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Somewhat of an interesting study opening the topic... worth 3 seconds of thought. No poster seems to have concluded anything serious from the study. And we should be careful not to do that. We are doomed if we believe height equates to some kind of merit. We might as well speak of how fair we are or how dark we are. Sadly, we do. Our guruji’s threw such notions aside long ago. For all we know genetically we grow the fastest to age 5 and then the slowest thereafter. For all we know it’s due to the growth hormone in dairy which we consume in the greatest amounts, and it also is the cause of high rates of diabetes and may lead to other issues over generations. I prefer to compare ourselves to ourselves and every self to oneself. For a nation of warriors we must be in better shape. We don’t all need to be bodybuilders. However, for a Sikh, mind, body and soul are all important. There are a few people who genetically may have challenges and respect to them for dealing with that. But for most of us, we have designer clothes and cars to mask an overfed belly and lazy scared mind. Show me a person who thinks height is paramount and I’ll show you a wimp of a target. When it comes to genetic advancement, our guruji’s gave their heads for multiculturalism and a humanity of one race culminating in the Khalsa hundreds of years before anyone imagined multiculturalism. Spiritually and genetically, that is the most advanced human way forward. The roar we were entrusted with was one that would see humanity genetically flourish through sikhi across the globe as per the Khalsa blueprint. Lets refrain from hijacking sikhi as punjabi domain and attempting to roar about 3 centimeters at age 5.

These things are preordained. Whether he reveals himself to somebody or doesn't, this is his Hukam in any case. Now bearing in mind that Sikhi incites us to nimrata, I ask you, is asking God to amend his Hukam on your behalf an act of humility? The belief that the Almighty somehow owes it to one to give them his darshan is egotistical, that's the truth of it. God owes us nothing, and praying for anything except the power to accept his Hukam, irrespective of whether it makes your life a joy or a misery, is an exercise in vanity. Faith which is predicated on the receipt of rewards is weak and tenuous. The only faith which stands the test of time is that which is honed by adversity.

You know what paaji, that is indicative. Many apnay have such comfortable lives these days, that they don't have a perception or experience of genuine difficulties and hardships, like what apnay have experienced for centuries i.e. being a refugee trying to flee Pakistan surrounded by murderous, raping mobs.

I actually agree with you Paji on this. We should not be expecting an experience, whether it's female or male. And even if one does have such an experience, it's nothing to be going shouting out over the roof tops. The relation between a soul and God is personal and it puts doubts into others when they keep hearing of others having experiences, that why they are not having them. The most blessed experience would be to having the opportunity to say God's name, which many many do not have. So that on its own is the most wonderful experience Waheguru has blessed us with. God loves those that don't have experiences, the same as those that do. Well that's my thinking anyways. ?? Waheguru.

