Contraversies

[smartsingh24]

who the hell you callin a <banned word filter activated> man?

were all part of one family...SANJHA for gods sake man!

wers the love man...if this is gunna go on like this then can admin start thinkin of closin this down?

This is a two way street. This was not directed towards you, but nonetheless, calling people names will only result in the same. If anyone wants to be taken seriously, they have to come up with well thought out arguments that don't have name-calling or a bunch of, at best, rumors which have no fact behind them. 

It is extremely frustrating to see people go around preaching ekta and at the same time slander a couple of groups, because that will do nothing towards actually including the groups, but just get the stragglers outside of any groups, and basically form another group which is dedicated towards destroying the other ones in the name of ekta. How is this going to create unity?

[shamsher]

Yea cuz we need unity inni but if u guys continew fightin like den we got some problem: u guys need 2 chill yeah cuz dis ain't funny no mor inni: cuz like u confusin peeps about wha Sikhi is really about

[AkalPurakhDiFauj]

If you can't stop adressing Singh's as "akj's" or "taksali's" in person,

at least start by adressing them properly on this forum.

better to make some progress then none at all.

i don't see the point in having a topic about the divisions,

when we are only adding on to them by addressing each other as "akj's" and "taksali's".

bhul chuk maaf.

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa,

Vaheguru ji ki Fateh!

[ParnaamShaheedaNu]

I think moderators should watch for people posting irrelevant things to the topic being discussed, and starting personal threats. I know people are entitled to their own opinion, but they should at least get warnings if they are instigating more conflict/hatred/swearing.

[AK-47]

Charan-kamal i understand completely what you are saying and understand your frustration.

Unfortunetly, you will not change peoples minds and actions over the internet, but only by sitting down and talking to them calmly face to face. The internet is very impersonal and we usually take things the wrong way (as has happened above).

I dont think the youngsters even neccasrily know that much about the 'contraversies' its just that they have pyaar for different elder sikhs and they adopt those views themselves. Which is fine. However when someone then disagrees with that view, us youngsters think that the person is 'attacking' the elder sikhs that we have pyaar for. And thats when people get angry and argue etc. Obviously there is more to it then that, but i would venture that for many of us, this is the reason for us arguing.

Then another problem is rumours, some of which are started by people just to cause friction and trouble. Without going into it too much, one rumour i have personally heard recently was to do with a so called 'secret rehnsbai' which was meant to be only for people who have taken amrit from panj pyare who do seva at akj programmes, and that nobody else would be allowed to attend. I have full belief that this is nothing but a rumour, however when it spreads some people will take it to mean the truth. Before we believe things like this, it is better to contact someone or ask somebody before passing the rumour on.

Lets just be careful before we start mouthing off yeh? We should use our brains first and our mouths second (i hope i learn to do this as well one day!!)

Key thing missing in all of us is humility. Simple as that.

[Charan-Kamal]

AK-47 Singh...i havent made any accusations and nor will i think of doin so...what i will say is that ekts is a must and if we arent gunna have it no wonder why we got people like raam raheemay

wts up with the sangat man wers the love?

[JustME]

Again if u look a bout 5 threads down from this post ull see a topic started to save a young child from a realy rare and life threating illness........i think 4 pple of the HUNDERDS REGISTERED ON THIS FORUM have responded...............im betting everone shugges shoulders ad goes "oh hope hes gets better and then sees topics like this and the brain goes into overdrive.......and the boys who needs our help is forgotton.......

Damn i shud have put "muslim" or "controversy" or "jatha" or "violence" in the title and im sure i would have got more sangat to look at it

Yeah there are problems in the panth..................but that is down to US!!! if wen start keeping rehit and follow hukam then things wouldnt exist but noooooooooooooooooo wen wanna bash and bash and bash................so chill guys focus on ur rehit and work on ur jeevans............waheguru will take care of the rest..............

Bhul chuck maafi

[Guest peacemaker]

Could you not group everyone into one category for those who haven't helped that poor child out? I find that rather rude. THANK YOU! And I'm tired about people always complaining about all the fighting that goes on here. Look, this is just how some people are and 9 times of 10 you aren't going to change them so why bother?

If you are to the point where it just drives you insane, than quit the forum. Don't come here with the holier than thou attitude because we've heard it a thousand and one times before. OK, WE GET IT!!!! Believe me we do. We're all sinners here.

You write all your "bhul chuk maaf karnis and waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fatehs", but those are mere words if they are said with EGO! It's dead air!

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR with the above.

[Kumi2]

we all know that this is a stupid topic simply becaause we all know taksalis are stuck in there ways and that same goes for akjs but what we need to do is find commen ground which is wat sanjha akhand keertan darbar is doing forget weather one thinks that sant jarnail singh ji is alive or shaheed forget weather one thinks raag mala is bani or not forget all other beefs that we may have why not sit and discuss the stuff we all have in commen i.e seva, simran, kirtan feel free to add what u want to the list

[Ambrosia]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh Pyaray Sangat Ji,

This will be long, so I'm warning you... but PLEASE please take the time to read through it, I guarantee it will be fun and interesting, ok?

If we look at World History, we will find a couple common features: Societies, Countries, Nations, Entire civilizations, and even Religions, literally break down by Division. I'm going to share a bit of examples, because history is a greatly undervalued source of advice on what "not to do".

