Pakhandi Neeldharis Doing Hindu Style Aarti In Front Of Sggsj

[2desi]

2desi, have you read 7 pages long explanation on arti that i posted in this thread? i guess not aie, because if you would have you wouldnt be asking others to further explain.

No Bro, thats over my head.....I'm just looking for answers....I'm not trying enforce anything on anyone.....could somebody please answer my questions???? please.....Didn't Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Baba Ravidas both reject "Aartee"?.....Can some calm and collected soul please answer my questions....

[2desi]

Aarti (waving lights before an idol/image) is something condemned in Gurbani. ...

When Baba Ravidaas Ji was asked to perform Aarti, he refused to do. He replied: Naam Tero Aarti Mujan Murare Har Ke Naam Ke Naam Bin Jhoote Sagal Paasare Rahaao O Lord! (Ignorant people do Aarti (worship through waving lights, but for me) Your Name, Lord, is Your Aarti, adoration, and cleansing bath (of pilgrimages). Without the Name of the Lord, all ostentatious displays are false and useless. 1 Pause (Ang 694, SGGS)

When Guru Nanak Sahib Ji travelled to Banaras, the Brahman Pandits invited Guru Ji to join them to do Aarti of God. Guru Nanak Sahib Ji agreed and went and sat inside the Mandir. The Pandits stood in front of the stone idol gods and started to wave platters with lights, incense and offering place on it. When they had finished they complained to Guru Nanak Sahib Ji. "You said you would join us to do the Aarti of God, but you remain sat on the floor with your eyes closed!" Guru Nanak Sahib Ji then replied with this Shabad: Gagan Mai Thaal Rav Chand Deepak Banay Taarikaa Mandal Janak Motee Dhoop Mal-aanlo Pavan Chavro Karay Sagal Banraa-ay Foolant Jotee Kaisee Aartee Ho-ay Bhav Khandnaa Tayree Aartee Anhataa Sabad Vaajant Bhayree Rahaao

The whole sky is (as if) the plate. The sun and moon are the lamps (placed in the plate). The stars and their orbs, are as if, studded pearls (in the plate). The wind fragranced with sandalwood is as if the (temple) incense. The wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. 1 (In nature) what a beautiful Aartee, lamp-lit worship service of You is this! O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Aarti, Ceremony of Light. The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad (vibrating within all the creation) is as if the (temple) drums are being played. 1 Pause (Ang 13, SGGS)

Like this quote for RajKaregaKhalsa.net.......is this right??

[chatanga]

scholars, if this fire-waving is the corect way of doing arrti, why isnt there more of a movement to re-introduce it to gurdwaras around the world. granted in bhoot mata, the malech sgpc may stop it, but in uk, usa etc why is nobody talking bout it aiee?

[SaRpAnCh]

Hindu aarti is not allowed no plates fire nothing like that END OF

Aarti (waving lights before an idol/image) is something condemned in Gurbani. ...

When Baba Ravidaas Ji was asked to perform Aarti, he refused to do. He replied: Naam Tero Aarti Mujan Murare Har Ke Naam Ke Naam Bin Jhoote Sagal Paasare Rahaao O Lord! (Ignorant people do Aarti (worship through waving lights, but for me) Your Name, Lord, is Your Aarti, adoration, and cleansing bath (of pilgrimages). Without the Name of the Lord, all ostentatious displays are false and useless. 1 Pause (Ang 694, SGGS)

When Guru Nanak Sahib Ji travelled to Banaras, the Brahman Pandits invited Guru Ji to join them to do Aarti of God. Guru Nanak Sahib Ji agreed and went and sat inside the Mandir. The Pandits stood in front of the stone idol gods and started to wave platters with lights, incense and offering place on it. When they had finished they complained to Guru Nanak Sahib Ji. "You said you would join us to do the Aarti of God, but you remain sat on the floor with your eyes closed!" Guru Nanak Sahib Ji then replied with this Shabad: Gagan Mai Thaal Rav Chand Deepak Banay Taarikaa Mandal Janak Motee Dhoop Mal-aanlo Pavan Chavro Karay Sagal Banraa-ay Foolant Jotee Kaisee Aartee Ho-ay Bhav Khandnaa Tayree Aartee Anhataa Sabad Vaajant Bhayree Rahaao

The whole sky is (as if) the plate. The sun and moon are the lamps (placed in the plate). The stars and their orbs, are as if, studded pearls (in the plate). The wind fragranced with sandalwood is as if the (temple) incense. The wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. 1 (In nature) what a beautiful Aartee, lamp-lit worship service of You is this! O Destroyer of Fear, this is Your Aarti, Ceremony of Light. The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad (vibrating within all the creation) is as if the (temple) drums are being played. 1 Pause (Ang 13, SGGS)

[kam1825]

Sarpanch another thing is that the Aarti performed at Jagannath Puri was to the statues of vishnu whi are innate. Aarti is perfomed to God but there is s difference between the statue and god.

Now bani says that there is no difference between the Guru and God. They are one and the same. We bow to the Guru for this very reason and the Guru is alive and the Jaagdi Jot of the first ten gurus exists in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

There is the difference between the aarti bhagat kabir ji and guru nanak dev ji are talking about in bani and the Aarti we perform in reverance to the one god who can only be found through the grace of the guru

[2desi]

Wait...God can only be realized through the understanding and practice of Bani, by repeating the name of God, by following Rehit, and by taking Amrit....right?.....So your saying that by doing "aartee" towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you actually doing "aartee" towards Waheguru....But isn't there a distiction between Guru and Waheguru? You have to meet the Guru before you can meet Waheguru? The True Lord is formless and limitless but can only be found through the Guru.