Last year was a tough year. We decided we were having an extension to be done in the house. This resulted in a great deal of disruption to our normal routine. It also meant that we were more busy than ever and had lesser visitors around. It meant we were eating simpler foods. It also meant that the TV was off for a significant amount of time. This is when I had my ipod on for long periods of time. I was listening to a lot of shabad kirtan, We were visiting lesser people so I was spending a significant amount of time on my own. (Listening to shabads, I would have tears rolling down my eyes and would cry a great deal) I had never woken up at Amrit vela to do path. I decided to do this and Amrit vela was truly magical. I had a number of experiences of being woken up by divine forces and the urge to start praying. It is at this time that one day I was listening to the shabad - ik shin dharas dhikhaye ji. Then I started to wonder what it would be to get darshan for just a minute. Deep in my heart I starting longing for darshan of one minute. I woke up at Amrit vela - did all my prayers and went to sleep. When I was sleeping - I had this wonderful blissful experience which is totally difficult to describe. My soul was totally awakened and my heart felt like it filled my whole body. I felt totally different and there was a voice deep deep in me asking me If I wanted Waheguru and there was Waheguru simran going on like I have never heard or felt before. The voice was so clear. There was nothing to see - it was just a feeling. A very clear feeling. My answer was yes - I wanted Waheguru. The voice replied to me - Then keep doing the jap of Waheguru. The voice was not heard by my ears but by my soul. Then the great feeling started to part. My husband was calling me below to do something. (in my dream) I was pleading with him, please give me one second - the feeling is leaving me and I dont want it to end. In my dream my soul was sort of hanging in the air and I could not get down to do the task he was asking me to. I was in full consciousness but sort of paralysed. Something kept tugging me on the side and I thought it was my son. The feeling which I was getting of Waheguru was so sweet that I could not let it go but it kept departing. My soul was yearning for it and an explanation came to me instantly and I understood - not now it said - you still have people who need you. I woke up and opened my eyes. I thought my son was on the side pulling at my blanket - but he was not. The feeling of his hands on my side was so real, that I was just wondering what had been happening to me. Some force had come to my assistance to bring my soul back to my body. I was wondering whether I had died or what was it? I was only full of regret - why did I ask darshaan of only ik shin? I should have asked more. How did I know that this wish would be fulfilled? If I had known then I would definitely have asked for more. So if you are doing simran or bhagti or anything else (meditation, listening to shabads) be hopeful and know that Waheguru is real. YOu need to keep working and try to beat all the obstacles which will come your way. Use your time wisely - choose your friends wisely and keep your thoughts positive and focused all the time. The hope which we rely on and the reward of darshan of one minute is so beautiful that it fills you up with regret when you have to depart. Keep praying that Waheguru can keep us in sach khand right under his care and under his wings such that we do not have to depart from him again and come to this earth to suffer. The real spiritual world which we long to see is seen with closed eyes. What we see when we open our eyes is all false. Yes it was and it is a sad departing when we leave God to come to this world. God wants us to unite with him, but we can only meet him through our actions. So let us start doing the things which will bring us closer to God. ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ रागु गउड़ी पूरबी महला ५ Rāg ga▫oṛī pūrbī mėhlā 5 Raag Gauree Poorbee, Fifth Mehl: ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: ਕਿਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਗੁਸਾਈ ਮੇਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਇ ॥ किन बिधि मिलै गुसाई मेरे राम राइ ॥ Kin biḏẖ milai gusā▫ī mere rām rā▫e. How may I meet my Master, the King, the Lord of the Universe? ਕੋਈ ਐਸਾ ਸੰਤੁ ਸਹਜ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਮੋਹਿ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਦੇਇ ਬਤਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ कोई ऐसा संतु सहज सुखदाता मोहि मारगु देइ बताई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Ko▫ī aisā sanṯ sahj sukẖ▫ḏāṯa mohi mārag ḏe▫e baṯā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o. Is there any Saint, who can bestow such celestial peace, and show me the Way to Him? ||1||Pause|| ਅੰਤਰਿ ਅਲਖੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ਲਖਿਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਪੜਦਾ ਹਉਮੈ ਪਾਈ ॥ अंतरि अलखु न जाई लखिआ विचि पड़दा हउमै पाई ॥ Anṯar alakẖ na jā▫ī lakẖi▫ā vicẖ paṛ▫ḏā ha▫umai pā▫ī. The Unseen Lord is deep within the self; He cannot be seen; the curtain of egotism intervenes. ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹਿ ਸਭੋ ਜਗੁ ਸੋਇਆ ਇਹੁ ਭਰਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਿਉ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ माइआ मोहि सभो जगु सोइआ इहु भरमु कहहु किउ जाई ॥१॥ Mā▫i▫ā mohi sabẖo jag so▫i▫ā ih bẖaram kahhu ki▫o jā▫ī. ||1|| In emotional attachment to Maya, all the world is asleep. Tell me, how can this doubt be dispelled? ||1|| ਏਕਾ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਇਕਤੁ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਬਸਤੇ ਮਿਲਿ ਬਾਤ ਨ ਕਰਤੇ ਭਾਈ ॥ एका संगति इकतु ग्रिहि बसते मिलि बात न करते भाई ॥ Ėkā sangaṯ ikaṯ garihi basṯe mil bāṯ na karṯe bẖā▫ī. The one lives together with the other in the same house, but they do not talk to one another, O Siblings of Destiny. ਏਕ ਬਸਤੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਪੰਚ ਦੁਹੇਲੇ ਓਹ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਠਾਈ ॥੨॥ एक बसतु बिनु पंच दुहेले ओह बसतु अगोचर ठाई ॥२॥ Ėk basaṯ bin pancẖ ḏuhele oh basaṯ agocẖar ṯẖā▫ī. ||2|| Without the one substance, the five are miserable; that substance is in the unapproachable place. ||2||

In my experience, many males falls into same trap . I don't think ego distinguishes between gender. That's why sikhi beleives in JOT in all of us which underpins both gender realization not some condioned superimposed gender realization.

This type of Dawaist debate is done out of a sense of perceived superiority complex but the underlying reason is they have a lot of insecurities. They are quite frightened to listen in case it makes them doubt their own beliefs which I know they do at a subconscious level. We saw this with the rhetorical devices Dawa man in his debate with Jagraj Singh. The minute Jagraj gets his point across, the Dawah man gets gripped into it before he had to snap himself out of it. I always get the feeling they are trying to convince themselves more than anyone else. Though this is a very interesting exercise for any Parcharik to see how Dawaists talk, how they react, how they question, their body language etc.

Why is it that females desire a reward for their devotion; almost daring the Lord to prove his existence to them? Are his unseen blessings not enough to sustain them? I apologise if this seems sexist, as it's not my intention, but I've noticed over the years how many of our religiously inclined bibiya (the younger ones at least) crave a miracle or a vision. What will you achieve long term by gaining such darshan? If anything, it will only make you hungry for more. So, instead of praying to Waheguru for peace of mind or an end to Churasi Lakh Joon, all efforts will be focused on pleading for a visitation. It's an ego trip. Apologies if this sounds harsh, but when it comes to us Sikhs, such demands for a holy experience are linked to ego and a lack of true faith. Is it not enough to FEEL God... He needs to be SEEN too? Darshan are given when they are deemed necessary, either to impart essential information that would otherwise never reach us, or warn us about something that is entirely preventable and something that should not be occurring (but, due to uncontrollable human nature, is going to occur). If one's faith is built on the notion of regular visitations from Sachkhand, then I'm afraid you're doing the whole religion thing completely wrong. Apologies if I've offended anyone, but this needed to be said. I expect salty retaliation, but I'm unconcerned about that.

