Ban On Short Hair Marriages

[anjaan]

I also agree with DD on the point he/she made on reforming our own families first, like my cousin got married and he did not even know which way to walk around Guru ji never mind anything else!

[All-Info]

It's riciculous to marry two people that aren't sikhs in a sikh temple. It's like taking a jew and saying ur getting married in a mosque. It doesn't make sense. This IS NOT an argument about taking amrit and then getting married, this is about people that cut their hair, and want to get married in a gurudwara.

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Who wants to write the next conversion story? and who wants to be the next person fighting on the doors of the law to prevent SIKHS talking MAHARAJ to a private hall for a wedding?

Is it not written in Bani that everyone is entitled to enter a Gurdwara? Gurus house is open to all? Seriously all the brothers and sisters who have written they are in full agreeance, please think. Have you always had your kesh and lived in that environment?

What about those like myself, who have been born and had a hair cut from day 1, only by my own choice and Guru's Kirpa did i take the step to keeping the Gift from Maharaj.

Like i said, the principle makes sense, but do you really want to push away what little sikhs we have left?

To me it is a known fact that hair cut bros and sis do so much seva, i see it everyday. Yet they always seem to get the stick. I told my mum and sister earlier, and they shouted at me for it. What have i done? nothing. this is the image Sikhs who carry Guru's roop imply.

Im not perfect, i know that, i still have many paps and will have many more.. But because of that it makes me who i am.

I earlier said i agree with the principal, im soon starting to change my mind.. Reason is, i know more hair cut sikhs that care more about sikhi then Kesh Dhari. When i was at uni, we had the Al-Mahajaroun, it was hair cut singhs who gave us great support. I had an amrit dhari singh who said he wasnt going because he was scared of have a chapal thrown at his head. those were his exact words. Ask yourself, who cares more bout Guru Ji sitting in Darbar Sahib. Those who have been given a gift and abuse the hell out of it? or those who know mistakes and admit them, but have not yet got it in them to change their ways. At uni, a Singhs dastaar got taken off in a rumble over india v pakistan match last yr. Who were the people on the front line ready to sort out the problem? Hair Cuts. Why? Coz they know something many Sikhs with Dastars dont. Thats your Gurus Dastar. Not yours. Your Gurus. So by right they have the choice if they wish to have a sikh wedding then to have one. Yeh they may not know what it means but they still should have the option.

Sorry to go on. Having disscussed with my mum after my last post, i thought about a few things.

Yes we should keep Gurus Rehat and Hukham but some people do not have that strength inside them. So is it right to deprive them of what little piyaar they have for my Guru? I dnt think so, but as said, im jst a papi and my voice does not count.

Many apologies for offences made. I see the world in both lights because i have been in the shoes of the other side. I have seen both lights. I know which i prefer but because of my up brining, i am not to forget where i came from. There are only a few decent Kesh Dhari in the world now, there are many more Monay that are prob better hearted. They just dont know it yet.

WJKK WJKF

All-Info

[smartsingh24]

so there is no place for Sehijdharis sikhs in the Dharm of Baba Nanak?

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Didn't mean that. What I'm trying to get at, is that if you want to be a sikh, the first thing on that path should be keeping your hair. Without hair, you've lost your identity. It's what sets us apart immediatley from the crowd.

I dunno, maybe i'm out of line. I've had my hair all my life, can't imagine what other go through to try and keep it, butt I think they're probably more in sikhi than some other sikhs I know. To go from being without sikhi to becoming full fledged sikhi is making a 180 degree turn, and I admire everyone that does make that leap. In my screwy mind, I find that hair should be given a large amount of importance, and that in order to get married in a gurdwara, you have to look like a sikh. There's been so many people that have died of the years, so many sacrifices made just so that we could have the opportunity to practice our religion, and I just find it disgusting that people would spit in the faces of all those who gave their lives to give us our chance at being a sikh. And then to go and demand a marriage in a gurdwara? It just boggles my mind. But that's just me. Dunno how anyone else is looking at this, because i'm looking at the deeper meaning behind this. Or mabe i'm just over-analyzing the situation, in which case i'm sorry. Don't get too worked up over my posts, most of them are just garbage. <_<