Here are a few examples:

The Jews of Ancient time divided into 14 tribes and lead nomadic lives; It made their homeland of Israel very hard to rule-over and manage, thus Egypt ruled over the Jews and used them as slaves. (Until Moses came along and lead them out of slavery and made them strong again)... In modern times they have divided again into "orthodox, reform, conservative etc" but the not-so-far memory of the Holocaust has united them in some ways... (not there yet)

The Muslims divided into Sunni and Shi'ite and Sufis. The division was caused by belief in different successor for Muhammed. (Sunnis believe the successor gotta be the most religious follower, and the Shi'ites believe it was Ali the cousin of Muhammed). Now they are constantly killing eachother, and at eachother's throats, even though ironically they are both muslim. Not to mention a dark period of history in which it was a "Sufi Hunt" - to kill all sufis possible, in the most gruesome ways possible, just because of their slightly more mystical beliefs.

The Christians divided, and as a result a lot of bloodshed, wars, crusades and murders, supposed "Witch-hunts", burning of books, burning and jailing of people, etc. Their main divisions was into Catholicism, Orthodox and Protestantism, and from then Protestantism into a huge bunch of sub denominations. Today things seem to be "stable", but it is obvious that the Catholic Church and Vatican, Rome hold hardly any power at all, over anything much, compared to some hundred years ago, mainly because of the divisions.

The Amerindians (aka First Nations) of Mexico, USA, and Canada, were already widely divided. A whole bunch of tribes/nations flourished (despite small mini-wars and attacks among themselves) mainly because of the vastness of land available. Some were sedentary, others nomadic... Well, when the explorers came along and decided to STEAL their land and claim it for France, Spain and England... the Amerindians were so divided that they could not organize themselves to fight in a way that could benefit them all for saving their land. And as a result they lost their birth-land, the land they had for thousands of years. They were brutally killed, massive genocides took place, etc... though some small tribes are still around today, their "Nation" has been reduced for the most part to... small Indian reserves struck with poverty and drug abuse, and their resources (like water and trees and mines) are routinely getting taken away from them.

As for India... Firstly, take a look at the Caste System (an obvious form of division of people) and what it has done to the lives of people? Marriages being broken cause he/she wasn't of the "right" caste, wives and children enslaved to brahmins because men of lower caste thought it would "bring them salvation" to give their wives and children away and then kill themselves with some "big saw". Countless murders and injustices on the basis of Caste. (On the basis of Division). (an example given above by someone is the story of Bhagat Namdev, who was beaten and kicked out for "spoiling" a "holy bhramin temple"... because we was of lower caste.

What about 1947... What did the partition of 1947 do to Punjab and the Punjabi people? And the Sikh people? The Sikh Nation? It was yet again, a Division (this time, obviously physical). Looking at maps of Punjab one can see the constant "getting smaller and smaller" divisions being made, of the once Huge and Vast and Riverful Punjab. And what effects it has had on it's people... Once a Nation, Once a Kingdom, now... a state that is quite small, divided, and surrounded by 'enemies' so to speak. It's inhabitants being driven into poverty, people willing to sell off relatives, water and wheat constantly being "Stolen" away from them, people resorting to drugs and alcohol to numb the mind... signs of a breaking society...

Conquering/Ruling People who love Power have always known this simple Fact:

DIVIDE AND RULE.

If you can manage to create physical, or even better instigate psychological/mental divisions in the Country, Religion, Nation, you wish to conquer over, you are set! Division creates havoc in communities, divisions make people vulnerable, and thus easier to control, assimilate, rule over, etc.

Division, is the LAST thing the Sikh Nation, The Sikh Faith, The Sikh Community, the Followers of our Great Gurus... need at this point. We already have OTHER people who are trying to divide us ... why are we dividing our own selves?

-Hindu fundamentalists, and some government secret agencies are out there trying to divide the Sikh panth (the rise of unstopped random Dera groups, the rise of badly written school books miseducating punjabi youth about Sikhism, the spying on foreign and Indian Gurdwaras, the spreading of rumors, tension, etc).

-1947

-1984

-Muslim fundamentalists trying to convert Sikh (and other) girls to Islam, and then some of them shipping them unwittingly to Pakistan and other places to sell them as prostitutes.

-The Jailing, torturing, and "mysterious" disappearances of Thousands of Sikh Youth in Punjab and other states since even before 1984, and still goes on today (less noticed)...

-Some Christian organizations trying to convert Sikhs to Christianity

-The immigration to the west of tons of Sikhs, and then the challenges faced in western society regarding Beards, Turbans, Kirpans... discrimination... hate crimes... which gave rise of a bunch of Sikhs becoming clean-shaven, and then finding rationals for it thus more division.

-The huge amount of "Sikh-Denominations"... (Some of them small out there ones, started God-Knows how)

Division leads to Destruction.

**That's indeed how to throw a mountain to the ground... blast it with explosives so it breaks into smaller and smaller rocks... no longer a big strong mountain, aint it?!**

In this dark age of Kaliyug, we must become stronger than ever, united as ever, fearless and brave, and watching out for ALL our brothers and sisters, and walk with conviction, faith, grace, strength, fierceness when needed, and compassion, love, and UNITY.

Bickering over small details and dividing our own community is of pure ignorant, egotistical, and shameful behavior. Spread more PYAR, Love your brothers and sisters, love all of humanity. Do Seva for ALL, Do Simran for ALL, Do Sangat with ALL. In this way not only can we unite the panth, we can also unite our minds to our Lord and Guru.

What are you waiting for?! Hug your neighbour. haha Get out there and show your Unity to the Sikh Panth, and the Panth of Humanity. We have a lot of work to do...

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh Ji....

PS: It IS Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji who said "There is no Hindu, There is no Muslim" - The God of ALL is ONE. Now, if OUR Guru said that about different Religions, how can we GRR about different groups within Sikhi?

May we echo, with longing and love... There is no 'this Jatha' and 'that Jatha', There is no Us and Them. - The God of ALL is ONE.