To digress slightly: In his multi-volume retelling of the fanatic Aurangzeb's life, and actions, Sir Jadhunath Sarkar makes some very candid and substantiated remarks about the concept of an Islamic state: "By the theory of it's origin the Muslim state is a theocracy... In such a state, infidelity is logically equivalent to treason... Therefore, the toleration of any sect outside the fold of Orthodox (it is imperative to note here "orthodox") Islam is no better than compounding with sin... The conversion of the entire population to Islam and the extinction of every form of dissent is the ideal of the Muslim state." - Sarkar, "History of Aurangzeb," vol. III, pg. 248-250. According to the Koran, "the only faith acceptable to Allah is Islam." -3:19. Given the radical impetus of the Prophet's faith in gaining more "reverts" is it any wonder then that: "A non-Muslim, therefore, cannot be a citizen of the state; he is a member of a depressed class; his status is a modified form of slavery." -Sarkar, pg. 251. In a mockery of the plight of the enslaved Hindus, many orthodox Muslims under Aurangzeb's reign would taunt: "No other religious authority except the great Imam (Hanifa) whose faith we follow, has sanctioned the imposition of the "Jizzya" on Hindus. According to all other theologians, the rule for Hindus is 'either death or Islam...'" -Sarkar, pg. 252. Given this incendiary tendency, it was inevitable that both Sikhi and Islam would clash. Akbar's tolerance was effaced by his rebellious, and alcoholic, son Jahangir. An avid fan of Sheikh Ahmad Sirhindi and the latter's revival of Islamic fundamentalism (yes, it existed even back then), the drunkard would comment: "He (Sirhindi) has made the revival of (Islamic) orthodoxy something of a movement." -Tuzuk-i-Jahangiri quoted in Mujib, M: "The Indian Muslims." Guru Nanak Dev Ji had rejected Islam in all it's forms. Disabusing many Muslims of their elitist notions he would proclaim: "Make kindness thy mosque, sincerity thy carpet of prayer; what is just thy Koran; modesty thy circumcision; civility thy fasting and so shalt thou be considered a true Muslim." - AGGS Ang. 140. This was directly a challenge to Islam and it's elitism. Dismissed was the mosque, dismissed were the five prayers and the necessities of circumcision, dismissed was the Koran in it's stead a new and more humane formula was created. Such tenets, and their practicalities, soon earned the Sikhs the ire of the Islamic clergy. Whilst being tortured Guru Arjan Dev Ji is said to have elucidated: "I bear all this torture to set an example...The true test of faith is in the hour of misery. Without examples to guide, ordinary persons' minds quail in the midst of suffering. In the second place, if he who possesseth power within him, defends not his religion by the open profession thereof the man who possess no such powers will, when put to the torture abjure his faith. The sin will light on the head of him who hath the power but showeth it not and God will deem him an enemy of religion." -Macauliffe, pg. 94-95. The Guru's open "profession" of his faith and it's principles of challenging tyranny head on were the reasons behind his execution by the "Islamic state." What is ironic is that the Guru had the last word against his executioners: "Whatever I possess I spend on the poor, the friendless and the alien. If thou require money than take from me however much you desire; but if thou demand a fine than I will not render you even a single penny! And as to thy edicts demanding censor of certain hymns from the sacred Granth Sahib, nor will I alter nor erase even a single passage. I am a worshiper of the Immortal God, the Supreme Soul of the world. There is no monarch to save him!" -Macauliffe, vol. III, pg. 100. This was a direct attack against the theocratic foundations of the Mughal-Islamic state. The Guru happily accepted death for expressing "dissent" or otherwise practicing and preaching a faith deviant from the Prophet's. The question now is that does the "peaceful" variant of Islam presented by Westernized Muslims hold any credence in light of the faith's own doxa? Are we blindly going to kowtow to their cliched lines, "religion of peace etc etc" whilst their radicals continually massacre us? As Sikhs it is our duty to challenge radical Muslims, wherever they be and whoever they be, as prioritized by our noble and steadfast Gurus.

Let's talk about yayo, charlie, coke, chitta or whatever people want to call it. OP, realise that alcohol is a powerful substance. But our body is also something that tries to protect itself. That's why excess alcohol makes us drowsy and we eventually fall asleep, puke or whatever. It's our own bodies way of protecting us from further damage, because in excess, alcohol actually works like a poison in our system which our body has to process to remove from us. Too much over time starts to effect our mind and organs, especially the liver - leading to a number of complications. Now, as you know, you can get to the point where your body would normally shut down in reaction to alcohol overload, but throw charlie in the mix and it somehow overrides our bodies natural defense systems, giving you the allusion of feeling fine (when our body already has more alcohol than it can handle), then people proceed to have a load more alcohol. Think about it logically - your body is already reached the limit of the alcohol it can process - and charlie's got you throwing in loads more. What will be the consequence? Once the charlie wears off, the reason you're feeling like sh1t is because you've pushed your body way past its limit and it is trying to recover. When you're young you might be able to get away with that a few times but very soon, you're likely to permanently damage yourself beyond repair. Then let's look at it from a neurological point of view. Our brains are made up of a finely balanced electrical/chemical system. Charlie essentially has you producing an excess amount of a chemical neurotransmitter called dopamine in your brain which is what makes you feel the way you do. The high levels of dopamine that get released are abnormal to our normal functioning. Do this too much and you can permanently change the structure of your brain in a very negative way. From what I've seen the most common result is the development of paranoia schizophrenia, ranging from paranoid thoughts to actually hallucinating - seeing and hearing things that don't exist. Once you get there - you're f**ked. Then you'll have to take mind numbing drugs like temazepam (aka fraggle juice) which will have you mentally numbed up and putting on a whole bunch of flab in no time. My advice: think selfishly about yourself and your health and future. Think about your reputation and the reputation of your family - even if this is sh1t, you don't want to make it even worse. Then think about the reputation of your wider community - Sikhs. We've got enough issues we have to deal with as it is. Tell yourself you refuse to add to them.

Waheguru ji ke khalsa wahiguru ji ki fateh i understand and agree that the Akaal Bunga is the head of the Panth but could I have some quotes and itihaas to back this up thanks

In Which Raag is this shabad being performed in? The shabad itself is in Raag Soohee but is it being performed in Raag Basant? And does anyone have notation for this shabad on harmonium? I really want to learn Raag Kirtan. I have been doing kirtan in tunes I made myself for about a year now and I only recently realized the importance of raag. I found the four volumes Gurmat Sangeet Sagar on discoversikhism.com and I'm trying my best to learn from there myself. Currently I am making an effort to learn Basant and Bahar for the spring season from Sangrand of Magh to Holla Mohalla. If anyone could give me another great source for learning gurmat sangeet that would be great.