[Mukhraj_Singh]

Wow!!! i can't believe some of the posts in here....i can't believe what ppl are saying....first of all....who are WE (ANY OF US) to judge any other person in this world....who are the ppl in this commity to say who can get married in a gurughar or not...i thought every1 was supposed to b treated equally in sikhi?...what happened to that?....i totally agree with wha sony, Daasn Daas n Princess are saying....this is NOT goit to bring ppl toward sikhi...its gonna drive ppl away....i mean think about it...wha brings ppl to sikhi...the luv for the gurus the fact that we don't pressure ppl into it...we give them their own time...because not EVERY1 knows in their early years about the luv for guru ji...i mean jus because we haven't found that luv yet...does that make us any less SIKH then any of the ppl who have found that luv?....i'm mind mind NO it doesn't...and as for myself....i have not taken amrit yet...because i believe i am not yet ready...but when i do become ready i will....we shouldn't pressure ppl into sikhi...because if u want to take amrit u have to know that u will follow everything n u will NOT break it....because in my mind....its better that i wait now...then rush into it n break my amrit....that in my mind is wayyyyyyy worse....so to the ppl sayin this is a good idea....you really need to think about it.....and 1 last thing...i AGREE with what Daasn Daas veerji said....we have alot of bigger issues to worry about...and he really did mention some great ones...

thas jus my view...

Bhul Chuk Maph!

[anjaan]

i also forgot to add...

it is not just about 'hair' i.e. just because a guy has long hair and ties it in a joora and adorns a turban upon his head does not make him a 'Sikh'. It's his actions which will determine that, so what is the point of this ban? Say someone grows their hair just to get married and then after the anand karaj goes off to the local boozer or whatever and carries on doing whatever they want to do. A non-sikh will think something like"hey there goes a Sikh and look he's piss*d". And say there is a mona with genuine piaar for Sikhi and does all the things Sikhi requires yet has not received the gift of Amrit, where is he meant to go?

[Princess]

Nicely put 'All-Info'. And Daasn Daas (u get ur great posts from me <_< :TH: )

anyway, that's exactly my point, by placing a ban, we are being pushed farther and farther away, even though Sikhi is about helping people. Can we really say we've helped people even though we were the ones to push them away.

Ya smartsingh i guess it does depend on how you were brought up, and just because we were brought up one way we still dont have any right to judge others just because they were brought up another way.

Taking my personal example, I've been brought up in a family where my dad cuts his hair, so as a child so did I. Now as a university student i still cut my hair and other things that are against Sikhi. However, how many of you can actually BLAME me because I didn't have the same oppurtunity as you to learn about Sikhi. Now as a mature person I've learned a few things about Sikhi and I still have alot to learn. I am trying to put in some effort to learn more and with the help of some great amritdhari Sikhs I have begun to understand Sikhi more. My brother is amritdhari and I'm not, but just because I'm not amritdhari I don't have the same rights as my brother in Sikhi? How fair is that, even though Sikhi is all for equality. Ya that can be argued but think about it ...

Most of us who are 'monai' have great love for Sikhi and I don;t think ANYONE (amritdhari, kesdhari, or ANYONE) has the right to say that we don't. I've seen from personal experiences many "amritdhari's" whom most people in this thread are saying should be the only ones to have Sikhi Weddings at Gurudwara do things that I as a non-amritdhari would NEVER do.

Secretly cut their hair and use a keski to cover it so her amritdhari parents will not find out their daughter has broken her amrit. Dye their hair and noone will find out because they have keskis/turbans to hide it.

