The Use Of Chairs In Guru Ji's Darbar

[B4ND4]

The bedrooms you sleep in are at a higher level then Maharaj's saroop @ your local gurughar .. waht would you say about that???

The people who have problems sit on chairs.. no big deal ... Waheguru is beyond all this bickering over trivial matters.

ps: This has been discussed many times aswell. Run a search veer ji and read the comments by sangat.

[AK-47]

I was at the gurdwara sahib this morning at a wedding which was attended by a number of white people, i.e. non punjabi/non sikhs.

It was obvious that they were havng difficulty sitting on the floor and one woman asked me to get her a chair. she was able very easily to walk around and had no movement difficulties, but was just not used to sitting on the floor. i said no we dont have chairs in the darbar sahib and while i was explaining why not she pointed out that another white lady was already sitting on a chair. a number of other white ladies were also very interested to see if they could also get chairs. now these were perfectly healthy people, but were unaccustomed to sitting on the floor.

question arises, do we bend the rules for people of other backgrounds?

while it is understandable that disabled people may need certain facilities in the darbar sahib, unless a clear line is drawn this is open to abuse. how can you say to one person it is ok for you to bring in a chair whilst for another person it is not? all will argue that they need a chair etc. i think the reason shaheedkhala has bought up this topic again (appreciate its been discussed b4) is that more and more people are getting used to the idea that this is 'OK'. if we look at ourselves and our own generation many of us find it hard to sit for long periods of time, not because we are disabled, but just because we are unfit or lazy. If we accept the mindset that if u cant sit on the floor then chairs are availble, then we may leave ourselves open to big problems in the future. the elder generation understand the respect for maharajh and why they need to sit on the floor. and most will do so to the best of their ability and will try as hard as they can to avoid using chairs etc. BUT our new generation is perhaps not as educated in this respect for maharajh, and while i pray it doesnt happen, the swing towards all things modern may mean that in the future it is only the 'fanatics' that are sitting on the floor in the darbars.

most of us agree that only the disabled should use these chairs, but how many of us will go to a normal mouthy auntie and say bibi ji there is no need for chairs in here. we wont, one because it will cause a scene and 2 most of us will feel bad doing it. so as such, there is no line between what is accpetable and what is not. the gurdwara themselves are scared about this issue and dont know how to tackle it, i.e. where to draw the line.

lets try and leave out the personal attacks and think logically with clear minds,i dont believe anybody wishes to deny access to the darbar for anybody else,but if rules are to be bent, we need to be careful as to how far we bend them, as per case of non-punjabi visitors coming to the gurdwara and asking for chairs etc.

[N30S1NGH]

I was at the gurdwara sahib this morning at a wedding which was attended by a number of white people, i.e. non punjabi/non sikhs.

...............

s per case of non-punjabi visitors coming to the gurdwara and asking for chairs etc.

good post ak47, there should be clear distincation on chairs for disabled in the darbar and chairs just for people who are not used to sitting on the floor. There should be poster whereever there are chairs in darbar, its only meant for disabled with back problems not others who are not used to sitting on the floor.

[sikhlionz]

Over the next few years we are going to have more and more people asking for chairs to be placed in the Divan halls, just like what happened in the langar halls.

Now when non Sikhs are coming to Gurudwara for wedding etc, they are too requesting chairs.

Khalsa jis,

i can see your reasoning behind making sangat aware as non-Sikhs at weddings do strangely get treated like royalty - people act as if they have never seen a non-Sikh before lol also the population is ageing, in the UK at least so more people may want chairs in future.

however, if that did start taking place then there will also be people who will get together and counter it. dont forget at the same time you youngsters will be more involved in GuruGhar sewa and will have more of a say in these things :lol:

[Inderpal]

I see A birdh Bibi come to have mahrajhs darshan but cant sit...so she has a chair...lets be thankful they are there with maharaj and not doing baman reets like the rest of out bibia today!

[Into the Light]

Just because someone looks healthy doesn't mean they don't have a problem with sitting on the floor in the Diwan Hall.

My mum has rheumatoid Arthrits, at first glance you'd think she should have no problem sitting on the floor she looks fine, she walks fine but infact has had a knee replacement which has given her her life back. She cannot sit on the floor and has been informed by her surgeon not too if she wants to get the maximum life out of her knee so therefore needs to sit on a stool at the very least (she finds the chair too high). If my mum did sits on the floor, she wouldn't beable to get up and will be possibly comprmising her knees.

i know some people who have had knee replacements do sit on the floor but my mums arthritis was that bad that while the operation has helped her mobility, there is stuff she still can't do.

As my mum says crying, "its not as if i have a chaa to standout in sangat by sitting on a stool...its out of majboori"

What i'm trying to say is just because the bibi in the pic looks like she can sit on the floor, who knows her case, who knows her dukh.