Truth. More truth than most can handle.

Complete disconnect from reality. And anyone that challenges them is lost or not "tuned in" sufficiently. Reminds me of this:

Jagraj Singh and/or Basics of Sikhi are not going to change everything by themselves. They are truly an inspiration to many including myself, but the bottom line is that we all have to become active like Jagraj Singh has in order to educate the younger Sikhs. We all have a part to play, but from what I have seen and experienced from younger Sikhs aged around 20-40, there is no desire there to do anything, and if there is, then it's only in small numbers which has little or no effect.

It wasn't awesome; not at all. It was a convoluted, roundabout way of masking her true intentions - that she spelled out unambiguously in her original post - by using Gurbani to present her actions in a positive light. Whilst her heart was certainly in the right place, her reasons are completely misplaced. A lack of self awareness means she can't fathom that there is an error in her ways. *** I knew the limits to her comprehension when she started her post with, "Last year was a tough year. We decided we were having an extension to be done in the house." I dread to think what would happen if she encountered genuinely stressful times, lol.

So all along Niddar and his friends were a front for an anti Sikh organisation. Many times they denied it, but he has said it himself. This cult should be shut down before it makes fools of innocent Sikh youth and damages them.

It would depend on what you want to use your experience for. Any sakhi or story about real dharshan that I have ever heard has encouraged me to say my prayers with even more devotion. Sunat kehat rehat ghat pavo... from Sikhmani sahib. It tells us to listen to the word of God and to tell others too - this means to encourage others to pray to God too. Apart from that it is very important to live the word and a righteous life too. Avar updese aap na kare. avat jaave janme mare - this means that if you are telling other to do it and not doing it yourself - then you will fall in the churasi yourself too. So when you tell others to do naam jap it is very important that you do it too.

Haan ji, i totally agree with your statement below, if it effortlessly unexpectedly come in your consciousness thats beautiful its as form of divine insight or expression itself. Ego usually resumes after pure experience is over. While one real consciouness is being with absolute truth (Sat) Vahiguru himself there is no ego there as sat has taken our core being/center being and ego has taken a back seat.

When a spiritual experience occurs you do not realise that you were actually praying for it. Everything which we have has been given to us by God himself. Even this human life has been given to us by God. Ego exists when you forget God. When you want the darshan of Guru JI, you are being besides yourself and remembering the Lord. There are different ways of pining for the Lord. When a girl does not have a partner - she is looking for one. When she finally gets a partner - assuming lets say that he is overseas, she will want to see what he looks like - everything cannot be left to the imagination. However if she is looking at other guys and admiring them - it would be wrong. However if she thinks about the man she is going to marry and hopes to see him - there is nothing wrong. Its the same thing with us. If we want to have Waheguru's dharshan there is nothing wrong with that. However if we are lost in worldly things - then we are wrong. If we get dharshan ans want more and more - there is nothing wrong with that. God will satisfy us with his dharshan as you remember the story of Dhana bhagat. God had to assume huma form and come down and meet him. Some happenings like when Prahlad was going to be burnt alive by none other than his father also prompted the appearance of God. Would you rather be blessed with darshan or be a wrong doer like Harnakhash who had NarSingh come down to kill him. Darshan only exists where the ego has been dispelled and the Being is one with God ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ सारग महला ५ ॥ Sārag mėhlā 5. Saarang, Fifth Mehl: ਮਾਈ ਰੀ ਮਾਤੀ ਚਰਣ ਸਮੂਹ ॥ माई री माती चरण समूह ॥ Mā▫ī rī māṯī cẖaraṇ samūh. O mother, I am totally intoxicated with the Lord's Feet. ਏਕਸੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਹਉ ਆਨ ਨ ਜਾਨਉ ਦੁਤੀਆ ਭਾਉ ਸਭ ਲੂਹ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ एकसु बिनु हउ आन न जानउ दुतीआ भाउ सभ लूह ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Ėkas bin ha▫o ān na jān▫o ḏuṯī▫ā bẖā▫o sabẖ lūh. ||1|| rahā▫o. I know of none other than the Lord. I have totally burnt off my sense of duality. ||1||Pause|| ਤਿਆਗਿ ਗੋੁਪਾਲ ਅਵਰ ਜੋ ਕਰਣਾ ਤੇ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਕੇ ਖੂਹ ॥ तिआगि गोपाल अवर जो करणा ते बिखिआ के खूह ॥ Ŧi▫āg gopāl avar jo karṇā ṯe bikẖi▫ā ke kẖūh. To abandon the Lord of the World, and become involved with anything else, is to fall into the pit of corruption. ਦਰਸ ਪਿਆਸ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹਿਓ ਕਾਢੀ ਨਰਕ ਤੇ ਧੂਹ ॥੧॥ दरस पिआस मेरा मनु मोहिओ काढी नरक ते धूह ॥१॥ Ḏaras pi▫ās merā man mohi▫o kādẖī narak ṯe ḏẖūh. ||1|| My mind is enticed, thirsty for the Blessed Vision of His Darshan. He has lifted me up and out of hell. ||1|| ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਬਿਨਸੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਹੂਹ ॥ संत प्रसादि मिलिओ सुखदाता बिनसी हउमै हूह ॥ Sanṯ parsāḏ mili▫o sukẖ▫ḏāṯa binsī ha▫umai hūh. By the Grace of the Saints, I have met the Lord, the Giver of peace; the noise of egotism has been stilled. ਰਾਮ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਤੇ ਦਾਸ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਉਲਿਓ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਜੂਹ ॥੨॥੯੫॥੧੧੮॥ राम रंगि राते दास नानक मउलिओ मनु तनु जूह ॥२॥९५॥११८॥ Rām rang rāṯe ḏās Nānak ma▫uli▫o man ṯan jūh. ||2||95||118|| Slave Nanak is imbued with the Love of the Lord; the forests of his mind and body have blossomed forth. ||2||95||118||

