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[SSM]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Deh Shiva bar mohe ihai

Grant me this boon O God

shubh karman the kabhu na taroo

May I never refrain from the righteous acts;

anyone want to argue with this? 

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

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what if u get tired

OK I think everyone esp my wrote as much bakwaas as was humanly possible and now I think we need to just keep a look out for our sis's whether they are sikh or hindu or even muslim by chance. I mean why not?

I didn't read prop but I think someone said strict families good like pakis- nai cos no offence but when pakis keep the girl under lock and key and then surprise surprise she runs away from home or gets pregnant it shows its not a good idea. I mean it s like sending ur kid to a same sex scool and then they may get all excited when they see a opposite same sex scool (I mean go to INdia to getwhat I'm on abt). People, like Randip Singh Veerji said in the 'University' thread said, we need to live in the world. We cant hide girls, we need to teach them and then let them loose and because our sikhi and pyar will be so strong and we would have PASSED IT on to our children we wont have anything to fear.

LIke my mum ate my head in as a little girl abt the pakis and I loved the stories abt the Shshotte Sahibzaade. But I was taught abt sikhi and the Gurus from like day one. Now, I have my muslim friends, I go to the islamic events to learn stuff and I have had so many ppl try to convert me its amazing... but it wont affect me cos of Guru Ji and have these parents. But if I didnt I wander what I would have been like: maybe converted to islam and practising in pakistan and being sold never know. Its soooooooooooooo much upto the parents but really its upto Guru Ji.

Anyway GOOD LUCk everyone as we all try to keep our eyes open.

One side note, oh my inability to stop chatting bakwas: if you want to help someoen talk to them in their language hunna, no I'm not talking abt english here

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[sikh supreme]

I think your right SSM, we will agree to disagree. Your path is one of you can do what ever you want and its OK. My path is if you step outside the faith and date non-sikhs you have to take responsibility for you actions..

I never been to Islamic socity meetings because I've not been invited but I know many Sikh/Hindu girls are invited and some do go. What does that say about their tactics? Girls are naive. If you were a guy you would understand the real motives. But I guess some of you people will only learn the hard way.

I want to ask a question.... If I perfered a Muslim girl to your average Sikh girl would it now be acceptable for me to have a relationship with her with intent to marrying her?

[SSM]

ok bro serious misunderstandings.

my path is NOT u can do what u want and then come back and we will support u.

I don't encourage ppl to go out of their faith to do what they want and then not take responsibility for it but I do say they have suffered now it is upto us to help them regardless of who they are.

OK let me explain my situation at uni/college and out of uni- a lot of my friends are muslims.

I have friends of 2 types or should I say extremes:

The ones that are respectable girls and the ones that have slept around and get drunk and cant remember what exactly happened with the bloke.

I'm tight with both types but when it comes to college and uni I keep mates who are not going to start checking out the guy's backside SO that means mainly muslims in my class.

Outside uni I have mates who get upto the rest ok...sadly that means sikhs and hindus now and gosh v.few muslims.

But at uni most of my mates are muslims who do come to sikh events with me and I do go to islamic events with them.

When I go I dont start smiling at everyone and ask how one can convert.

I have debates with them, it is actually great fun lol as long as u done some research b4hand.

My muslim friends are not all that religious so I encouraged a lot of them to start praying more and go to events, so they do and to support some of them I go with them (not to pray lollops). They go and learn and I go and debate.

I teach them a lot about sikhism in the whole debate process lol.

In fact some of these muslims know so much about sikhism because they have to to try and convert u and then there are some that no nothing so when u either set their facts straight or u teach them u leave them surprised at the beauty of ur religion.

I mean lol I been to so many islamic stalls and they come out with really intelligent reasons for someone to convert but if u have the right answers then u leave them quiet and some are like wow and then they go quiet and dont try to convert u. If u leave a muslim speechless it is good cos they may think twice b4 approaching any sikh or so I think.

Haha some will only learn the hard way you said, mate veerji with God's grace I would never date a muslim no matter how bolloywood gooey he was yukk.

I do know a lot of muslim guys but I wouldnt exactly call them my friends, yes i know exactly whats going on in side their little head. But as far as I'm concerned, use common sense, stick to public places, keep an eye on drink cos could be spiked and once u got all that sorted carry on debating and being 'friends'.

