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Imperfect World!


singh1986
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WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Who are we to apply our limited HUMAN views on perfection? This is the Almighty...whose every command nothing can go against. It is perfect because there is NO OTHER WAY for anything to happen. People are seeking the external utopia. Sikhi tells you to see the Will of the Almighty and understand that everything is happening EXACTLY as the Almighty will have it happen. That includes earthquakes, tornadoes, murders, genocide, happiness, births, weddings, funerals, etc.

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I see.

Recently I have been turning around to this point of view that the world started to become a lot worse place after the so-called great floods and the ice ages and then according to the bible Noah built an ark and took all kinds of plants and animals across the world looking for a dry place to land. Even then most people used to worship their ancestors and used to remember many different Gods.

Soon after according to bible came Abraham and his God called Jehovah.

Jehovah claimed he was the one and only God.

Then bible also says that this God Jehovah is a very jealous/vengeful God and doesn't like his followers from bowing down to other Gods.

It is also said that Jehovah protected his followers and destroyed his enemies. I hear rumors on how the Indus Valley civilization in modern day Sindh was destroyed. I also hear that the area in Sindh that has Indus Valley Civilization/Rama Empire has very high levels of radioactivity. I also hear the same through Internet sources that same was case in Gobi Desert Civilization and so-called Atlantis Civilization and some other civilization near Israel. It was said that these civilizations were very advanced, so why did Jehovah destroy all of them and allow medeival and backward people like Jews and Muslims to take over ? It is said that very advanced technology was used in these wars much like what we read in Mahabharat's super weapons.

It is also said that all Govt's know about all this but never tell their people who are kept dumb and fed on official version of history.

So why did Jehovah (God of Christians/Jews/Muslims) destroy all these places ? If he is creator why would he destroy...why would he set one group of children (Christian) against other group (Muslim or Jew).

Probably this Jehovah ... the one God ...is devil himself who has been allowed the free run of the world by God during the last years.

That is what I am coming around to think ! And that is probably why we can't see God in this world.

And this is an imperfect world.

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dude i understand ur point but try to think mathematically like evey equation is balanced and every problem has to be solved by balancing it thas all i learned :nihungsmile:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

how can you say that Vaheguru Ji's creations are imperfect. They are perfected to the max. Vaheguru Ji thought of everything he we die because what would happen if we didn't earth would be overcrowded by now. And would we ever become on with Vaheguru Ji if we never died.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

How about Tornado's and Earthquakes etc why do they happen?

Maffi If I offended! I cant stop thinking about such things.

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WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Who are we to apply our limited HUMAN views on perfection? This is the Almighty...whose every command nothing can go against. It is perfect because there is NO OTHER WAY for anything to happen. People are seeking the external utopia. Sikhi tells you to see the Will of the Almighty and understand that everything is happening EXACTLY as the Almighty will have it happen. That includes earthquakes, tornadoes, murders, genocide, happiness, births, weddings, funerals, etc.

well said! :nihungsmile: :TH:

thats why gursahib says those who understand the "HUKUM" understand everything and get to know the mystery of god(plz dont ask me what hukum is now..cuz im at no level to tell u what it is...im lost as well like few of u no.gif maybe one day with guru kirpa i will be able to say...ah im not lost no more..till thn i should continue to ask guru sahib for the blessin to do sangat, recite/listen to gurbani kirtan, naam simran, and do seva )

these are the guru sahibz words im referring to:

gur bachanee har prabh jaaniaa sabh har prabh thae outhapath ||1|| rehaao ||

Through the Guru's Word, you shall come to know the Lord God. From the Lord God, everything was created. ||1||Pause||

kahu naanak jin hukam pashhaathaa ||

Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's Will,

prabh saahib kaa thin bhaedh jaathaa ||5||9||

knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3297

with kirpa we will change and start thinking like Akal(Guru) and see how perfect his creation is.

heard the saying "if u r happy u seee that the whole world is happy" now tryin applyin that to the situation we are discussin here.

bhul chuk muaf karni ji

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh!