I think females are the ones who mostly sing this shabad at sat sangs. It is written by Guru Arjan Dev Ji. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/20123-darshan-dekh-jeeva-gur-tera-pooran-karam-hoe-prabh-mera/ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: ਕੂਪੁ ਭਰਿਓ ਜੈਸੇ ਦਾਦਿਰਾ ਕਛੁ ਦੇਸੁ ਬਿਦੇਸੁ ਨ ਬੂਝ ॥ कूपु भरिओ जैसे दादिरा कछु देसु बिदेसु न बूझ ॥ Kūp bẖari▫o jaise ḏāḏirā kacẖẖ ḏes biḏes na būjẖ. The frog in the deep well knows nothing of its own country or other lands; ਐਸੇ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਬਿਖਿਆ ਬਿਮੋਹਿਆ ਕਛੁ ਆਰਾ ਪਾਰੁ ਨ ਸੂਝ ॥੧॥ ऐसे मेरा मनु बिखिआ बिमोहिआ कछु आरा पारु न सूझ ॥१॥ Aise merā man bikẖi▫ā bimohi▫ā kacẖẖ ārā pār na sūjẖ. ||1|| just so, my mind, infatuated with corruption, understands nothing about this world or the next. ||1|| ਸਗਲ ਭਵਨ ਕੇ ਨਾਇਕਾ ਇਕੁ ਛਿਨੁ ਦਰਸੁ ਦਿਖਾਇ ਜੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ सगल भवन के नाइका इकु छिनु दरसु दिखाइ जी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Sagal bẖavan ke nā▫ikā ik cẖẖin ḏaras ḏikẖā▫e jī. ||1|| rahā▫o. O Lord of all worlds: reveal to me, even for an instant, the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||1||Pause|| ਮਲਿਨ ਭਈ ਮਤਿ ਮਾਧਵਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਗਤਿ ਲਖੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ मलिन भई मति माधवा तेरी गति लखी न जाइ ॥ Malin bẖa▫ī maṯ māḏẖvā ṯerī gaṯ lakẖī na jā▫e. My intellect is polluted; I cannot understand Your state, O Lord. ਕਰਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਚੂਕਈ ਮੈ ਸੁਮਤਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਸਮਝਾਇ ॥੨॥ करहु क्रिपा भ्रमु चूकई मै सुमति देहु समझाइ ॥२॥ Karahu kirpā bẖaram cẖūk▫ī mai sumaṯ ḏeh samjẖā▫e. ||2|| Take pity on me, dispel my doubts, and teach me true wisdom. ||2|| ਜੋਗੀਸਰ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਨਹੀ ਤੁਅ ਗੁਣ ਕਥਨੁ ਅਪਾਰ ॥ जोगीसर पावहि नही तुअ गुण कथनु अपार ॥ Jogīsar pāvahi nahī ṯu▫a guṇ kathan apār. Even the great Yogis cannot describe Your Glorious Virtues; they are beyond words. ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਕੈ ਕਾਰਣੈ ਕਹੁ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਚਮਾਰ ॥੩॥੧॥ प्रेम भगति कै कारणै कहु रविदास चमार ॥३॥१॥ Parem bẖagaṯ kai kārṇai kaho Raviḏās cẖamār. ||3||1|| I am dedicated to Your loving devotional worship, says Ravi Daas the tanner. ||3||1|| The desire of dharshan is actually a male initiated idea.(I would not have had to use the word male here if you had not used female in the first place) It is in Gurbani. Yes, dharshan is a benti not a demand in return for devotion. We could be devoted better. Darshan is the result of God's wish. So many people want dharshan but dont get it. No need to apologise. I understand that a woman would be able to understand the concept of getting married to the Lord better than men who marry. (If you catch my drift) Wouldn't you rather they crave anything from the True Lord rather than wish to have other peoples husbands, cars, houses, clothes or even lives. ( A bit exaggerated just to get the point across) Such dharshan is what spurs you on to recieve the bigger one. Such dharshan has a deeper meaning in it which you have to decipher for yourself. (For example - I understand that Waheguru is attained by swas swas simran which I dont have. So its a message for me to work harder to get to that stage.) Yes the Lord guides us from changing from evil to good. (My full story would be I was totally not praying at all in the month of June/July. I was so dhukhi that I just wanted to stop my present life and go somewhere and start all over again.) Reading about People's experiences - I felt I wanted the same. My life changed and I look back and say - Oh my!!! Where did I go wrong all this time. If I had not forgotten to do simran of Waheguru, I would have achieved more. We can only pray - it is up to Waheguru to choose whether he wants us in the joon or wants us to get mukti. All efforts do not go towards wanting a visitation. You need to work on what message Waheguru has given you. For instance - I now understand that I should not ask for another visitation as it means I quit existing as an individual. If I want to become one with Waheguru I have to get rid of my attachment to the people in my life. ( Also the experience made me feel the tugs that other peoples souls can have on your own soul and pull it back from Waheguru. All this has to be neutralised before mukti can be obtained. This is the reason why we keep coming back in the churasi lakh joon) This was a case where God was felt. Yes there are other cases where he is seen ( for reasons of not wanting to upset the sadh sangat I shall humbly not go into that as it seems like people on here do not like to hear other experiences) God gives his messages through other ways as well. ( I will not go into this again as some people do not like others talking about their experiences) It is greatly appreciated that you point to me that I am doing the whole religion thing wrong. I aplogise for that and promise to make further amends until I get it right. No offense taken. What you said is 100% correct in your own views. Far from wanting to retaliate I just smiled when I read your message, then I laughed , then I LOLed. Then I said to myself - Oh No better stop this is all wrong. Put it right. Thanks.

