degradation of kirtan

[drawrof]

For a while now, people have been asking me what it is about raag kirtan I

Find so appealing etc, and why I can’t get into akhand kirtan at times.

I feel sikhi is so rich, our religion isn’t about structures but feeling the essence.

Our place of worship is a sovereign’s court.

You have a sovereign in the center above everyone: sri guru granth sahib ji

You bow down to the sovereign: matha tayk (its because you are bowing down to the truth and the human ideals as well as the intimate encounters with god, as scribed

By the guru’s.)

You have a fly whisk (chaur sahib): a sign of veneration indicative of royal presence

You have an offering made to the king: bheta (matha teyk money)

You have prashaaad: which is a blessing/offering made by the sovereign to the subjects.

You have people of all backgrounds, races, castes, genders eligible for participation in courtly duties

You even have court music!

It is an interesting fact to note that kings all kept the best musicians in their courts, and played music that was only for the elite. Ie. Dhrupadh. , if you want to hear true dhrupadh, listen to bhai avtar singh…(main banjaran raam ki, rag= gauri bairagan, taal=chaartaal)

Guru sahib allowed EVERYONE to hear the courtly music and made courtly music, as well as divine hymns, as well as seva all available for the masses.

On the one hand you had akbar, shah jahan etc…who had the best musicians but only the elite could hear their music. Then you had the brahmans who kept the sacred scriptures to theirselves….

On the guru’s side. It was open access for all.now, the court musicians also included people like rababi’s ( a group of ballad singers called mirasi’s, many of muslim descent, who were RAISED to the status of rababi’s….singers of god’s hymns)…this is a term introduced by the guru’s.

Now, the music was also geared for the masses and you had ballads (vaars).

All of us have heard the uplifting asa ki // (again listen to either the naamdhari’s,

Bhai avtar singh, or even the zakhmi’s to get an idea of how it sounds). Bhai avtar singh

And the naamdhari’s definitely sing it in TUNDAY asraaj ki dhuni.

There are other vaars as well: kaanra ki vaar, basaant ki vaar etc….NOW,

Get ready to get dazzled…

This link is a link to kaanray ki vaar (the way folk SHOULD sound):

http://www.khalis.net/SikhAwareness/Audio/...ngh%20works.mp3

THIS next one is a BASETI, a disgusting example of how we as Sikhs don’t respect

Guru maharaj as a sovereign…..after listening to the 2, tell me which you think sounds more akin to royalty (btw, forward this one to 1:05 and then listen to it all the way through).

(due to reasons explained further, this link has been removed).

In closing, guru ji blessed us with music and poetry, lets not systemically castrate it.

[Jaspaul Singh]

Bhai avtar singh is just AMAAAAAAZING .. i luv his pyaar of sikhi and the way he performs kirtan... JUST AAAAMAAAAZING !!!

... and regards to the second link ... i don tknow the singh but i think he has as much pyaar u never know ... wat if he jsut got so much josh in da simran at that time... lets just say he was reli into the simran at that time as i know many others singhs who get into it ... :e:

[drawrof]

(this link has been appropriately removed).

this is the correct link

singh, you are missing my point!

this wouldn't be allowed in guruji's darbar as a court brings people up to a level..notthing like this.

look into kirtan maryada and you'll see what I mean, also simran is a new addition to the kirtan darbar (it wasn't done in our guru's time....I don't see why we need to justify it. This is plain wrong. I don't care to take away anyone's enjoyment from simran, hence I have no issues..but this is ludicrous)!!!

[Guest Akaal108]

I listened to this 2nd part..who are these people?? are they posssessed or something with evil spirit???

i couldn't beleive my ears, this is such a mockery of Guru Maharaj Kirtan...distortation of word- Vahiguroo.....grrrrrrrrrrrrrugrrrrrrrrrrr....what is that man?? this is even worse than bhangra..actually can't compare with bhangra...atleast bhangra have its cultural hertiage!!!!!!!!!

what a load of *****!

[Jaspaul Singh]

drawof ji... :doh:

Thats fine singha... those are your beliefs...

but i believe if it brings so many people into sikhi ... why not ?

i know what your trying to get at ... that is fine... but i guess life goes on ... its good to learn about our history and how our guru ji use to do kirtan etc...

but if someone started something else now like bhai sahib randheer singh... now there is soo much pyaar there and look how many came into sikhi and had a great gursikhi jeevan ... (btw im no akj or anything like that ... i like to stay neutral... )

so like i said ... great information bro :doh:

[Jaspaul Singh]

I listened to this 2nd part..who are these people?? are they posssessed or something with evil spirit???

i couldn't beleive my ears, this is such a mockery of Guru Maharaj Kirtan...distortation of word- Vahiguroo.....grrrrrrrrrrrrrugrrrrrrrrrrr....what is that man?? this is even worse than bhangra..actually can't compare with bhangra...atleast bhangra have its cultural hertiage!!!!!!!!!

what a load of ***** !

101574[/snapback]

That is fine singh if u wana believe dat... but not knowing who that kirtanee is ... not knowing what kind of atmosphere it was at that time... not knowing if he did it on 'purpose' or not ... u have no rite to say dat... for all we know he may not have known he was doing dat he prob was in so much josh ... u just have to experience it and i geuss we r not at that stage yet... some like doing quiet relaxing simran ... some hardcore... so just chill bro ... :doh:

[Gurpreet Singh]

Thanks for sharing the link of Bhai Avtar Singh...I think I have been missing out on Raag Kirtan....and about the second link...thats some crazy stuff but im not at the avastha to comment on it.....

heres something else i found....