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The reason why everything is so imperfect except Akal Purakh because we need to realize that we can never be as good as Akal Purakh. Though, he actually did make everything PERFECT, its' we as humans and other 8.4 million species on planet earth only that have not only altered ourselves but the planet. Just think about it, Mother Nature was perfect the way it was created, but when we altered it by driving cars and building tall buildings. And now we are fighting for an issue that could absoutely change the face of the earth which is global warming. The only way we can escape this hell hole is through Akal Purakh, and just be tyar par tyar at times. The Sikhs are the army of Akal Purakh and are here to serve humanity, we need to do as much as we can. And you are saying why earthquakes and what not happen, just like I said, when we altered the planet. Mother Nature has to recuperate herself somehow, we're just lucky she doesn't show her true personality, because if she gets down and dirty, its' gonna be ugly, I can guarantee you that. She tries to do as little damage as possible to her children.

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The universe is an imperfect and impermanent place, and that all things within it must at some point some to an end. This idea is drawn from what is observed around us. All living things that are born die; all societies come and go; land masses swell up and fall back into the oceans; planets and stars have a long life of their own that eventually fade; even galaxies expand and contract.

So Basically what I am asking is with all this constant change, how can there be a single, all power, perfect, constant God? If God is perfect why are all of God's creations so imperfect?

^Discuss!

It is just "the way" u look at it.

Guru Nanak gave a very nice explanation:

Asan loye loye bhandhar, jo kichh paya so eko vaar......

So, there is NO addition or substraction going on....in other word...matter or energy can never be created or destroyed.

The constant change u r seeing......sums up to zero .....its like one thing changes into another....

I hope I am making some sense.

Like a philospher said:

"You can NEVER cross the same river twice"

This observation is very instrumental in understanding that.....there is a constant change.......like new flowers are flowering.....then they die...then new one comes......its like one thing changes into another but TOTAL stays the same....as Guru Nanak says:

Jo kichh paya so eko //.

So nothing is imperfect.......its a change which continously goes on and on and on.......Perfect doesn't mean "stay the same".......a change can be perfect......

This change is not going to stop.....

As guru ji says:

Sahib mera nit nawan...

God is not leading to perfection.He is already perfect.

Understand this change...this rthyme...this anhad naad....this Hukam.

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ooo and if it was all so happy dappy, no-one wourld really be looking for happiness, and they wouldnt really appreciate it as much cos they wouldnt know the feeling of suffering, and well, there wouldnt be much point of living if there wasnt a goal. Not much competition, and so not much advancment, cos everyone would be so satisfied. everything fits in so cleverly like a jigsaw. The world is perfect man.

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But why does this happen Baba Ji? It causes soo much suffering! Is this really a perfect World to live upon?

nothing is perfect. only waheguru is perfect.

and just an extension, which actually probably means the same thing..

waheguru is perfect..therefore everything is perfect.

who said tornados aren't perfect? Aren't they (by definition) awesome? you think that the entire blend of absolutely circumstantial events can happen with any imperfection? For a tornado or earthquake to sprout up, it takse a lot of perfect events to take place so that the tornado can actually be what it is.

Suffering is PERFECT. in suffering we remember God. in pain we remember God. Suffering is more perfection than happiness, because most of our world's happiness comes from materialness, only those "Virlay Jann" have happiness from being in relationship with God.

and yes, even human creation is perfect. Surely we must believe that, because when we hear someone ask "prove that god exists", we say, "look in the mirror, look at your existence, only God could make all those fators line up in a row so that you can be alive".... our actinos may be less than perfect, but our existence is nothing short of perfection.

Parminder Singh Ji's katha on pain is really relevant... many of the ontario and b.c kids have seen it, and it talks about how sometimse people come to "expect" happiness beacuse they do their paath, they do their baani.

and Parminder Singh said that EVERY single person on this Earth is in pain.

