Chatka

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Namstang wrote

Who are sgpc to invite anyone? it was favor done by puratan samparda's despite of sgpc outcasting them with help of british intelligence, main aim for british to get akali nihangs off their back and get chapli sikhs types in akal taktht so they can divide and rule.

Namstang, you really have no sense of history and are unable to be objective in any discussion regarding the SGPC. I have written a number of times for people such as you not to assume that just because the SGPC is corrupt at present it means that it was always so.

SGPC when it was created was the most representative body of the Sikhs. It's birth was the direct consequence of the Sikhs wanting to take back control of the Gurdwaras from Mahants who were more Hindu than Sikh and who treated the Gurdwara lands as their personal possession. I would urge you to read history and maybe then you wouldn't be making such factually incorrect statements as british intelligence helping SGPC to 'get akali nihangs off their backs' It was the british govt urging the mahants to use all their means to deny the Sikhs control of their own Gurdwaras. The British were never afraid of the Nihangs, they feared the common Sikh peasants as well as the Sikhs in the army.

[N30S1NGH]

Namstang wrote

Who are sgpc to invite anyone? it was favor done by puratan samparda's despite of sgpc outcasting them with help of british intelligence, main aim for british to get akali nihangs off their back and get chapli sikhs types in akal taktht so they can divide and rule.

Namstang, you really have no sense of history and are unable to be objective in any discussion regarding the SGPC. I have written a number of times for people such as you not to assume that just because the SGPC is corrupt at present it means that it was always so.

SGPC when it was created was the most representative body of the Sikhs. It's birth was the direct consequence of the Sikhs wanting to take back control of the Gurdwaras from Mahants who were more Hindu than Sikh and who treated the Gurdwara lands as their personal possession. I would urge you to read history and maybe then you wouldn't be making such factually incorrect statements as british intelligence helping SGPC to 'get akali nihangs off their backs' It was the british govt urging the mahants to use all their means to deny the Sikhs control of their own Gurdwaras. The British were never afraid of the Nihangs, they feared the common Sikh peasants as well as the Sikhs in the army.

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you got kitabi gian of what happened. i got oral history from Nihangs, living source- nihang gurmant singh from my area who lived in all his life in budda dal......they will conflict without any doubt...you can beleive whatever you wish and feel pleasure from it, i can beleive whatever i wish, be satisfied from oral history.. i find oral history by jathedar to be more reliable than kitabi gian written by phalna phalna singh...Ok bikkie? :e:

[Sony]

namstang, how come u didnt reply to my post?

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I don't wish to run around in circles...you took my post out of context...it's ok. you are right.

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:lol: how did i take it out of context? i thought thats what we were talking about....

[N30S1NGH]

Sorry ur right, he is, I guess just whenever I met him he spoke a lot about Baba Attar Singh Ji.

But still veerji, you keep saying that they were over the meat stuff.... but veerji, their lives ... there more then just that one story. they had so much bhagati, u cant look at that one story, if it is true, and say look at this example. what about the amount of time they spent thinking of guru ji, doing their paath, their Sikhi. Its cus of this, the way they live that they are able to rise above everything. A person who is starting off in sikhi cant start like this ji. u said urself that eating meat has an effect on a persons spirituality, so why do something that will have a negative effect when ur trying to come into sikhi? why try to push someone into that boat? why not say, ji, we know that its hard, but u need to understand that meat has this effect, and it is because of this effect that our guru ji's have told us to stay away from it. because u dont want the 5 things in ur life, and by not eating meat, u'll help to keep these controlled up to a certain point neway.....

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Sony,

I don't like to nit pick specific actions taken by mahapursh and start presenting it as maryada. I usually post sakhiya's of mahapursh which has all do with spiritual expereinces or some times post sakhiya's of their sipahi hood to get doubts out of all people mind. My only intention to present baba attar singh ji sakhi with baba chet singh ji budda dal sakhi is to challenge common mindset sikh these days have- which is black and white sikhi. do and do not and judge everyone according to that. What they don't get is, there is always exceptional cases or grey area. Take meat issue for example, you will get people who are soo binded with meat issue either pro or against that they will judge other person or group only by that factor not according to avastha. Mahapursh who are fully veggie they don't do that, they judge others by avastha. I also try to follow same type of foot steps. I am veggie myself also acknowledge that meat does affect's learner(jagiaso sikh) spirituality- especially thoughts. But I also acknowledge that once you are in certain stage then eating meat or not eating meat does not effect's anything.