Owning spiritual experience, expecting spiritual experience and craving for same experience again and again has nothing to do with females or males but its just a nature of ego , egoic human nature as ego which affects both genders. Ego has subtle forms of being always in control ,anticipating some sort of spiritual experience,and maintain ing certain bliss full state contrary to effortless simran meditation -sehaj avastha. Gurbani sublime message below should provide great clarity in this matter, any experienceable or seen/form is not real unless one experiences full unity between seen/seer. Seen(drish) is not real but seer is (Dristha) which is non dual pure awareness/knowledge(JOT) in all of us, if one fully establish yourself in it (also known as shabad gyan/maha vak) and indentify with it, realize it- game and separate struggle is over: Only IKONGKAR- Absolute Truth (non dual pure awareness-JOT) in all of us endures and remains and in that Absolute there are no relative realities its all ONE non dual advait-Absoulte so whatever is seen or experienced is not separate reality its not seperate as relative reality but as one Absolute-ikongkar! Beautiful shabad below spoken from ABSOLUTE REALITY AND TRUTH: http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=736&punjabi=t&id=31585#l31585 ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਮਾਨ ਸਭੁ ਬਿਨਸੀਐ ਕਿਆ ਲਗਹਿ ਗਵਾਰ ॥੨॥ द्रिसटिमान सभु बिनसीऐ किआ लगहि गवार ॥२॥ Ḏaristimān sabẖ binsī▫ai ki▫ā lagėh gavār. ||2|| All that is seen shall perish. Why are you attached to it, you fool? ||2|| http://www.srigranth...id=31585#l31585 ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥ Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: ਬਾਜੀਗਰਿ ਜੈਸੇ ਬਾਜੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ बाजीगरि जैसे बाजी पाई ॥ Bājīgar jaise bājī pā▫ī. The actor stages the play, ਨਾਨਾ ਰੂਪ ਭੇਖ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ ॥ नाना रूप भेख दिखलाई ॥ Nānā rūp bẖekẖ ḏikẖlā▫ī. playing the many characters in different costumes; ਸਾਂਗੁ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਥੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਓ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥ सांगु उतारि थम्हिओ पासारा ॥ Sāʼng uṯār thamiĥa▫o pāsārā. but when the play ends, he takes off the costumes, ਤਬ ਏਕੋ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ तब एको एकंकारा ॥१॥ Ŧab eko ekankārā. ||1|| and then he is one, and only one. ||1|| ਕਵਨ ਰੂਪ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਓ ਬਿਨਸਾਇਓ ॥ कवन रूप द्रिसटिओ बिनसाइओ ॥ Kavan rūp ḏaristi▫o binsā▫i▫o. How many forms and images appeared and disappeared? ਕਤਹਿ ਗਇਓ ਉਹੁ ਕਤ ਤੇ ਆਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ कतहि गइओ उहु कत ते आइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Kaṯėh ga▫i▫o uho kaṯ ṯe ā▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o. Where have they gone? Where did they come from? ||1||Pause|| ਜਲ ਤੇ ਊਠਹਿ ਅਨਿਕ ਤਰੰਗਾ ॥ जल ते ऊठहि अनिक तरंगा ॥ Jal ṯe ūṯẖėh anik ṯarangā. Countless waves rise up from the water. ਕਨਿਕ ਭੂਖਨ ਕੀਨੇ ਬਹੁ ਰੰਗਾ ॥ कनिक भूखन कीने बहु रंगा ॥ Kanik bẖūkẖan kīne baho rangā. Jewels and ornaments of many different forms are fashioned from gold. ਬੀਜੁ ਬੀਜਿ ਦੇਖਿਓ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਕਾਰਾ ॥ बीजु बीजि देखिओ बहु परकारा ॥ Bīj bīj ḏekẖi▫o baho parkārā. I have seen seeds of all kinds being planted - ਫਲ ਪਾਕੇ ਤੇ ਏਕੰਕਾਰਾ ॥੨॥ फल पाके ते एकंकारा ॥२॥ Fal pāke ṯe ekankārā. ||2|| when the fruit ripens, the seeds appear in the same form as the original. ||2|| ਸਹਸ ਘਟਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਆਕਾਸੁ ॥ सहस घटा महि एकु आकासु ॥ Sahas gẖatā mėh ek ākās. The one sky is reflected in thousands of water jugs, ਘਟ ਫੂਟੇ ਤੇ ਓਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਗਾਸੁ ॥ घट फूटे ते ओही प्रगासु ॥ Gẖat fūte ṯe ohī pargās. but when the jugs are broken, only the sky remains. ਭਰਮ ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥ भरम लोभ मोह माइआ विकार ॥ Bẖaram lobẖ moh mā▫i▫ā vikār. Doubt comes from greed, emotional attachment and the corruption of Maya. ਭ੍ਰਮ ਛੂਟੇ ਤੇ ਏਕੰਕਾਰ ॥੩॥ भ्रम छूटे ते एकंकार ॥३॥ Bẖaram cẖẖūte ṯe ekankār. ||3|| Freed from doubt, one realizes the One Lord alone. ||3||

Here in Canada, I have notice Sikh kids tend to be taller compare to other South Asian kids. I think diet (all that milk we drink) plays a big part.

