribed for the following reasons: 1. Make the object of your affection fall in love with you. 2. Win back your lover / wife / husband after they've left for someone else. 3. Cause a breakup between a couple. 4. Ensure your lover / wife / husband does only what you tell them to. 5. Keep unwanted attention of interested parties away from the object of your affection. Etc. There was a heck of a lot more on similar lines aside from the romantic stuff. Call me old fashioned but the above type of crap is not how I've been raised to view Sikhi. Gurbani is not a magic spell book and anyone who does use these shabads in such a way needs their head checked. I'm not saying they won't work, but why would any genuine Sikh behave in a way that facilitates the need for such... devilry? The worrying thing is I've begun to suspect a large number of fellow Gursikhs who like to portray themselves as butter-wouldn't-melt, devout types partake in these shenanigans in order to gain advantages over others, whilst giving the impression they hold no water with such practices, when behind closed doors everything is fair game. Worrying times.