Flaws Within Sikhi

[KKV]

all comes down to dilibarate ignorance though!!!

[Hardeep__singh]

am not entirely convinced on some of the 52 hukanamas! hmmmm

[KKV]

am not entirely convinced on some of the 52 hukanamas! hmmmm

why?

[ISingh]

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsaa! Vaheguroo Jee Ki Fatheh!

Can i just say...the Guru ji is a supreme being and that Sikhi is perfect, it has no flaws, its the PEOPLE who have flaws.

If they need to find the information they want then Gurbani is there to help them, READ IT!

The history, yes people are going tarnish the truth as usual, in this case I say just let them be.

Gurmat is perfect and complete and I openly challenge anyone to find a single "flaw" with it. There could be misunderstanding or there could be something not practiced correctly but in terms of principles, Sikhi is flawless.

100% agree with you guys there. ALL flaws are totally within us. Guru Sahib says:

Gur Pooraa Maeraa Gur Pooraa ||

My Guru is perfect, my Guru is perfect.

Raam Naam Jap Sadhaa Suhaelae Sagal Binaasae Rog Kooraa ||1|| Rehaao ||

Chanting the Lord's Name, I am always at peace; all my illness and fraud is dispelled. ||1||Pause||

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Raamkalee on Pannaa 901

And it's really as simple as that! The problem is that we (including myself) question so much, yet do so little. Wherever there is Sach, there is bound to be opposition. Just look at our Glorious history! Where our Guru Sahibs did Parchaar of Gursikhi, there was resilience from Brahmins and Mughals. Why? Because of the fear of Truth and the fear a complete revolutionary ideology being spread!

Though I agree it's healthy to do veechaar, there should be point where we realise, "Am I just going to keep questioning Gurmat all my life, or actually implement it into my Jeevan?

The only way we can dispel doubt from our minds is by reading, listening, studying and implementing Gurbani into our lives and Japping Naam with our every breath. This can only happen through Kirpaa of Vaheguroo:

Kirapaa Keejai Saa Math Dheejai Aat(h) Pehar Thudhh Dhhiaaee ||

Show Your Mercy, and bless me with such understanding, that I may meditate on You, twenty-four hours a day.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Soohee on Pannaa 779

However, Bhai Gurdaas Jee says:

Gurasikhee Baareek Hai Sil Chattan Fkiee||

To be disciple of the Guru is very subtle activity and it is like licking of the tasteless stone.

Thrikhee Kha(n)ddae Dhhaar Hai Ouh Vaalahu(n) Nikee||

It is thinner than the hair and sharper than the edge of the sword.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5738

Gurmat was never meant to be easy, so I guess all we can do is constant Ardas for Guru Jee to bless us with Naam and a True understanding for his Gursikhi. Next time we go on a questioning frenzy, we should remember:

Aat(h) Pehar Har Kae Gun Gaao ||

Twenty-four hours a day, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord.

Jeea Praan Ko Eihai Suaao ||

This is the purpose of human life.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gond on Pannaa 866

:TH:

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsaa! Vaheguroo Jee Ki Fatheh!

[blinded]

Can certain groups and parltys be classed as mainstream sikhs? or even the khalsa? or shud they be branded as their own khalsa?

khalsa is someone who is pure, and a true khalsa will go to sachkhand.......how can anyone go to sachkhand when it is in their reht to discriminate against not only to people of other religions but to their own sikhs?

"From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad?"

(this is what our guru is telling us; the guru that the amrit tharis gave their head to, but now some amrit tharis think they are better than others.........)

? i am confused ?

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

The Sikhi of Nanak Gobind is not a religion understand this, understand there are no contradictions, no limits, It is only that we have become limited as a means of control and embraced religion because it is our own security we crave and will be the start of the down fall.

Sikhi does not discriminate between evil and good, but no one judges quicker than a Sikh of today.

[AK-47]

It is because of so called 'flaws' in sikhi that forums like this exist. Because our understanding is limited we question and need answers.

Penji while your efforts are good, be careful not to spread yourself too thin. Some of these issues can take a long time to cover, and you need to make sure you give quality answers which actually resolve the issue rather then just rush over them as this will not ease the questioning minds.

So perhaps a better approach would be to pick a few points and deal with them first.