Aye Mil Gursikh Aaye Mil

[Guest Akaal108]

Singh let me be clear yaar..I simply don't have any problem him doing that in his house hold close doors but if he is screaming and yelling like this in Guru Maharaj Darbar ..this is nothing but insult to Guru Maharaj..straight up...it's not insult that kirtan he is doing is not in raags but it's INSULT because he is screaming, yelling, distorting sacred word- Vahiguroo/Guru as grrrrrrrrguuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrr infront of Guru Maharaj's Darbar. what is that ??

One of my freind who is new comer to sikhi ..i convinced her finally to go to bhai sahib harmeet singh ji's class at dixie .. she went ..she loved it and all but when she went to guru maharaj darbar to listen to the simran....same thing was happening for 3 minutes ..she got completely put off by them.she phoned me really disappointed..is this what you call simran?? if yes, then this is scary man...she and her mother walked off....she was really scared by how simran was done?? like as if they are posssessed with evil spirits in Guru Maharaj Darbar...now i have try my best to convince her that sikh religion does not beleive in this kinda screaming and yelling kirtan/simran and distortation of sacred word.. !

really disappointed !

Last thing i want to see on this forum people defending this kinda grrrrrrrrrgrrrrrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuu screamin, yelling simran.

[Jaspaul Singh]

Singh let me be clear yaar..I simply don't have any problem him doing that in his house hold close doors but if he is screaming and yelling like this in Guru Maharaj Darbar ..this is nothing but insult to Guru Maharaj..straight up...it's not insult that  kirtan he is doing is not in raags but it's INSULT because he is screaming, yelling, distorting sacred word- Vahiguroo/Guru as grrrrrrrrguuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrr infront of Guru Maharaj's Darbar. what is that ??

One of my freind who is new comer to sikhi ..i convinced her finally to go to bhai sahib harmeet singh ji's class at dixie .. she went ..she loved it and all but when she went to guru maharaj darbar to listen to the simran....same thing was happening for 3 minutes ..she got completely put off by them.she phoned me really disappointed..is this what you call simran?? if yes, then this is scary man...she and her mother walked off....she was really scared by how simran was done?? like as if they are posssessed with evil spirits in Guru Maharaj Darbar...now i have try my best to convince her that sikh religion does not beleive in this kinda screaming and yelling kirtan/simran and distortation of sacred word.. !

really disappointed !

Last thing i want to see on this forum people defending this kinda grrrrrrrrrgrrrrrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuu screamin, yelling simran.

101579[/snapback]

hmm..

like i said its TOTALLY upto the person how they want to listen to kirtan. Some get turned off by raag (sorry to say but people dont getinto sikhi all the same reasons).. if someone got turned off by this im sorry .. but im a living example that i got reli attached to sikhi BECAUSE of this type of kirtan...

... and i love simran on fridays and singh ... do u know how much sangat use to come on fridays... lol ... not too much ... its cuz of harmeets classes and SIMRAN ... that they do at the end... that the halls are PACKED now...

... singh u have ur opinion.. dats cool... lets dont attack anyone else...

[drawrof]

Gurfateh ji,

bhai attar singh mastuana wallay ji,

bhai isher singh rarray sahib wallay ji,

bhai randhir singh ji,

These 3 great souls lived lives that were true to their beliefs and were definitely beyond anything the "average" chardikallah sikh is.

Now, The first 2 gurmukhs used "dharna's"; bhai sahib was known for doing kirtan with the vaaja. the simran came MUCH later. I read in "kirtan nirmolak heera attay sangeet kala" by bhai gurcharan singh (elder brother of bhai avtar singh)

that bhai randhir singh used to have their father baba jawala singh do kirtan at their rehansabhai's etc.....they said bhai sahib was especially fond of the old reets that were in larger taals.....

now, my point is that I don't think that the darbar system should be compromised, and I don't think that laziness on our part or anything should undermine guruji. One can easily question what we're about if its just to get a high....if you want josh, then we are allowed to do "taraanas" from sarabloh granth or bir ras baani from dasam granth

I am not particularly fond of simran, but I'll re-assert, It gets people into sikhi and if it gives them peace, I'm totally cool...Now, I don't feel though that compromising guruji's system of kirtan/raags etc etc...style of kirtan is right. I stand firm by that

ie. raag bibaas (eyk ratee bin eyk ratee ke, by bhai avtar singh ji) is a raag which is not found anywhere in classical hindustani music, it was born and bred in the sikhs darbar......(and this is catchy)...why do put that aside?

music, poetry, genres of music, a royal court...this is class (things are dignified)...we are actively choosing to support the destruction of our heritage by not promoting something that was so developed

did you know a hindi movie musical director named naushad said in the 60's that he used to go to darbar sahib in his youth to get inspiration for tunes for hindi films?....at least the films they had back then dealt with social issues, now we as a panth are doing the opposite by incorporating filth..(I know it sounds strong singh, but just try to see it from my point of view).

I hope my words have not hurt anyone but if they have..please listen to bhai avtar singh to see what you're missing.