If you look at what Jagraj Singh (Basics of Sikhi) mentioned on the other topic, he used the analogy of God being the ocean and the Guru being the wave or God being the sun and Guru being the moon where the sun's light reflecting on the moon.

Guruji tells us : " ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਣੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥੨॥ जलि थलि महीअलि पूरिआ प्रभु आपणी नदरि निहालि ॥२॥ Jal thal mahī▫al pūri▫ā parabẖ āpṇī naḏar nihāl. ||2|| The Lord who is pervading the Water, earth and the space beholdeth (every one) with his Grace. " ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ सिरीरागु महला ५ ॥ Sirīrāg mėhlā 5. Sri Rag, Fifth Guru. ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਪਣਾ ਵਡਭਾਗੀ ਧਨੁ ਖਾਟਿ ॥ उदमु करि हरि जापणा वडभागी धनु खाटि ॥ Uḏam kar har jāpṇā vadbẖāgī ḏẖan kẖāt. O ye very fortunate! make effort, meditate on God and earn the wealth of Name. ਸੰਤਸੰਗਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਣਾ ਮਲੁ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੀ ਕਾਟਿ ॥੧॥ संतसंगि हरि सिमरणा मलु जनम जनम की काटि ॥१॥ Saṯsang har simraṇā mal janam janam kī kāt. ||1|| In the Society of saints, contemplate over God and wash off the filth of thine many births. ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਜਾਪੁ ॥ मन मेरे राम नामु जपि जापु ॥ Man mere rām nām jap jāp. O my mind! take to the meditation of the Name of Pervading God. ਮਨ ਇਛੇ ਫਲ ਭੁੰਚਿ ਤੂ ਸਭੁ ਚੂਕੈ ਸੋਗੁ ਸੰਤਾਪੁ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ मन इछे फल भुंचि तू सभु चूकै सोगु संतापु ॥ रहाउ ॥ Man icẖẖe fal bẖuncẖ ṯū sabẖ cẖūkai sog sanṯāp. Rahā▫o. Thou shalt enjoy the fruit of thy hearts desire and thy sorrow and suffering shall all depart. Pause. ਜਿਸੁ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਤਨੁ ਧਾਰਿਆ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਡਿਠਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ जिसु कारणि तनु धारिआ सो प्रभु डिठा नालि ॥ Jis kāraṇ ṯan ḏẖāri▫ā so parabẖ diṯẖā nāl. I have seen with me the Lord, for seeking whom I assumed this body. ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਣੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲਿ ॥੨॥ जलि थलि महीअलि पूरिआ प्रभु आपणी नदरि निहालि ॥२॥ Jal thal mahī▫al pūri▫ā parabẖ āpṇī naḏar nihāl. ||2|| The Lord who is pervading the Water, earth and the space beholdeth (every one) with his Grace. ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਇਆ ਲਾਗੀ ਸਾਚੁ ਪਰੀਤਿ ॥ मनु तनु निरमलु होइआ लागी साचु परीति ॥ Man ṯan nirmal ho▫i▫ā lāgī sācẖ parīṯ. By enshrining affection for the True Lord, the soul and body become pure. ਚਰਣ ਭਜੇ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਸਭਿ ਜਪ ਤਪ ਤਿਨ ਹੀ ਕੀਤਿ ॥੩॥ चरण भजे पारब्रहम के सभि जप तप तिन ही कीति ॥३॥ Cẖaraṇ bẖaje pārbarahm ke sabẖ jap ṯap ṯin hī kīṯ. ||3|| He who thinks of the feet of Lofty Lord, he is deemed to have performed all the worships and austerities. ਰਤਨ ਜਵੇਹਰ ਮਾਣਿਕਾ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਉ ॥ रतन जवेहर माणिका अम्रितु हरि का नाउ ॥ Raṯan javehar māṇikā amriṯ har kā nā▫o. The Name of God is like the Nectar, the Gem, the Ruby and the Pear. ਸੂਖ ਸਹਜ ਆਨੰਦ ਰਸ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਉ ॥੪॥੧੭॥੮੭॥ सूख सहज आनंद रस जन नानक हरि गुण गाउ ॥४॥१७॥८७॥ Sūkẖ sahj ānanḏ ras jan Nānak har guṇ gā▫o. ||4||17||87|| By singing the praises of God, O slave Nanak! celestial beatitude, the essence of all the happiness is obtained. SGGS Ang 48 ?? Dhan Guru Arjan Dev ji

Good detailed response.

Either you can tolerate them or either you can strike at their ideology and wipe them out.

Thing about the Dawa guys is that while others are there to listen and learn something new but the dawa guys are there to argue and disprove their opponents which they try to do with Bhai Jagraj Singh but fail to do everytime. Even Godless atheists were on the side of Jagraj Singh. These salafist dawa types try to act very "logical" using your own scripture against you. They do this with Christians everytime. At first Christians had no answer to this since they did not know much about Quran Hadiths or about Prophet Muhammad. But now they are catching up with people like David Wood who beats Muslims in debates including scholars like Shabir Ally.

While Punjabis are average taller than other South Asians but in this study which deals with British born Sikh kids, diet has a lot to do with this. Whenever you see western born or even raised Sikh kids they are usually taller than their Indian born fathers. So diet makes a lot of difference. Here Punjabi kids are fed alot and even forced fed by their parents while growing up. I remember seeing a study about the two Koreas. The South koreans whose kids have a better diet are on average taller than north Korean.