Vaheguroo

[jss]

to the kid who took the pictures....

you're lucky it wasn't my granny or anyone's granny and that i wasn't there...

if i was to see you taking any pictures towards the ladies side for no apparent reason...or any grannies who have to sit on chairs...i would have broken your camera on the spot....

before posting on this forum...you should talk to the elderly...firstly...they'll teach you a whole lot about sikhi....they aren't internet sikhs, but true sikhs who have gone through a lot more than you have in your little life...secondly...you'll also find out that many of them feel totally embarrassed to be sitting on chairs, they do this out of majboori...it's either that or they sit at home... i have a grandmother myself who is 89...she took amrit when she was 11 or 12....she wakes up at amritvela everyday even in her old age and taught me as well as my brothers and sisters paath, gurmukhi, guru kiaan sakhiyaan....now due to physical ailments, she has to sit on a chair or a bench at the gurdwara....you should ask her how she feels about that....the change they have to go through is degrading to them in the first place...they don't need little internet singhs making them feel worse....grow some nimrata...read gurbani....live the Guru's ideals...

As for chairs for non sikhs....i'm totally against that...but that too should be done with love and explanation...i think it's our own fault actually....cuz...most goris when they go to weddings, it is norm in their culture to wear a dress or skirt...or other clothing that doesn't make it easy for them to sit down in the divaan...hence they'll want to sit on a chair or something...

sikh couples who have friends that are coming to their wedding...should explain to them in advance how sikh weddings are done...and that their friends should come dressed such that it'll be easy for them to sit on the floor.

[Bundha]

Sorry guys I do apologise but I must go against trend here (controversial!), based on our Pralabhad Karma we are put in situations and our reaction in those situations make up for our Vartamaan karma i.e. the karma or actions that will determine our future. For example, based on our Pralabadh karma say you become poor and sink into lot of debt. One is poor because of his or her karma but if because of the situation arising from Pralabadh karma we start stealing and cheating or do other kinds of sinful karma, then rather then woork over our karam we will be building up more bad karma. We don't have any control over Pralabadh karma but we have will power on how we are going to react in the situation and either burn it off or add more to it.

In a similar way, those people who have painful joints and cannot sit in the Gurdwara Darbar are suffering consequences of past deeds, but rather then endure and get the karm over with, they insist that they must sit in Darbar Sahib on chairs. They are now adding to their Vartamaan karma. We look at this situation from the wrong angle, it is not a matter of “Would Guru Ji exclude these unfortunate people from the Darbar” or “Would Guru Nanak Dev Ji not allow these unfortunates to be included in the darbar ? ,but rather one should understand that they have been given this punishment for a reason and the best way to burn off the karm is to endure it and still remember Gods name. Most importantly we should understand that AkalPurkh is "hazzer nazzer" in Darbar Sahib He is the ruler of everything, is it fitting that we should sit in His presence on chairs?

We have been given a punishment of sorts, so endure it, sit outside the darbar and still think of your guru, say 'Maharaj I do not have agia to sit inside' so I shall remember you from here........... Now you tell me which person is going to get the most 'phall', the most blessing from Akaal Purkh Ji, that person who insists on sitting inside or that person who sits outside and still remembers Guru Ji.

The thin about the gorey, needless to say, is totally wrong, it is really up to the parbamdhaks to sort them out, it does not matter if a person is not used to sitting on the floor , in darbar sahib there should be no chairs.

[Balait_da_Sher]

Well we all know its karma da phal but if you go by the theory that everyone must suffer because of their past sins then why do we ask for Sarbat da bhalla. Why do we believe in daswand, i mean why not let the poor be poor?

[Bundha]

Bha Ji,

<<< Well we all know its karma da phal but if you go by the theory that everyone must suffer because of their past sins then why do we ask for Sarbat da bhalla. >>>

We ask for sarbat that bhalla because Akaal Purkh is dhayawaan and it is His will, if it pleases Him that He listens to our little ardaases then in His benevolence He may sarbat dha bhalla.

<<< Why do we believe in daswand, i mean why not let the poor be poor? >>>

First of all it the hukam of Guru Ji that we keep daswand, so we must. What ever karam we have been given due to our past actions we must rise above them and do good deeds, else we just keep adding to our account. We could let the poor be poor because that is their past karm and they are working through them, BUT Guru Ji's hukam is "wand shako", so we must share and help our fellow humans.

Why do we get disease? Why do we fall ill, why do we suffer so much? Our atma is free of this, BUT it is because of our putthay kam , our bad deeds that we get ailments here and now and in our future lives and we must be careful to work them off as much as possible rather then add to them.

I ask again who is going to get blessed more - he who insists on sitting on a chair infront of the Creator of Everything or he who bows his head and sits outside and says "Guru Ji I will sit outside and remember you as I go not have your aagia to come inside"?