What Can U Categorize As Idolizing?

[B4ND4]

btw B4ND4 guess what I always thought your name was bander...like you know monkey....and now today for the first time i read it properly and it actually says banda. lol.

It was B4ND4R earlier. I am getting married so i got it changed it to B4ND4 :wub:

[Guest Akirtghan]

lol :wub:

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Takhat Sri hazoor Sahib's aarti is anti-gurmat. they don't even follow the sikh rehit maryada, which the five takhats are supposed to.

here is the sikh rehit maryada from the sgpc itself:

Anything except the afore-mentioned reverential ceremonies, for instance, such practices as the arti (Waving of a platter with burning lamps and incense set in it in vertical circular motion) with burning incense and lamps, offerings of eatables to Guru Granth Sahib , burning of lights, beating of gongs, etc., is contrary to gurmat (the Guru's way). However, for the perfuming of the place, the use of flowers, incense and scent is not barred. For light inside the room, oil or butter-oil lamps, candles, electric lamps, kerosene oil lamps, etc., may he lighted.

http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_...e_chap_four.htm

Also, we can post many shabads from SGGS ji which downplay the aarti with thaals and jot etc. Takhat Sri hazoor sahib is basically assimilating itself into the wider hindu culture of the surrounding area.

Just like no one reads the indian constituion in india, which is the largest in the world, i don't think the takhat jathedaars themselves have ever read the sikh rehit maryada which they proclaim to uphold.

peace.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Pressing the legs of the cot on which the Guru Granth Sahib is installed, rubbing nose against walls and on platforms, held sacred, or massaging these, placing water below the Guru Granth Sahib's seat, making or installing statues, or idols inside the Gurdwaras, bowing before the picture of the Sikh Gurus or elders - all these are irreligious self-willed egotism, contrary to gurmat (the Guru's way).

http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_...e_chap_four.htm

[Bundha]

Guys,

This is just my opinion, please disagree if you like.

Firstly, education means nothing in the house of Nanak. The only requirement is that you can read gurbani and have piyar for your Guru. I have met many people who have Phd’s after their names, prof this, Doctor saab that, but when it comes to gurmat they no absolutely nothing, but their egos will not let them see this and they will ramble on an on.

Secondly, there are many things that are maryadha that we do not know about, we speculate and are up in arms for no reason at all, all we hear is “against gurmat against Gurmat against Gurmat” who amongst us knows what true Gurmat is ?

First, get your naam simran sorted out and get to some level, then look at Gur-marhyadha.

Any one know why we light jyote in gurdwaras or in the home ? The most people will say is – “its there if the electricity goes out!” - No guys it is not, there is a deeper meaning, but we all will try to ban it “because it is against maryadha”

Who amongst us have photos of our wife/husband/kids in our wallets ? is this not a form of idol worship when we open our wallet and we dreamily gaze at their images? What about photos of our mum and dad or grand parents that we proudly display on the mantelpiece? Tell me, is Guru Gobind Singh Ji not related to you ? “ oh sada kuch nahee lagdha ?” does he not deserve a picture on the wall in honour of our TRUE father ?

Whenever I look at a picture of Guru Ji it reminds me of my Guru and what is wrong in that?

As for the maryadha at Hazzor sahib. All I can say is that at the pavitar place Guru Ji comes regularly, the sewadhars place dhatan and water in his private quarters and when they return it has been used, Guru Ji is hazar nazar their, so do you think Guru Ji would allow any maryardha there that was not conducive to him? Have some faith guys.

I would like you “educated” Singh to go down there are try to stop the arti, they chadri kala Singhs will have a few words to say. You think the sewadhars there are just anybody? Only those remain there who Guru Ji wants to keep there.

[Guest Akirtghan]

^^^ wicked post

Any one know why we light jyote in gurdwaras or in the home ? The most people will say is – "its there if the electricity goes out!" - No guys it is not, there is a deeper meaning, but we all will try to ban it "because it is against maryadha"

so whats the real reason? :wub:

[JustME]

^^^ wicked post

Any one know why we light jyote in gurdwaras or in the home ? The most people will say is – "its there if the electricity goes out!" - No guys it is not, there is a deeper meaning, but we all will try to ban it "because it is against maryadha"

so whats the real reason? :wub:

i though u lit joth to remember all the shaheeds that sacrificed their lives so sikhi could live on............. :wub: i cud be totally wrong though

[Bundha]

Let you know tomorrow guys, am off home !