Physical Pain

Mental Pain

Spiritual Pain

every single being in this world comes under at least one of those categories.

and in my opinion, even that is perfect. Karma is perfect, it flawlessly takes into account all your good and bad and accordingly, things happen to you in this life. the pains you must overcome in this life are all a result of an absolutely PERFECT tabulation of your deeds and misdeeds.

all that to say, nothing about the world's existence is imperfect, save for the actions of the human being. But even then, the existence of the human being is perfection in its own form.

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and Parminder Singh said that EVERY single person on this Earth is in pain.

PrIdw mY jwinAw duKu muJ kU duKu sbwieAY jig ]

fareedhaa mai jaaniaa dhukh mujh koo dhukh sabaaeiai jag ||

Fareed, I thought that I was in trouble[of dukh]; [but] the whole world is in trouble!

aUcy ciV kY dyiKAw qW Gir Gir eyhw Aig ]81]

oochae charr kai dhaekhiaa thaa(n) ghar ghar eaehaa ag ||81||

When I climbed the hill [realized waheguru] and looked around, I saw this fire [of 5 vikaars] in each and every home [person]. ||81||

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slok mÚ 1 ]

salok ma 1 ||

Salok, First Mehla:

ivsmwdu nwd ivsmwdu vyd ]

visamaadh naadh visamaadh vaedh ||

Wonderful is the sound current of the Naad, wonderful is the knowledge of the Vedas.

ivsmwdu jIA ivsmwdu Byd ]

visamaadh jeea visamaadh bhaedh ||

Wonderful are the beings, wonderful are the species.

ivsmwdu rUp ivsmwdu rMg ]

visamaadh roop visamaadh ra(n)g ||

Wonderful are the forms, wonderful are the colors.

ivsmwdu nwgy iPrih jMq ]

visamaadh naagae firehi ja(n)th ||

Wonderful are the beings who wander around naked.

ivsmwdu pauxu ivsmwdu pwxI ]

visamaadh poun visamaadh paanee ||

Wonderful is the wind, wonderful is the water.

ivsmwdu AgnI Kyfih ivfwxI ]

visamaadh aganee khaeddehi viddaanee ||

Wonderful is fire, which works wonders.

ivsmwdu DrqI ivsmwdu KwxI ]

visamaadh dhharathee visamaadh khaanee ||

Wonderful is the earth, wonderful the sources of creation.

ivsmwdu swid lgih prwxI ]

visamaadh saadh lagehi paraanee ||

Wonderful are the tastes to which mortals are attached.

ivsmwdu sMjogu ivsmwdu ivjogu ]

visamaadh sa(n)jog visamaadh vijog ||

Wonderful is union, and wonderful is separation.

ivsmwdu BuK ivsmwdu Bogu ]

visamaadh bhukh visamaadh bhog ||

Wonderful is hunger, wonderful is satisfaction.

ivsmwdu isPiq ivsmwdu swlwh ]

visamaadh sifath visamaadh saalaah ||

Wonderful is His Praise, wonderful is His adoration.

ivsmwdu auJV ivsmwdu rwh ]

visamaadh oujharr visamaadh raah ||

Wonderful is the wilderness, wonderful is the path.

ivsmwdu nyVY ivsmwdu dUir ]

visamaadh naerrai visamaadh dhoor ||

Wonderful is closeness, wonderful is distance.

ivsmwdu dyKY hwjrw hjUir ]

visamaadh dhaekhai haajaraa hajoor ||

How wonderful to behold the Lord, ever-present here.

vyiK ivfwxu rihAw ivsmwdu ]

vaekh viddaan rehiaa visamaadh ||

Beholding His wonders, I am wonder-struck.

nwnk buJxu pUrY Bwig ]1]

naanak bujhan poorai bhaag ||1||

O Nanak, those who understand this are blessed with perfect destiny. ||1||

:lol:

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