I KNOW if i take amrit i shouldn't be doing things like drinking alcohol, smoking, etc. But i've seen many people who are amritdhari that do that yet they can have their weddings performed at Gurudwaras just because they LOOK like an amritdhari Sikh, and because i don't LOOK like one, I cannot, hmm seems pretty fair huh ?

[00gurpreet_singh00]

No one was amrithdari at that time but there were many marriages that happened. I wouldnt doubt even muslims and hindus that got married in present of guru sahib ji and maybe later guru kripa naal kept their hair or became amritdhari when Guru Gobind Singh ji made Khalsa.

Actually sikhs at that time were amritdhari, they didnt take khande battay di amrit but they did take charan di amrit.

Even if you say sehajdhari sikhs are still sikhs, what is a sehajdhari sikh? im pretty sure a sehajdhari sikh is someone who keeps their hair ansd follows other basic tenets of sikhi.

so, why would someone thats not a sikh want a sikh wedding? YOu guys are acting like anand karaj is just a ritual, that you do parkarma of guru sahib 4 times, when in fact its a lot deeper than that.

[Jaspaul Singh]

No one was amrithdari at that time but there were many marriages that happened. I wouldnt doubt even muslims and hindus that got married in present of guru sahib ji and maybe later guru kripa naal kept their hair or became amritdhari when Guru Gobind Singh ji made Khalsa.

Actually sikhs at that time were amritdhari, they didnt take khande battay di amrit but they did take charan di amrit.

Even if you say sehajdhari sikhs are still sikhs, what is a sehajdhari sikh? im pretty sure a sehajdhari sikh is someone who keeps their hair ansd follows other basic tenets of sikhi.

so, why would someone thats not a sikh want a sikh wedding? YOu guys are acting like anand karaj is just a ritual, that you do parkarma of guru sahib 4 times, when in fact its a lot deeper than that.

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Veerji,

I have known that singhs in the past have taken amrit through charan but not all who had anand karaj done were not all sikhs ?? Can you prove this point wrong, if not, than please give me proof that only SIKHS (Amritdhari) were only accounted for anand karaj...

Also, we are not implying it as a ritual. I have read the meanings of the lavaan in english (which is no where anything compared to it in gurmukhi..) but.. its saying you will forever be a sacrifice to your guru, it saying a strong message to those gurmukhs. Yes, the ones who are getting married, may not be gurmukhs, but who are we to say. Who knows in future guru ji does his kripa on them..

Anand Karaj is not a joke, and should not be done over and over again, i am totally against that. You are only to have one partner,and to be only married once. If only the explanation of what guru sahib is telling in the lavaan is more clear to everyone present in the diwaan during marriage (expecially the couple) ... maybe then everyone who get married is guru wale...

[harryhans]

i totally disagreed with this , the place wher i am staying is hardly can notice a amritdhari gursikh when ever i goes to gudwara, futher more it is trying to part the sikhs in to 2 groups like those amritdhari and non amritdhari.

My sis just walk in my room and also read this post and told me

" veer ji for this reason you keeping your kesh wht aboout those like me, in future thats it we don,t need to go to temple so wher shall we go ... to church .

wht i am trying to say is it will apart us all

i knew that my guru ji tought me about humanity, and help those who needed it.

what will happen to those sikhs who is changing their life to gursikh jiwan ....

[00gurpreet_singh00]

in the same way i can prove that only sikhs did anand karaj in purataan times, you cant prove that non-sikhs did anand karaj in purataan times. So that arguement is not valid.

Look at 99% of "sikh" marriages, no one pays attention to anand karaj, except close family and relatives. The groom grows a trimmed beard, which is shaven off right after the anand karaj "ceremony" and the bride and groom do parkarma of guru sahib 4 times, without knowing the meaning.

How can you say this is not a ritual?

Ma bye banning non-sikhs from anand karaj isnt the right step to take, but something has to be done to change how marriages are done in gurdwaras. Atleast the CGPC (whoever they are) are trying to do something, atleast their motvie is right.

We just sit on the computer and complain on forums and blogs, atleast these people are doing something