Do People Of Chamaar Caste Believe In Hinduism?

[Sabre Sword]

Thats the good thing about marrying into white singhs/singhnis.

you mean wedding Non-Punjabis not jus neccesarly white.

backwards punjabi culture is like a Big Parasite living on the sikh kaum.

In punjab, if you wher to marry a gursikh of diffrent "caste" then you'de be practically shuned and alienated from your family, such is the backwards mentality of so called sikh punjabi folk.

the dowry system is the indirectly causing, waht i call a mass genocide of females before they are born.

Sikhs that are free from the punjabi culture ailment, are very lucky indeed.

[Prem]

MKLG

Good replies. Should be read by everyone.

Yes, some chamaars are Sikh, some are Hindu. But chamaars are treated disgracefully by some Jat Sikhs, and they are no better off amongst Sikhs than they are with Hindus. It basically makes a farce of all those Sikhs who decry Hinduism because of the caste system whilst being the biggest caste bigots out there.

[randip singh]

MKLG

Good replies. Should be read by everyone.

Yes, some chamaars are Sikh, some are Hindu. But chamaars are treated disgracefully by some Jat Sikhs, and they are no better off amongst Sikhs than they are with Hindus. It basically makes a farce of all those Sikhs who decry Hinduism because of the caste system whilst being the biggest caste bigots out there.

153472[/snapback]

Hi,

Lets not bash Sikhs of Jatt origin.

We are all to blame.

When Dr Ambedkar, decreed all Dalits (Chammaars, Choorahs etc) should become Sikhs, who but up a bar against them?

As I recall Master Tara Singh was in charge.......and he was from a Sikh family of Khatri Origins.

The Gurudwara reform movement comprised of Sikhs of Jatt, Tarkan, Khatri, Khambho, Saini and other origins. These so called high castes deliberately barred Chamamrs from having any political power amongst Sikh institutions.

If we had not this, then Sikh would have ben a sizeable majority in India and we would not have to worry about Khalistan, or any other things, because we would have real power in India.

All Sikhs should hang their heads in shame for this missed opportunity, all down to caste orejudice. Therefore, I cannot blame Chamaars for behaving like hybrid Hindu/Sikhs and forming their own Paanth.

[Prem]

Randip Singh

Yes, everyone is at fault, but I have to speak honestly, and that is that in my life experience, the most virulently casteist and hypocritical bigots within the Sikh community when it comes to caste are the Jat sections of our society, the most inflexible and backwards, the ones who perpetrate the most amounts of caste consciousness and caste pride are Jatts. That is not to say others do not do it, but I must speak truthfully as a I see it, and describe the most blatant source of this backward attitude as far as I can see.

[Prem]

All Sikhs should hang their heads in shame for this missed opportunity, all down to caste orejudice. Therefore, I cannot blame Chamaars for behaving like hybrid Hindu/Sikhs and forming their own Paanth.

I agree with you - imagine if Sikhs had attracted Ambedkar, how Sikhi would have flourished in every corner of India. Such a shame that at this historical moment, Sikhs failed pathetically, so full of small minded pride they were. We have not changed on iota.

By the way, Chamaar Sikhs have not formed their own paanth. As it happens they place a certain emphasis on the teachings of Bhagat Raavi Das Ji. But they are still Sikhs, there is no question of them forming another paanth.

[superaju]

...sikh isn't a man, sikh is marayda of guru ji. who is in marayada, who is sikh.

ik bhaccha sikha de ghar janam le kar sikh nahi bannada jad tak amrit nahi shakda...

Hun taa har koi apne naam pishe Singh and Kaur lgai janda hai...is nu kehnde ne HUUD MAAT...mean Manmatt

Gur ki maat tu le iane, bhaga buna booh chube siane..!!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

i think the dr ambedkar story is interesting but deserves more scrutiny.

from what i know, his followers embraced buddhism. we have all seen the census reports of india, there are more sikhs than buddhists.