Secondly while these issues have been debated previously and without getting into a further debate, i feel i must state my opposition to some of the 'facts' already stated.

Yes Guru sahib ji had more than one wife,

yes more than one guru sahib had more than one wife.

thank you.

[SardarDholi]

khalistan, politics and jathas are the biggest impurities in sikhi.purly because they contradict sikhi ..yet every1 dus it still.

[jassa]

This is a very very good thread! Here are some that a thrown at me...that to be honest some have me baffled!

- Why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Guru Hargobind Ji have Numerous wives?

- If the Guru's didnt beleive in Caste system, how come they always married within thier own Caste?

- Where does it say there are ment to be 10 Guru's?

- Where are the 5 Kakkars outlined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

- How Much of the Rehit is from the teachings of the Guru's?

I'll add more...lemme ask em!

1) Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 2 wives Mata jeet kaur (mata sundari ji) and mata Sahib Kaur ji.

Mata sahib kaur ji stayed avirgin all her life and is considered the mother of the Khalsa

2) where does it say that?

3) where does it say otherwise? plus there was never more than one Guru at one time holding the status of Guru.

4) they are not but they are mentioned in Guru Gobind Singh jis 52 hukams.

5) all of it.

and what about guru har rai ji and there 8 wives ????

and if there are only two wives of guru gobind singh sahib ji then why are there three asthans of angitha sahibs two in delhi and one in anadpur sahib ???? how come a same person as u said mata sundri ji and mata jeeto ji s sanskar is done twice and the difference between the dates is 35 years .... still there are gurudwaras is delhi and ithas is written where sanskar mata sundri ji is done and by whom and where sansar of mata jeeto ji is done and by whom .....

all i can say is we cant understand each and every action of guru ... thats the differnce between us and him ... can we even think like ....

i say a person who question the life of guru why he done this and stuff is not even sikh ....

sikh da kam aa sikhna guru nu dassna nahi ki galat aa sahi .... fer taan assi hi guru bann gaye te guru nu sikh banna leya ....

te jehre guru sahib te veah te question karde guru sahib ne 3 anand karj karwaye te 4 putt khalse panth toon varre tussi 1 putt he war ke dekha deo ....

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

This is a very very good thread! Here are some that a thrown at me...that to be honest some have me baffled!

- Why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Guru Hargobind Ji have Numerous wives?

- If the Guru's didnt beleive in Caste system, how come they always married within thier own Caste?

- Where does it say there are ment to be 10 Guru's?

- Where are the 5 Kakkars outlined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

- How Much of the Rehit is from the teachings of the Guru's?

I'll add more...lemme ask em!

1) Guru Gobind Singh Ji's 2 wives Mata jeet kaur (mata sundari ji) and mata Sahib Kaur ji.

Mata sahib kaur ji stayed avirgin all her life and is considered the mother of the Khalsa

2) where does it say that?

3) where does it say otherwise? plus there was never more than one Guru at one time holding the status of Guru.

4) they are not but they are mentioned in Guru Gobind Singh jis 52 hukams.

5) all of it.

and what about guru har rai ji and there 8 wives ????

and if there are only two wives of guru gobind singh sahib ji then why are there three asthans of angitha sahibs two in delhi and one in anadpur sahib ???? how come a same person as u said mata sundri ji and mata jeeto ji s sanskar is done twice and the difference between the dates is 35 years .... still there are gurudwaras is delhi and ithas is written where sanskar mata sundri ji is done and by whom and where sansar of mata jeeto ji is done and by whom .....

all i can say is we cant understand each and every action of guru ... thats the differnce between us and him ... can we even think like ....

i say a person who question the life of guru why he done this and stuff is not even sikh ....

sikh da kam aa sikhna guru nu dassna nahi ki galat aa sahi .... fer taan assi hi guru bann gaye te guru nu sikh banna leya ....

te jehre guru sahib te veah te question karde guru sahib ne 3 anand karj karwaye te 4 putt khalse panth toon varre tussi 1 putt he war ke dekha deo ....

“i say a person who question the life of guru why he done this and stuff is not even Sikh”

I do agree with a lot of what you have stated however as free thinkers we do have the right to question all aspects of faith and history this does not imply disloyalty but a need to simply learn about Sikhi and its History.

A flower can only be appreciated in full bloom showing all its petals.