Gursikhs and Love-Marriage

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Waaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Different from my previous posts about Khalistan, I would like to bring up a subject which has been on my mind for a while now. I have visited this site many times now and continue coming back because people on this forum are dedicated to learning and teaching about Sikhi. Our martyrs are respected and remembered, Ghalughara of 1984 is also highlighted. The right of a Sikh homeland is promoted with rational and educated arguments and posts. This forum brings up important issues concerning the Panth and answers are given with references to Gurbani. I respect this site and all its members so therefore I would like to share a personal story with the sangat. Sangat is very important in Sikhi. The internet has made it possible to share the views of the sangat from various countries and cities.

I want to bring up the subject of love marriage. Many posts have been written about fighting Kaam and the subject of sex and Sikhi. Contrary to what people may assume, Punjabi culture and Sikh culture are very different, even though they are very closely intertwined. Without Sikh culture there would be no Punjabi culture, the Punjabi "Sher" is most definitely a titile won by singhs and singhnis who fought injustice and tyranny. Even though "jatts" and anyone Punjabi is considered brave and courageous, history tells us where this bravery came from and what inspired it, Sikhi. Well this is a whole different topic, but my point is that in today's punjabi sikh society we are seeing parents killing their girls for not marrying a boy found by the parents. Boys are also given harsh treatment, (in v

ery limited number of cases), such as being kicked out of the house. This is not only a jatt and non-jatt issue, this problem is very rampant in GurSikh families as well.

Is it wrong for a GurSikh male or female to fall in love with someone? Is it Kaam? I do not think so. What is love? We all claim to "love" God. How do we "love" God? We love God by remembering HIS Name, Satnaam, by singing his praises, Waaheguru, by loving our Guru, by accepting Sikhi saroop, taking amrit and following the order of the Khalsa, because it is a gift of our Guru. Sikhi saroop is the gift from Guru Gobinf Singh Ji which made us into Kings, turbans, swords, honor and dignity bestwoed upon a downtrodden people, the sparrow made to fight the hawk. What a wonderful gift of love our Guru Ji gave to us. What gift is greater than this? What other gift in the world can turn a downtrodden individual into a King? Yet still, we all do not accept this gift. The reason for this is "love." I do not want to make it seem like people who do not take amrit do not love the Guru. That is far from my point. People take amrit and just by their appearance one can see that he or she loves the Guru, he or she has accepted the Guru's hukam. Another may also love the Guru but may not have taken amrit because one is still learning still on the path, and the love is there. This leads to level of devotion. Devotion is very important part of love. Commitment is an important part of love. This game of love is part of life, it has been a part of life from the beginning and will continue to be a part of life. I know this because God never dies, and God is love, love for humanity and our fellow Man, is Sikhi.

Everyone must be wondering, how does this all tie into a love-marriage? I am getting there so be patient. A very devout GurSikh once described to me the day he took Amrit. Simply put he said it was like a love-marriage. He felt like it was his wedding day. A marriage of love was to take place. T

hat GurSikh made a very resounding analogy that I will never forget, he said"You know how a boy loves a girl so much and they have a long distance relationship. The boy and girl talk for hours on the phone everyday. Sometimes they have nothing to say to each other. Sometimes they just say the same things over and over. They never get bored because they love each other, they like the sound of each other's voice. They give make-believe kisses over the phone. Thier friends think they are so stupid. Their friends ridicule them and mock them, but they do not care because they love each other. Even if talking for hours on the phone seems stupid to others, they still long for it. When a person can feel this away about God, that is when one really "loves" God. This level of love, not caring what others view as "stupid", is what separates lovers from pretenders. This longing for God is "love."