Here is another one- Bhai Vir Singh Ji he himself mentioned in his book that when he was ill he had to eat meat for health reasons. will someone hold that against him and consider that as downfall in his bhagti? don't know.. depends on person's mindset if person is out of black and white sikhi then probably not, will not matter since we are not JAINS either.

[jss]

i love how namastang will ignore a topic when he's been proven wrong ..ie..mangal charan..

i also love how when someone counters his baseless statments with some actual research..he just starts accusing them of kitabi giyaan...and expects us to believe his stories cux some nihung living in TO tells him things...a nihung who's been known to change his vichars quite often depending on the "group" of people he's talking to...so yeah...really reliable source...

and i didn't see bikramjit making fun of you or shortening your name in an effort to insult you..why would you go and insult him???

really, name calling just shows how little you do know and that you're desperate...

[N30S1NGH]

love how namastang will ignore a topic when he's been proven wrong ..ie..mangal charan..

coming back to it jss, have pateince.. .. i ll scan pages where mangal charan is explained in detail and why were sants against it .. i remember reading about it few years ago.

i also love how when someone counters his baseless statments with some actual research..he just starts accusing them of kitabi giyaan...and expects us to believe his stories cux some nihung living in TO tells him things...a nihung who's been known to change his vichars quite often depending on the "group" of people he's talking to...so yeah...really reliable source...

didn't i say nihang's jathedar being main source of oral history. Nihang Gurmant Singh lived in budda dal. very close with baba surjit singh ji and baba santa singh ji. has gain vidya from buda dal including oral history from his jathedar.

and i didn't see bikramjit making fun of you or shortening your name in an effort to insult you..why would you go and insult him???

really, name calling just shows how little you do know and that you're desperate...

it's a pyaaar between brothers. me and bikkie goes really far in times..lol you won't get it..hehe

[gupt_paapi]

JSS, im pretty sure ur wrong about the mangalcharan thing, im pretty sure in most purataan saroops some mangalcharans are done as

gourre sukhmani mehalla 5

salok

Ik Oankaar Satigur prasaad

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actually wasnt it ment to be guari mehala 5..

because sukhmani is the name of bani.. its seems to jsut be added on..

lyk other banis start with raag... .. etc wihtout he name of bani.

or am i jsut rong?? :lol:

and isnt the salok AFTA ik oankaar satgur parsaad?? it seems to mke sense because this way the pattern of saloks is constant... if u get me

tell me if im wrong. if i am wrong then im such a paapi for questioning guru sahib ji!

[Singh132]

Sukhmani is a part of the bani name. Some banis do have their names given. Like "Jap", "Onkar", "Sidh Gosht", and others. Having the name of the bani with the Raag is not "just added on".

The Manglacharan point as presented by jss is correct. There were saroops printed with the Mangals first and some still are out there. I have done paath from such a saroop before.

[Jai Tegang!]

the puratan saroops at the takhts contain the mangalachran in the manner we find in the printed Birs today.

but i think the akj jatha has always had a problem with this for some reason.

[smartsingh24]

I was perusing this forum, considering this could be one of my last posts before a while, and found this. This is quite honestly one of the funniest things i've seen in a while. Here we have a doodle made in msn (i know the guy that made this) to poke fun at the recipient. And there are tons of posts on it. DROP IT. it's a doodle. get over it. there is no political statement behind it. My friend likes to screw around a bit. Get over it. He eats meat. Get over it. He's amritdhari. Get over it. You dont' need to start fighting each other over something as stupid as a small drawing. But knowing forums, no one ever lets things go. So go ahead. Fight. Half of you probably won't even read this post.