"Religion: 80% Hindu, 14% Muslim, 2.4% Christian, 2% Sikh, 0.7% Buddhist, 0.5% Jains, 0.4% other"

http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/

dalits are a majority in india and if all of dr ambedkar's followers listened to him and embraced buddhism, then there shoudl be over 50% budhists in india rather than 0.7%.

the thing is that i have heard from many sikhs, is that they didn't want people to become sikhs just because a leader told them to. they wanted people to become sikhs cause they had sharda in SGGS ji. Where have all the buddhists in india gone? i'm sure many people converted to buddhism under dr ambedkar but im also sure a sizeable chunk went back to their original faith.

personally, sikhs didn't waste a "great" opportunity. we don't want people converting to sikhi to stick it to the brahmins out of spite.

i'm not supporting what master tara singh did but i think the whole saga deserves great scrutiny.

peace.

[Jai Tegang!]

^ good point by mklq

[Lion(LK)King]

According to Sangat Singh and other historians it's because Ahmbedkar was convinced by Gandhi not to convert to Sikhi, that he didn't

Also Singh Sabha Movement came as a result of Gurdware being run by Udasis, and the fact that during Ranjit Singhs rule many (with out force9 decided to convert to Sikhi, but decided to keep the hindu rituals with them. And then came the SIngh Sabha chopping of the hindu rituals from the new Sikhs. Right now we are in a great need of a new Singh Sabha. As MQLK pointed out, if we have people converting just for the sake of converting, and not for love of Sikhi, then it is dubious if they would really adopt Sikh custom and abandon their previous ways, which would mean we would virtually become hindus... Again not support tara Singh (who did have alot of faults).

[randip singh]

i think the dr ambedkar story is interesting but deserves more scrutiny.

from what i know, his followers embraced buddhism.  we have all seen the census reports of india,  there are more sikhs than buddhists.

"Religion: 80% Hindu, 14% Muslim, 2.4% Christian, 2% Sikh, 0.7% Buddhist, 0.5% Jains, 0.4% other"

http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/

dalits are a majority in india and if all of dr ambedkar's followers listened to him and embraced buddhism, then there shoudl be over 50% budhists in india rather than 0.7%. 

the thing is that i have heard from many sikhs, is that they didn't want people to become sikhs just because a leader told them to.  they wanted people to become sikhs cause they had sharda in SGGS ji.  Where have all the buddhists in india gone?  i'm sure many people converted to buddhism under dr ambedkar but im also sure a sizeable chunk went back to their original faith.

personally, sikhs didn't waste a "great" opportunity.  we don't want people converting to sikhi to stick it to the brahmins out of spite. 

i'm not supporting what master tara singh did but i think the whole saga deserves great scrutiny.

peace.

153629[/snapback]

Some excellent points which I am aware about, but nevertheless I stand by my statement. Here are the reasons why.

The reason why I feel that these guys would have stuck to Sikhi, is the sense of upliftment Sikhi gives. Lets face it Sikhi took poor backwards, Jatts, Tarkhans, Kambho’s, Nai’s etc and turned them into rulers and warriors. I think this instilling of the Chardhikalan attitude is infectious, and something that Buddhism does not have in India. I think this would have appealed to Dalits.

Also Buddism would have meant no Social uplift. A Sikh is known as a Sardar, which by its meaning means a ruler or a leader. Buddism is in India is not associated with any particular successful community like Sikhism is.

The status of Sikhs in India as fighting men, rulers etc would have appealed to Chammars/Dalits I think. I think they would have run towards it like thirsty men to a well.

Lastly, the egalitarian message of Sikhism, in so much you are able through the waheguroo, able to forge your own destiny, and that you do not have to accept the Karmic trappings of Hinduism would have been appealing.

I am also aware of the Gandhi thing LK, but that was after it became apparent that the Sikh leadership would not really recognise Dalits in Sikhism.