ਆਪਿ ਨਰਾਇਣੁ ਕਲਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਵਰਿਯਉ ॥ आपि नराइणु कला धारि जग महि परवरियउ ॥ Āp narā▫iṇ kalā ḏẖār jag mėh parvari▫ya▫o. The Lord Himself wielded His Power and entered the world. ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ਜੋਤਿ ਜਗ ਮੰਡਲਿ ਕਰਿਯਉ ॥ निरंकारि आकारु जोति जग मंडलि करियउ ॥ Nirankār ākār joṯ jag mandal kari▫ya▫o. The Formless Lord took form, and with His Light He illuminated the realms of the world. ਜਹ ਕਹ ਤਹ ਭਰਪੂਰੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਦੀਪਕਿ ਦੀਪਾਯਉ ॥ जह कह तह भरपूरु सबदु दीपकि दीपायउ ॥ Jah kah ṯah bẖarpūr sabaḏ ḏīpak ḏīpā▫ya▫o. He is All-pervading everywhere; the Lamp of the Shabad, the Word, has been lit. ਜਿਹ ਸਿਖਹ ਸੰਗ੍ਰਹਿਓ ਤਤੁ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਣ ਮਿਲਾਯਉ ॥ जिह सिखह संग्रहिओ ततु हरि चरण मिलायउ ॥ Jih sikẖah sangarahi▫o ṯaṯ har cẖaraṇ milā▫ya▫o. Whoever gathers in the essence of the teachings shall be absorbed in the Feet of the Lord. ਨਾਨਕ ਕੁਲਿ ਨਿੰਮਲੁ ਅਵਤਰ੍ਯ੍ਯਿਉ ਅੰਗਦ ਲਹਣੇ ਸੰਗਿ ਹੁਅ ॥ नानक कुलि निमलु अवतरि्यउ अंगद लहणे संगि हुअ ॥ Nānak kul nimmal avṯar▫yi▫o angaḏ lahṇe sang hu▫a. Lehnaa, who became Guru Angad, and Guru Amar Daas, have been reincarnated into the pure house of Guru Nanak. ਗੁਰ ਅਮਰਦਾਸ ਤਾਰਣ ਤਰਣ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਪਾ ਸਰਣਿ ਤੁਅ ॥੨॥੧੬॥ गुर अमरदास तारण तरण जनम जनम पा सरणि तुअ ॥२॥१६॥ Gur Amarḏās ṯāraṇ ṯaraṇ janam janam pā saraṇ ṯu▫a. ||2||16|| Guru Amar Daas is our Saving Grace, who carries us across; in lifetime after lifetime, I seek the Sanctuary of Your Feet. ||2||16||

If you are talking of the Mexico beach weddings that some Punjabis have begun to do with bikini clad women walking around then yes it is pure manmat. Besharmi di vi koi hadh hundi hai. They are trying to have their bollywood fantasy weddings, but at least they should not bring Guru Sahib in this.

Go to spain bro. Plus I hear Taj Mahal is overrated.

He is such a knowledgable person and admirable too. I am starting to wonder why he even bothers to talk to the muslims. Where are our own youngsters who should be crowding around him to listen and question Sikhism and try to understand better. Its a shame on us that the preacher of our religion is having to go through this because of us. We are not interested in our own religion. Our religion is being preached to people who dont even believe and just want to keep interrupting and putting him down. Religion is not supposed to be a discussion between whether Islam or sikhism is the correct religion. I firmly believe that he should be available for Sikh youngsters. Sikh religion is all about practicing. In our Guradwara, when we are having the word of the Guru being preached, we sit down and listen quietly. That is the only way that it will be able to go into our minds and make a difference to our souls. We are being put into doubts on our own religion when we are having to listen to questions which the muslims keep posing. I think these muslims are being totally disrespectful and this should be looked into. Our preacher should be preaching to Sikhs and being treated with great respect. He is preaching the name of God - not going out to sell something. Well those are my own thoughts. Its not in my hands at the end of the day - it may be God's will.

Yes I will probably go to India as I will also hopefully have the advantage of speaking the language but saying that alot of people in India speak english well.

Although this may not be a huge attraction, but I feel every Gurdwara in the west should have a small gym room for weight training and our youth/young men should be encouraged to get physically fit with strong arms and legs the way sons of Guru Gobind Singh jee should look. Along with this, gatka classes need to incorporate mma into their training.

stop fighting inside Gurudwaras ,especially West Gurdwaras.

Forget about Kohinoor. It is a material object with material value. We should focus our efforts on all the priceless historical books, documents letters, and even centuries old SGGS saroops that all went missing in Operation Blue Star 1984. That was a much larger part of our history, and now it is missing. We should be asking for those things back instead which were looted from the Sikh Reference Library. Its just a diamond, it has a pricetag. But that library was a priceless khajana of knowledge and history

Some good intiatives on the seva. However, we all need to make sure we keep bhagti in our back of head-do bhagti while we do seva. Sri guru nanak dev ji bless us with sehaj marg in kalyuga where one can do nishkam seva among other social/family chores while being (bairagi/udasi) de-attached (personal feeling) to seva and attached to the center theme naam/gyan- Vahiguroo. I must have wasted 7 years since 2003 on and off when i got into forum business by personally getting too attached to the issues which have over shadowed my central theme focus -shabad. Overall i have no regrets, just learning from things by getting guidance from senior gurmukhs -moving on the path. So people its good to learn from your mistakes but its even wiser to learn from other people mistakes here it is..whatever seva you do - do it without any personal attachment -niskham without any expectations of any results be it good or bad and make vahiguroo naam simran as your central theme.