Some people might say well two lovers may be victims of KAAM. I have this to say about this. What is a marriage based on. It is based on love. Religion is based on love. If there is no love in a marriage then is it even a marriage? If a Sikh takes amrit just because he is required to and there is no love, is he a good Sikh? Kaam is desire, a desire which is not quenched by love. Kaam is temporary, while love is eternal, because God is love and God is eternal. Kaam is temporary and is thus a sin, intoxicants such as liquor and opium are not allowed in Sikhi because they to are temporary "nasha." Everything is temporary and false except love. When a man loves a woman, ( I realize that this is a popular English song ), when a man has that honest love, that commitment to honor and cherish, nothing can make this seem wrong. There are fale "lovers" out there but I know that there are many lovers in the world who have a honest and pure love fo

r each other. Sometimes only that one special girl can make you smile all the time, make you feel good inside, make you feel wanted and loved. Is that KAAM? I do not think so.

If a human being is not capable of loving another human being then how can he or she love God? Love is a commitment and a devotion. Marraige cannot be thought of as just a ceremony and afterwards results in children and that is that. No, marriage is about love, marriage is about that special feeling inside. Nobody can decide who one is going to love. This decision is made by one's own heart. Marriage is sacred and it is so because of love. A love marriage should not be looked down upon by our culture and our religion. Our Sikh brothers and sisters are being turned away from our faith because there is this conflist in our community. Our religion is very modern but some people are making it seem otherwise. I must say though that I support love-marriage but just with one person. One cannot proclaim to love the one true God, Waaheguru, and yet worship others. My point is that there are people who really love each other and are not driven by KAAM, who have a genuine love for each other a love which is pure and just. I believe that our sangat needs to accept this thinking and stop killing their daughters for marrying who they love. Remember a person when getting married has to spend the rest of their lives with that person, sharing their most intimate thoughts and moments, sharing their pain and misery, their joys and happiness. Would you want to do this with someone you didn't love?

Just my 2 cents, I felt like bringing up the topic because i am getting a love-marriage and I have no guilt or regrets. I want to know what others think. Do others who are Sikhs feel this way? Are there any Gursikhs here who are having a love-marriage or is considering one? Does anyone think this is wrong according to Sikhi? Please give me your views...

Thank You

Waaheguru Ji Ka Kha

lsa

Waaheguru Ji kI Fateh

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bhia sahib, love is not wrong, but dating is, anything outside of reationship outsde of anand karaj is not allowed

bhul chuk maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest balwinderkaur]

well said qurbaan veerjee. in my view love marriage is okay ....so is arranged marriage.....so long as the couple knows their limits and dont go overboard before anand kaaraj.....marriage solemnizations at court also shouldnt give them a license to mess around ....cuz its just done for legal worldly sakes. in the end the kind of marriage a couple wants ultimately depends on FATE, GURU SAAHEB and THEMSELVES&/PARENTS

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

but absolutley no dating is allowed. No dating. And even in anand karaj you are not to have sex for pleasure, only for reprodiction means. Only for that. And did i say, NO DATING. Oh and u have to mary an amridhary if u one too

bhul chuk maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest balwinderkaur]

good points khalistani veer

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

thanks phanji.

bhul chuk maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

dating, how would u define it ji?

[Jkaur]

dating means .. going out wid da gal.. holdin hands.. go for movies ... go to park.. aint i right virji?

[Japnaam Singh]

Here's a post that was taken from Tapoban.org and posted on this site a couple of months ago...

I think it relates well to this topic.

Author: Kulbir Singh

Date: 11-13-03 19:34

As written by Bhai Nandlal jee, the majnoo of Vaheguru does not fall for a worldly beauty like Laila:

MAJNOON-E-TAU KAI AASHIQ-E-LAILA BAASHAD ||

Our Guru Sahibaan expects his Sikh to be an Aashiq (premi, lover) not of a worldly beauty but of Vaheguru. In Siri Aasa kee Vaar, Siri Guru jee states:

IH, KINEYI AASHIQEE, JE DOOJAI LAGAI JAAYE||

(What kind aashiqee i.e. love is this, that permits to love someone else, other than your beloved Vaheguru?)