AprMpro pwrbRhmu suAwmI hir AlKu gurU lKwieE ]1] rhwau ]

apara(n)paro paarabreham suaamee har alakh guroo lakhaaeiou ||1|| rehaao ||

The Supreme Lord God, my Lord and Master, is limitless; the Guru has inspired me to know the unknowable Lord. ||1||Pause||

qU prY prY AprMpru suAwmI imiq jwnhu Awpn gwqI ]2]

thoo parai parai apara(n)par suaamee mith jaanahu aapan gaathee ||2||

You are the most remote of the remote, limitless and transcendent; O Lord Master, You alone know Your state and extent. ||2||

nwnk so pRBu sdw iDAweIAY ijin myilAw siqguru ikrpw Dwir ]4]1]5]

naanak so prabh sadhaa dhhiaaeeai jin maeliaa sathigur kirapaa dhhaar ||4||1||5||

O Nanak, meditate forever on God; granting His Grace, He unites us with the True Guru. ||4||1||5||

ndir kry jy AwpxI qW siqguru imlY suBwie ]

nadhar karae jae aapanee thaa(n) sathigur milai subhaae ||

When God casts His Glance of Grace, then the mortal automatically meets the True Guru.

gur pRswid pRBu pweIAY gur ibnu mukiq n hoie ]

gur prasaadh prabh paaeeai gur bin mukath n hoe ||

By Guru's Grace, God is obtained. Without the Guru, no one is liberated.

[N30S1NGH]

Wait...God can only be realized through the understanding and practice of Bani, by repeating the name of God, by following Rehit, and by taking Amrit....right?.....So your saying that by doing "aartee" towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you actually doing "aartee" towards Waheguru....But isn't there a distiction between Guru and Waheguru? You have to meet the Guru before you can meet Waheguru? The True Lord is formless and limitless but can only be found through the Guru.

Please read into concept of sargun and nirgun form of vahiguroo.

Sargun Nirgun Nirankar Sun Samadhi App Apaie Kea Nanaka Apaie Pher Jaap ||

Basic spiritual beleive in Sikh Dharam

Sikhi beleives in God does not incaranate fully but God transcedents his attributes in his creation. For eg- Guru's had 99.9% attributes not all attributes of Nirgun Paratama(God which we cannot see).

- Sikhi beleive in advait worship(sargun/nirgun) - worship only one creator, seeing that one creator in his creation (Parbhram Upasana).

- Sikhi beleive God has two forms- one form which does not change (Nirguna-orginal form) ie- God- indescrible, unreachable, limitless ,timeless etc, and second form is sarguna (the one which we can see), God transform it's attributes in sargun form. Sargun form can be considers as Guru Avtar, Nit Avtar (Sants/Saints) etc.

- Sikhi beleive only way to get to God, is via Grace of Guru from social religious perspective- grace of Satguru Nanak in Sikh Dharma, from spiritual aspect meaning of Guru can be broaden to any person who brings one from darkness into light. But that does not mean, one should not make a effort by thinking - i m going to get grace one day regardless without making any effort , that means one should defaniately make a effort to acquire grace of Guru by listening and following discourses of Guru. Eg- taking amrit is only step as like admission to school, there are many grades, many levels one has to pass before getting grace of Satguru Nanak.

When arti is performed in gurdwaras to sri guru granth sahib its performed not to nirgun form or mere morti but but its performed to sargun form(vairaat) of vahiguroo which is shabad guru resides in sri guru granth sahib ji as form of respect not form of devotion to get mukhti or anything.

[ssinghuk]

ssinghuk i only repeat the views proposed by the sant samaj on this forum and repect their views on how to respect the king of kings sri guru granth sahib ji. Remember Aarti was also performed to kings and again is the sign of a badshah.

i respect everones views on hear and am only sharing views expressed by those vidvaans who guide me. if you have issues on this you can take it up with them when they come to do parchar and they can give you their views in full without me getting something wrong

Ofcourse, I completely agree with aartee being performed as explained by MANY mahapursh as you and others have explained in previous posts.

The point of my post was that some of the users here are saying the chaur sahib is simply for brushing off dirt, keeping flies away and it basically doesn't have any signifiigance - ridiculous! Furthermore, theyre using this as argument that Aartee shouldnt be performed!

I applaud you for respecting everyones views on here as I sometimes find that verrry difficult!

[Into the Light]

ok, so now that we've acknowledged that Arti of Shabd Guru - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji has had/does have a place in the panth (not saying is would tho, but hey...everyone to there own)

What does the sangat think about doing Arti of a picture of Guru Gobind Singh Ji as is done at the end of Arti at Hazoor Sahib? Can we agree that this is not in accordance with Gurmat? Or do members of this phorum beleive doing puja of Photo's is correct too?

[SaRpAnCh]

Thats idol worship and 'kur kireya',waving plates and candles in front of Guru Granth Sahib ji is forbidden ,and so is worshipping pictures,-=pakhand.