The Use Of Chairs In Guru Ji's Darbar

[Bhai Sahib]

I just don't know what it is with these Jatha vale Sikhs that have issues with total non-issues like this, how we sit, how we eat, what we eat, what materical our utensils are we cook with, what material our Khanga is, what color our kachera is, what day to wash our hair, complete stupid brain dead moronic non-issues.

i'd say that one is quite important :lol:

"what we eat" - i think you would agree with me that eating has an HUGE impact on us

Ok..that was not the jist of what I was saying, but yeah literally I can't argue with you on that one.

[sikhlionz]

topic has gone from asking whether one of the largest GuruGhar in europe could temporarily offer one chair for one bazurug with a zimmerframe to talking about permanent rows of reclining seats

Guru ji's satkaar should come first and it is inspiring to know that many undergo hardships without asking for chairs. obviously an ideal situation would be no chairs. suggestions:

• AK-47 veerji mentioned Health. for example a lot of elderly trek across the midlands daily to get to GNNSJ GuruGhar to do sewa and they have a lot of good community activities specifically aimed at them so this helps keep them fit. we should all take more care of our fitness (he says eating his parohta lol)
  
• fit railings around Sri Darbar Sahib and where you matha tek as well as assign 2 sewadars of each gender duty to assist those who need it in getting up and down.
  
• whether or not to temporarily offer chair(s) at the moment has to be decided locally otherwise Akal Takht should be approached for a final decison on whether or not to temporarily offer chair(s).
  

given past experience this would be problemmatic but complete clarity is needed. it's only just dawned on me i'm not knowledgeable enough on sikhi to comment on this topic :lol:

[randip singh]

I commented hoping you might understand but nah uncle has to win

ps: you were the one who started a new idiotic thread which has been merged into the old one now.

Randip, You started the 'advantages of chairs' thread, and it was merged into the existing thread.

You got to be kidding me right? Do you guys really not understand the irony of my post and why I made it?

Maybe it's jusyt somthing us UK born Sikhs have. :lol:

[randip singh]

[*]whether or not to temporarily offer chair(s) at the moment has to be decided locally otherwise Akal Takht should be approached for a final decison on whether or not to temporarily offer chair(s).

A very very interesting point Bro, but the problem is we pick and choose what rulings from the Akal Takht we accept.

[randip singh]

Well hopefully a day will come were there will be Gurdwareh all over the place with all the sangat sitting in pews in the darbar, and our Guru Granth sitting on the high throne ahead of us.

I just don't know what it is with these Jatha vale Sikhs that have issues with total non-issues like this, how we sit, how we eat, what we eat, what materical our utensils are we cook with, what material our Khanga is, what color our kachera is, what day to wash our hair, complete stupid brain dead moronic non-issues.

What we really need is a Sikh reformation through consensus that will sweep away with all this dead-wood that are these backward self-contradictory jathabandies-sant-dera-waleh pindus, and go back to the real roots of Sikhism and not the current pseudo- purityrannical regime we have now.

I wonder what the future Sikh reformers version of The Ninety-Five theses would be? And who would dare nail it to the door of the Akal Takhat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-Five_Theses

I guess these Masands like AK-47 would get their caveman clubs out ready to bash anyone who wished to challenge the status quo.

The real reasons why people don't want chairs are...

1) They are Conservative. They don't want change, they don't care that what they have is due to previous changes, and all they care about is to keep the status quo. Its a power thing, change means losing control/power.

2) You can't pack in people as much as you can by packing them on the floor. As Gurdwareh nowadays are businesses more than places of worship the committees don't want to introduce any measures that might affect their coffers.

Some great points.

But what I am getting at is why Sikhs have been so sucessful, we are losing that:

For example, the reason why Sikh Misls were so sucessful in battle were they developed new methods of warfare. They used matchlocks from horses (rather than in infintary formation). They developed weaponary for close combat. They developed new form of artillary. They embraced change while keeping the essence of their faith.

At the moment we have too much reactionary stuff going on. Sikhism seems to be stagnating in the West. In the cities outside Punjab in India, Sikhism seems to be moving forward. That's why we are such a sucessful community outside Punjab too.

We embrace new ideas, technology and methods and adapt them to the Sikh way.

PS Stop insultin cavemen! :lol:

[amankaur]

sorry to say but does this even need to be discussed come on people pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee taking stuff over board now seriously, least bibi ji or who ever needs chair in Darbar Sahib is in there cus they want to be with Maharaj Ji so you can't stop elderly or anyone person with disabilities in coming to Maharaj's Hazoori ok so please stop with these lame topics man.

[Heera Singh]

Bhai Sahib... I'm not sure if u've ever sat in a PEW... but those things are MAD uncomfortable... they're okay for the first 15 or 20 mins... after that i's really uncomfortable... the reason why people use walls is for back support or because they're lazy to sit up.. and the vast majority of people have bad posture... and most of the people (that i see) that use walls are the elderly...

even wit pews.. it would be a lot more difficult to leave darbar hall in case of fire... by having pews, it doesn't take way the 'dog eat dog' mentality that ur sayin... pews or not, people would fall regardless... but being able to exit the hall would be a lot easier w/out them..

we have ALWAYS sat on the floor.. why do we need to change or modernize things? its fine the way it is...