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

nobody claims to know gurmat. that's why the sikh rehit maryada says what ISN't gurmat, not what is Gurmat.

the sikh rehit maryada and gurbaani are the only sources we can go by, not by the emotional attachment of some individuals to pictures and blind rituals.

if a son living abroad for years sends his mother back home a pic with no words, what impact will taht have? but if the son writes her a letter, those words are more valuable than any picture. we have gurbaani, what's in sobha singh's imagination?

what's the difference between a picture and a statue? everything the gurus wanted us to have has survived the trials of time. We still have gurshabd. Guru sahib created the khalsa and we still have that as well. guru sahib established the five takhats and they still are with us. why didn't the gurus leave us pictures? They left us the greatest nishaanes of all, yet a picture is needed to seal the deal?

in the old days, people didn't have pics of their families in their wallets. did they love them less then?

Do you ever sit down with your mom and dad and stare at their pictures instead, even though they are right next to you? we say Guru sahib is sada ang sang sahai, meaning always with us, near at hand, our support. so why look at a fake pic when guru sahib is staring you in the face through his creation? you ever look at a picture of your wife and ignore the fact that she's standing in front of you?

professor sahib singh's translation at guru granth darpan explains many times the unimportance of aarti with a thaal and deeva.

and as for using divas for light, that's what the sikh rehit maryada says. A singh once told me, the greatest jot is shabad guru, what jot are we trying to light. it's like lighting a candle in front of the sun.

so according to your post, even the sikh rehit maryada isn't legit. if the rehit maryada is bogus, prof sahib singh's teeka on gurbaani is incorrect, what's legit?

please support your post with gurbaani so we can get a better understanding of the reason behind what you insist.

because if aartis, pictures etc are all gurmat, than we need to stop telling people we don't believe in blind rituals. and we have a lot of explaining to do to Hindus for mocking the very things which we label sharda, and when hindus do it we call it ritualism.

thanks.

[Bundha]

<<< if a son living abroad for years sends his mother back home a pic with no words, what impact will taht have? >>>

Actually a picture is worth a thousand words, so yes a mother who sees her sons picture would be very reassured.

<<< . we have gurbaani, what's in sobha singh's imagination? >>>

Don’t get me wrong, Bani Guru, Guru hey bani. I am not questioning this at all. It seems to me that you are spiritually more enlightened then me , as I do like to see pictures of my Guru, it makes me feel good, it makes me remember my father.

<<< what's the difference between a picture and a statue? >>>

It really depends on how you look at it. If you “worship” the statute then that is wrong, if you look at a picture and it reminds us of our father, it makes us remember our father and maybe every time we see a picture of Guru Ji the words “Waheguru, waheguru” pass our lips then maybe that is not a bad thing.

<<<They left us the greatest nishaanes of all, yet a picture is needed to seal the deal? >>>

No, you seem to go overboard, nobody is suggesting that a picture is to seal the deal or that it is THE most important thing, all I am saying is that it is an aid to remembering our Guru. If Guru Ji is my father then as his sons/daughters I would like a picture on my mantelpiece.

<<< Do you ever sit down with your mom and dad and stare at their pictures instead, even though they are right next to you? >>>

And yet we all have pictures of the wife/husband/kids on the wall yet they are sitting next to us, is’nt that the same thing???

<<<we say Guru sahib is sada ang sang sahai, meaning always with us, near at hand, our support. so why look at a fake pic when guru sahib is staring you in the face through his creation? you ever look at a picture of your wife and ignore the fact that she's standing in front of you? >>>

Bhaji, you are talking of a higher state of avastaa, when you get to that stage then yes, Guru Ji is next to you and you can feel their presence and you can actually see them, but alas silly old me even when I know they are near me I carry on with my bad things. Who in the presence of Guru Granth sahib Ji at the Gurdwara really acknowledges them as really there? We say we do, but do we really???

As for the fake pictures. Well, really all paintings are fake to some extent. A picture of Guru Gobind Singh Ji – we know Guru Ji wore a dastaar, we know Guru Ji had a beard, we know Guru Ji was shastardhari , we know Guru Ji was slim in build, so really these “fake” pictures have all the attributes of Guru Ji.

<<<<and as for using divas for light, that's what the sikh rehit maryada says. A singh once told me, the greatest jot is shabad guru, what jot are we trying to light. it's like lighting a candle in front of the sun.>>>>

The jyote we are trying to light is the jyote of Piyare ,sharda, prem, bhavna, adhav, satkaar.

<<< pictures etc are all gurmat, than we need to stop telling people we don't believe in blind rituals. >>>

I am not suggesting they are gurmat, all I am saying is that for me a like to see pictures of Guru Sahib Ji and before you take then down off the walls why don’t you try to remove the pictures of the wife/husband/kids/mum/dad/ and burn them first. Burn pictures of your mum and dad, see how it feels. Yet you are all too quick to do that same to a picture of Guru Ji…………….how sad.