NANAK, AASHIQ KAANDHIYE, SADD HEE RAHAI SAMAAYE||

(Guru Angad Sahib writes that the true aashiq is so who stays forever merged in Vaheguru)

Look how high the ideal of love in Sikhi is and how lowly the worldly (ishq-e-mazaajee) love is. Gurmat preaches that we should be such lovers of Vaheguru that we should stay forever in his yaad (sweet rememberence).

Is there anything that the lovers of Vaheguru have not done for their love? The true aashiqs of Vaheguru have sat on red hot pans and had hot sand pour over them. They had their head severed in love for their beloved. They let the aggressors burn them alive in cotton but they did not even once let their love for their beloved one go down. They were cut in half. They were boiled alive. They were made to roll over the killer wheels.

The aashiqs of Vaheguru gave their lives at one signal from their beloved Guru. They had their skulls removed for their beloved. They had their children cut into pieces fo

r their beloved one.

The aashiqs of Vaheguru spent their youths in jails but did not let their love go down. They kept their rehit intact and against all odds obeyed the hukam of their beloved.

This is what aashiqs of Vaheguru did. What did Vaheguru do in return? Vaheguru in return gave them immense bliss of Naam Rass and gave them everlasting spot in Sach Khand.

Now let us look at the lives of worldly aashiqs. They too sacrificed a lot. Kaiz who is popularly known as Majnoo gave up his royal status for Laila, his beloved. He went city to city for her and in the end perished in the deserts of Arabia. What did he get in return from Laila? Nothing substantial.

Ranjha, gave up Takhat Hazaara and for a dozen years worked as a servant for Choochak (father of Heer). He became a diwaana of Heer but what did Heer do in the end? She married someone else and left for her in-laws at Rangpur KheRa. Poor Dheedo (Raanjha) become a jogi.

Sassee perished in the desert for Punoo and Sohni pershised in river chanaa for Mahivaal. What did they get in return?

This way we can give several examples of failure of ishq-e-mizaajee. In the case of Laila Majnoo, what could have been the possible peak of this love? At the most Majnoo would have married Laila. So is this an everlasting relationship? Not according to baani.

On the other hand, Bhai Taaroo Singh jee had his skull removed by the Muslims, out of love for Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee. What did Bhai Taaroo Singh jee get in return? He already had Naam Rass and now he became one with Vaheguru and is now in Sach Khand with Vaheguru.

I don't have any doubts over the intentions of Raanjha and Majnoo. Even Bhai Gurdas jee has praised their spirit and hard work but the reality is that the end result of this love is not that great.

Reading baani we learn that the true aashiqs i.e. the Gursikhs of Guru Nanak Dev jee, succeed in getting good results out of their hard work. The worldly aashiqs too are of two categories -

ones who are inspired by kaam (99%) and the ones inspired by love for soul e.g. Ranjha, Majnoo etc. The ones inspired by Kaam surely go to hell and the ones like Ranjha and Majnoo too cannot achieve anything high according to baani, because baani preaches that one gets what one aims for and if these guys Ranjha and Majnoo were to get their love, what would they really gain from that? At the most they may marry their love in the next life and then have children from them. Would it result in everlasting rest? No! It will surely put them back in chauraasee (8.4 million life forms). There will be no way out.

According to baani, only those ones, who become aashiqs of Vaheguru, get any real results for their hard work. Rest waste their time.

In the light of all this, is it not our duty to deliver ourselves by dying on the Amrit Naam of Satguru? Is it not our duty to never miss amritvela and during amritvela japp naam with full concentration?

May Guru Sahib make us his real aashiqs. Gurbani is calling out to us, to take precaution during our youth. During the youth time, there is high probability of making a mistake that can leave a scar on the life of Gursikh for rest of his life. It is not worth it.

Daas,

Kulbir Singh

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Wow, excellent posts! I agree that love is OK, but:

NO DATING

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!