Some girls are naive but I dont think I am.

To answer ur last Q: if u did that then it would be wrong unless she wanted to for religious reasons only, embrace sikhism. Say u did marry her otherwise and she treated u like bakwass and then u want to turn back then my reaction would be this:

in my head I would think u dum <banned word filter activated>, come back have u, didnt u know b4 u got into it or maybe I'd feel sorry for u, dunno.

But on the outside I would tell u to come with me to the Gurdwara and ask Guru Ji for forgiveness and to pray and with that I would be there by ur side to ensure u r not leaving sikhi again and if u again started moving away I would remind u of the past and what Guru Ji can offer u now. And then I would sing u up at Havelock Road Matrimonial Service and get u to marry a sikh girl and ..... they lived happily everafter.ahhhh.

Bro u seem so bitter, I know its cos u care(or is it lol) but all I say is dont make examples of them and reasons for that are in my other post. And just try to help who u can, no point in beating up pakis if u cant control ur women hunna so no matter what help these women but like i said talk to them in their language and not i told u so or see what happened last time: mate thats not gonna help.

Well dont u dare marry a muslim or else ...

but now u know my life hopefully u think differently of me

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[sikh supreme]

I see where you coming from sis,

And your right I am bitter.... mainly cos of I did my best to help out these kind of girls and my efforts were in vain.

I live in London also strangely I have mixed bunch of friends but to me Sikhs always come first no matter what because I know the crap our people have gone through in history and even today. At uni and college I always used to get on more with Muslim girls than most Sikh girls because I found muslim girls having the same kind of values I like for in a girl, while the Sikh girls I came in contact with were the kind that went around acting like slappers. When I tried to question them, debate with them, reason with them to why they thought they were Sikh while they drank, smoke, slept around. I would end up feeling frustrated because they would listen one day and then carrying on acting they way they did after.

I had muslim mates at uni also they were friendly enough but when ever they went clubbing they looked for non-muslim girls to bring to their flats / accomdation to sleep with. One time I happened to be at a mates flat, chilling out, when this guy brought in this girl called gurinder. She was dressed like a proper slag and I knew what she was there for. This further made me disillusioned.

Because if our "sikh" girls are willingly going off and having sex with non-sikhs. Why are we wasting our time and energy on them... it's not like they are getting abducted and forced into something.

Whereas this one muslim girl I knew I grew really close too I had lots of respect for, she would be my ideal woman had she been Sikh. But cos she was muslim I knew there was no point in a relationship... but it goes to show that guys also have oppertunities to go off with Muslim girls but we don't for the sake of the faith. And even if some of us do, I have never come across a case of a Sikh guy converting to Islam for a muslim woman its always been the woman who converts whether its Islam or Sikhism.

As for you attending Islamic society..thats upto you, if you enjoy debating thats all gud so do I... but funny how Sikh/Hindu GUYS aint invited to these events yet girls they bend over backwards to welcome in.

Don't worry im not to marry a muslim girl anytime soon, however tempting it maybe, God willing.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[Sinner]

WJKK WJKF

My path is if you step outside the faith and date non-sikhs you have to take responsibility for you actions..

My point exactly.

At uni and college I always used to get on more with Muslim girls than most Sikh girls because I found muslim girls having the same kind of values I like for in a girl, while the Sikh girls I came in contact with were the kind that went around acting like slappers. When I tried to question them, debate with them, reason with them to why they thought they were Sikh while they drank, smoke, slept around. I would end up feeling frustrated because they would listen one day and then carrying on acting they way they did after.

Yeh I agree, they’re full of hypocrisy; it goes through one ear and out the other.

There are some crucial points being made, though not enough ears are paying attention.

[SSM]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

bro ur last post was so honest and this time was not bitter. Thanks, really enjoyed reading it.

OK I wasted my precious lunch helping lol and they still never changed. One day they listen next day they at there dodgy stuff. But in very few of them I have seen sikhi pyar and they will cry chori chori and course theres those that dont care.

But your efforts never go in vain. One day even if it is when they are 45 they may remember what you said and although you think its too late, its not, too late for what, to still become a sikh? To turn to Guru Ji it is never too late, in fact her soul will do it eventually so maybe because of you it will be in this lifetime...maybe u know.

Ok izzat down the drain but if she returns to sikhi then she saved and that muslim didnt fully achieve what he had wanted.