5... even though their 'body' might be facing Guru Sahib, doesn't mean their face will... most of the time people's body's are facing guru sahib, but their talkin to the person next to them.. so even though their body is facing Guru Sahib, their focus isn't in that direction anyway..

Much more difficult though when your sitting on pews.

no it isn't... i's actually easier because u'd be sitting directly next to the person... it doesn't take much effort for a person to move their head to the side, or even shift their body a lil, even on a pew...

6... not necessarily tru... people would plan it so they sit together... same thing happens at churches... i went to a catholic school at one point and durin their mass people ALWAYZ interrupted with their chatter from all sides...

Harder to do that on pews.

no it isn't... we sat on pews during mass... i's jus as easy to talk on pews as it is talkin while sittin down on the floor... having pews wouldn't eliminate chatter..

Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji sat with the poor, not on high thrones with the rich, the royalty, but with the poor common person. This is where true sadh sangat can be found.

Your conveniently forgetting history, in his 10th incarnation the true king sat on a throne and held his darbar.

and did the sangat sit on chairs in front of HIM? no.. they sat on the floor...

and i's nah only 'jathe vale sikhs' who have a problem with chairs/pews...

and... for programs where keertan is done on the floor, where would the keertanee's and the rest of the sangat sit behind them? having pews or chairs is jus not practical or logical...

yes, having pews would dramatically limit the # of people coming to the gurdwara... but what about those people who actually come to the gurughar for the rite reasons? ur gonna limit those too? i've been to samagamz where probably 7000 sangataa were sitting in darbaar... and most of these sangataa were 'outside sangat'... (travelling from abroad)...

[randip singh]

Hmm my post was meant to be tongue and cheek but I see you have taken it seriously.....I will entertain you nevetheless......

1... what if some people decided to put their feet up on the char in front of them if nobody was sittin there? since ur so worried bout 'comfort'...

Actually sitting on the floor I see peoples feet pointing at Bir all the time. Difficult to do that with a chair since if the Bir is raised you would practically have to have feet on the chair in front.............would look very odd and be visible to all around.

2.. sitting on a chair for 3 hours as opposed to sitting on the ground... umm.. ground is a LOT more comfortable!

I say tomato you say tomatoe.......blah blah blah.......no actually a chair is more comfortable. I suggest when you go to work you sit on the floor while everyone else sits at their desk in the chair.

3... in case of 'fire'... it would be a lot more difficult for everybody run out of the building with hundreds of chairs in their way... half the people would probably fall or trip over chairs... and more chances of them gettin injured...!

This one you are totally wrong. My profession tells me you are.

Venues have chairs to control numbers (cinema's, stadiums etc). Building Regulations here ine UK dictate for how many people you need a set amount of firedoors. If you have x number of chairs you have x number of people hence x number fire escapes.

With people on floors it is difficults to judge number of people. Also more likely people will be trampled on the floor in a panic. With fixed seating there is less likely to be trip hazards.

4... i actually agree with that... but the whole hall shouldn't have chairs.. only those who really NEED it..

Thanks

5... even though their 'body' might be facing Guru Sahib, doesn't mean their face will... most of the time people's body's are facing guru sahib, but their talkin to the person next to them.. so even though their body is facing Guru Sahib, their focus isn't in that direction anyway..

Difficult to turn your back in a chair.

6... not necessarily tru... people would plan it so they sit together... same thing happens at churches... i went to a catholic school at one point and durin their mass people ALWAYZ interrupted with their chatter from all sides...

Yeah but if you are sat in a row diffult to speak to Timmy 3 place doen isn't it? Compared with people sat in clumps who natter.

7... again.. not necessarily tru...

Again ....I say tomato you say tomatoe.

ur avoiding the point.. u think by people sittin on chairs that all of a sudden they'll start to listen to Bani and Simran at Gurughar? why don't we do some parchaar and help people realise the true message of Bani and the true beauty of Bani... u don't think if Guru Sahibs wanted chairs in darbar hall, that they would have started with them?

Not at all......I am looking at some possible advantages......not trying to make any point. Someone who has come to disrupt will disrupt and not listen a regardless.

the problem isn't 'comfort'... its that people don't have interest in bani... lets start with that..

and ur point #2 on disadvantages contradicts your whole 'comfort' point...

It doesn't actually. You have differebnt types of chairs. Plastic, wooden, padded etc.....You have quite a choice.

With floor you are limited....I suppose you could pad it and turn it into one big mattress. :lol:

[rupinder singh]

LOL. dear dear randip! why not put ur mahan theories into action? have a chat with ur local gurdwara committee and test your "sangat on chairs" theory out. u can even get the sangat to fill out a questionaire and rate the level of satisfaction gained by sitting on chairs tooo. how exciting to be so rebellious!!!

[randip singh]

LOL. dear dear randip! why not put ur mahan theories into action? have a chat with ur local gurdwara committee and test your "sangat on chairs" theory out. u can even get the sangat to fill out a questionaire and rate the level of satisfaction gained by sitting on chairs tooo. how exciting to be so rebellious!!!

Soory mate my stomach was aching with laughter when I read your post.....

how exciting to be so rebellious!!!

I can see how a chair (that has been around since Egyptian times), can be very rebelious in your eyes! :lol:

Let us take to the streets with placards and continue with the chair rebellion .......you really could not make it up could you.....and I doubt you will see the sheer lunacy of what you have written.