OH just a crazy thought that u might be that annoying Singh I never liked cos of his attitude and I'm the Sikh 'slag' who went to islamic debates u cant stand soz I find everything funny when I'm stressed lol and anyways moving on.....

You know I thought these muslim girls were all good but a close mate was telling me that they at her school so many hijab wearing women lost their viriinity and that too with muslims who then went and bragged about it to their mates although the women thought these men would be their husbands one day. I'd never thought this would happen as much but it does. Although yeh muslim girls sleep thinking there is a chance and non muslim girls just dont care why.

In fact it shocks me more when my mates have done what they wanted to andnow and thats it they break off contact. Oh well, we just need to educate them abt sikhi... but not when u meet them the way u met gurinder hunna, i dont think she in the mood to listen then.

I think the reason women convert is because its all about taking on the husbands name and I think women are weaker when it comes to so called love which is why I feel sorry for these women who have not been brought up with love for Guru Ji but when they fall in love with a muslim they seee nothing else. That's why I dont get angry at them. They are weak.

We just need to be there when they fall and try to catch them b4 they fall if that is possible.

Abt debates, I'm soz u feel jelous lol at not being invited. But yes theres one muslim guy I only known two days and I saw him in the library, went to say hi, and he was like oh I got something for u, he had a leaflet just for me for the next event, ahhh how cute.... this is the same muslim guy that thinks suicide bombers have a point....lol I know I dont want to marry him haha.

So do u want me to sign u up for Havelock Road :doh: @ .

Just as a last point, some ppl get a bit bitter or scared about marrying a sikh for example because they had bad experiences with sikh girls so its like 'they all like this and hindus are better'.

But u know the grass always looks green on other side but I met hindus who dont like hindu women so want a sikh and sikhs who want muslims and muslims who want anyone non muslim(for separate reasons). U get me.

OK tc and yes Sinner I see ur point

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh !

[sikh supreme]

Sorry sis but I have not changed my views and I suppose you have not either. But at least we have a understanding of each others points.

I'm right wing and conservative in my views cos of experiences in life and looking at the future...I see tolerance or liberalism of this kinda behaviour will lead more and more straying on this path. And then we won't have community because people will be going out of religion to get with the person they desire at that moment of time.

As for jealous about not being invited to Islamic debates and society talks lol ... I'm not jealous trust me. Its the fact they SPECIALLY target non-muslim women to come and NOT non-muslim guys that proves their motives are to draw naive girls into their way of thinking. And you and many other have fallen for the trap, but at least you can debate with them and show them Sikhism's views on things, thats all well and gud.

But lets do a little role reversal here say if Muslim girls were handing out leftets and urging hindu/sikh guys to come to their debates/talks and not asking girls wouldnt that show you what kind of motives and intent they have?

Anyways it's been very interesting having this discussion with you .... my eyes are hurting now I think I best get some sleep lol

Good Night

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!

[Guest rsingh]

Is it the fault of out sisters? or ours, as a communitty?

true to an extent our sisters should have sence.. but we are failing to teach them about Sikhi. I have herd of the various tactics and know of people who have been converted in london unis, we have even gone and done vicahar with one guy who they are trying to convert. thing is they target the "panjabified" sisters who dont have much knowledge, look there family might not be into sikhi, alot of us here are lucky we have been bought up in a Sikhi household. The Gurdwara should be teaching and inviting the youth. Alot of people who are afected come from panjabi house who will come to gurdwara for (davvali) bandi chor divas, vasakhi, and or guroo nanak dev jee gurpurb... that the only time if your lucky. we need to educate them where there parents are failing. this story is sad and moving unfortunatly its not the first and at this rate most deffinetly not last.

There have been claims by extreme parties such as BNP with regards to "grooming" up north of young white girls, a docunmentry was made I belive on this.

It makes you sick reading a story like that. what can you do to help? what is worse is that something similar will be happening at your university under your nose and you wont know it.

I know ont thing, NO one deserves that. No One. May Vaheguroo help people who have been through or are going through this and save them.

Let me ask you is that Love? she thought it was didnt she.

Related Links

Comparative Study: ISLAM & SIKHI

Muslim Extremists Target Students

http://www.panthic.org/news/124/ARTICLE/1859/2005-10-09.html

People often question the following site, I would say read the numerous accounts and then think if you would question? http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/

The thing that hurts me and makes me sad is a comment from an older singh, "these tactics havent change from 10-15 odd years back when I was at Uni and they where trying to convert me from a mona. the sad thing is we still havent woken up. "

[amarjeet_singh_1699]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

so let me get this straight, a woman we know could be raped, we gonna ignore cos let her suffer cos us sikhs of the Great Guru Jis know better- WE would rather go help with hoover at Gurdwara than help woman get saved from torture cos sewa at Gurdwara = phal.

Sikhs aim is heaven hunna- how we gonna achieve that thru helping a dum woman who fell for a muslim guy cos we all SUPPOSED to know we don't do that hunna.

Sarcasm over, I'm glad u apologised Sinner, u have no right to say that-its rude, but well done for at least accepting that what u said was not fair,  :T:

So Sikhs on this forum,  tell me if a woman gets married and sleeps with her husband and then one day he rapes her should she not report it or would u say its expected, he her husband, he may force her, some men are like that.

I mean thats what u seem to be saying with girls who get raped by muslims, like my example ur view doesnt make sense.

I know a muslim girl who got messed abt by a SIKH and now she dont trust men.

Tell me , why are u calling urselves sikhs yet say these woman deserve it? Why?

Cos u hate or fear muslims and think everyone should keep away from them or something?

I dont get some ppl, those that cant be bothered to help are weak, I know I havent met any of u but thats the only thing I can think of.

Ok some muslims desperate to treat sikh women bad but why are we labelling ppl sikh or hindu and forgetting that this is abt protecting someones basic human rights and NOT sitting on our backside saying ''ooh sikh girl she deserved it''.

SO WHAT if she lost her viriginity to a muslim, thats not the point, she didnt expect what came next! Read Raj bro's post again and try to understand what he said, at least u dont have to read his name to work out if he sikh or not sikh

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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"SO WHAT if she lost her viriginity to a muslim, thats not the point,"

wat a stupid thing 2 say. wat u mean so wat? as if its no big deal . she did somet very very rong and shudnt call herself a sikh, true the mulims who assulted her shud get battered, but we shudnt try be all nice to her, remeber shes not a sikh, until she takes amrit, and she does deserve to get a good telling off for doing wat she did. wether she deserved to get assaulted or not is not for me to say, but its clear she brought it on herself. and sinner shudnt have apologised he made aperfectly good comment

[amarjeet_singh_1699]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Sikh Supreme you have grown tired but a true sikh will never grow tired of helping human beings who suffer or are going onto that path.

I don't know where you are from but here in London the very well known story of a girl who went to Pak with her boyfriend for a hol and behind her parents back and was sold off. Somehow she got the opportunity to run and lol she did that- as she was running and they were running after her she saw a Gurdwara Sahib and thats where she ran to and Waheguru Ji saved  her.

If Waheguru Ji are ready to help these women then who are we to turn our backs on them.

A mate at uni once said to me- oh thats what they have to suffer- I felt ashamed that a man in front of me with a flowing beard was saying that- that too one with a sister.

Shame on all of us. With brothers like this the paks dont need to worry, they will always get a good supply of free maal.   :doh:

If I was a girl born in a sikh family and not taught anything by my mparents and I came across someoen like u and someone like that sweet muslim then I know which I would choose because ppl like u dont leave us with much choice.

Really I have something against these charities, even Pingalwara I question - what was the point of helping these ppl- oh they dont understand that its what they sow that they reap and so there is no need to help these ppl.

For example, next time we see a woman abt to be abused we should walk away, she is only suffering because she was out that late at night in the first place and knew this sort of stuff happens or its her fault she wore such revealing clothes.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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"If I was a girl born in a sikh family and not taught anything by my mparents and I came across someoen like u and someone like that sweet muslim then I know which I would choose because ppl like u dont leave us with much choice."

hahaha, how dumb is that, if u chose som dum muslim guy that wud be totally your fault, u cant blame it on the way some singhs act, u go and choose your sweet muslim but im sure after all the manmat you will deeply regret such a dumb decision.

why does evry1 think that sikhi is all about converting moneh and that??? we shudn preach, the only thing we can do is live our lives as much into sikhi as possible and then manmukhs will be inspired by our sikhi if waheguru does kirpa