Vedanti Takes Stupidity To Another Level!

[Jai Tegang!]

Just like to respond to the original post.

Lets not be quick to run down any Sadhu Sant if they weren't Amritdhari. It's true, very true, that Amrit is a hukam from Guru Gobind Singh sahib maharaj. But, there are rare cases of certain mahapurakhs who have achieved Bhramgyian being non-amritdhari.

The reason this stuff is not usually openly told is that the hukam of Guru ji is always paramount. It is Guruji's wish if he wishes to give this high avastha to a Sadhu Sant who hasn't followed Amrit Rehit.

One such example is Bhramgyain mahapursh "Raja Sahib" or Raja Nabh-kamal ji. These mahapursh usually fit under the "mastaney" category.

1. Daanay- those who keep the full Rehit, and have emmense gyian and do immense parchar as a result of this.

2. Diwaney- some people will understand them, others will not. Always intoxicated in love of Vaheguru.

3. Mastaney- very very few people even recognize them, and even fewer will understand them. Their actions are very unpredictable. For example. Brahmgyani Baba Baan-batta ji who used to walk around with a rag tied around the wait to cover themselves, and would act like mentally challemged person(drawing lines on walls). One time Baba Gurbachan Singh ji (Bhinderawale) was walking with their students and suddenly stopped and starting gazing at a man drawing lines on a wall. After a while the man (Baba Baan-batta ji) turned around, smiled at Baba Gurbachan Singh ji, and said " i have to keep myself hidden, otherwise this world would stick to me like flies on sugar". After saying this, Baba Baan-batta resumed drawing lines.

Some MAstaney Mahapursh keep rehit, others don't. Some keep kesh, other don't.

But this is not a licence to emulate them. OUR duty is to follow the HUKAM of Guru Gobind Singh ji and follow Amrit Maryada. It's not in our power to become mastaney...these are rare rare souls who have done bhagati for Maharaj knows how many hundreds of lives.

My point is, it's not correct to judge a Brahmgyani by their appearence. These are bhagats sadhu sants from this and previous yugs who have accomplised everything and are only here as it pleases Maharaj.

As Bhai Gurdass ji says so beautifully( i have to paraphrase since can't recall the vaar #) that just cause Bhagat Sadhana (who was a butcher previous to engaging in bhagati) or Bhagat Dhanna (who got darshan of Vaheguru through a ordinary rock) obtained vaheguru ji, doesn't mean you can copy them in their old actions and also hope to obtain God.

These Bhagats had hundreds of lives of Bhagati that was to ripen in that particular janam.

So lets not copy them, just follow hukam of Guru Maharaj ji.

I don't know who this Baba Hazara Singh ji is. Whether he was a Brhamgyani or not, I don't know. Regardless, lets not insult any Sadhu Sant who may not have Sikhi saroop.

[dalsingh101]

Alot of what you said is alrite. I don't disagree with most of it. But whatever happens in future is already destined. We had a leader like Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Jee Khalsa Bhindranwale who didn't compromise Gurmat a single bit. So I am not sure if in future we would have to suffice with a leader (in terms of Gurmat and Gursikhi) like Ranjit Singh, although a strategist like him would be an asset and a tool to bend mighty powers before the Khalsa, rather than bending the rehits of Sikhi. A Sikh who doesn't bow in the face of the worst opposition, chaos and turmoil, yet holds firmly to Gurujee makes the entire world bow before him/her. We would have to wait and find out. My closing point being, its not necessary to have an able leader who is skilled but compromises rehit, however if thats what Gurujee has planned for us, we can't help it. But we can have faith that He will bless with a rehitvaan Gurmukh as panth sewadaar (not leader, as our sole leader is only and only Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee).

Just want to say - Especially to the strictest rehatvan Sikhs.

If today you were face to face with a kunjar manmukh like M. Ranjit Singh. And he said: "What have you done for Sikhi that makes you a better Sikh than me?"

What would you say?

[Manjot_13]

There are good and bad amungst both groups. There are good amritdharis and there are also bad amritdharis eg. Vendanti. Then there's the good mona who are going to gurudwara and doing seva and all that stuff, and theres the other kind who cant go 5 seconds with out soem meat and sharab.

conlcusion?

THERES GOOD AND BAD AMOGNST BOTH SIDES IF WE CAN STOP BEING SO JUDGEMENTAL WE CAN START TO SEE PEOPLE BASED ON THERE ACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mehtab Singh]

Just want to say - Especially to the strictest rehatvan Sikhs.

If today you were face to face with a kunjar manmukh like M. Ranjit Singh. And he said: "What have you done for Sikhi that makes you a better Sikh than me?"

What would you say?

I am gonna try to answer, although I am no rehetvan Sikh.

Firstly I am no one to judge Raja Ranjit Singh as a "kunjar manmukh". Secondly, if we had a leader and strategist like him, things would surely be different for the better.

You gotta quit taking the p!$ out of Amritdharis every time you sit down to post. You didn't have anything solid to respond in that thread about hair vs nails. You didn't have an answer in this thread while defending monnay and idol worship when you said monnay could be brahm gyani and that Bhagat Dhanna ji attained God through idol worship whereas Gurbani is clearly against idol worship. You couldn't name a mona who did good for Sikhi, could you? Or did I miss reading it? Now you don't have anything left to say about Ranjit Singh, so again you are taking the p!$ by posing such unwanted questions specifically to Amritdharis. Why? What use is it? Why use this tactic of changing topic and diverting offtrack if you can't answer? You think no one notices it?

What exactly is your problem? Do you suffer some kind of inferiority complex or intimidation that you always have to, out of the blues, for no reason come up every single time with something directly/indirectly that shifts the blame and condemnation towards Amritdharis? I am surprised you didn't blame Amritdharis for not taking action after 2 bombs went off in a Muslim dargah in India. Yeah blame those "cowardly Amritdharis" for that as well! I am not sure what kind of Sikhs you've come across in UK. Your words don't reflect very good about them. Looks like you probably need to travel a bit and see Sikhs in other countries as well. You say that Amritdharis in UK don't have guts? If thats the case, try messing with the ones in Canada (Toronto or Vancouver) and get a taste of what it is to mess with a Singh. Just because you have had bad experiences repeatedly doesn't mean the rest of the Sikhs worldwide are hopeless. Probably you are unfortunate enough not to have met the ones who are all that, have you considered that option? Like Manjot13 said, there are good and bad people on both sides, infact all sides.

You want things to change, you be the one to come forward and take that much needed step! You think Amritdharis in UK are hopeless, you come forward and sort out what needs sorting! Don't give me that "I am not ready yet". If you aint ready then prepare yourself first before you pose unwanted questions to others. If you aint ready yet then don't say stuff just to make yourself feel better and cover up your weakness under the garb of ego. I know how it feels because I was myself a mona (to make it sound 100 times harsher, I was a Hindu Bahman, OH GOD!!!). But I didn't wail and whine 24/7 about how Amritdharis have devastated Sikhi and what kind of chickens they are. I am in no position to do any sewa for the Panth as of now, but the least I can do is keep my mouth shut and not judge/condemn those who are atleast trying to make an effort (no I am not referring to SGPC, Akali Dal or Vedanti). I am not going to ask you what have you done for Sikhi. Maybe you've done alot more as a mona than I can as a Sikh-by-appearance. But that gives you no right to degrade Amritdharis. You should be thankful that the admins/mods on this forum have let you post and have not put you under moderation. I appreciate their patience because mine seems to be running out.

I am light years away from what a genuine and true Amritdhari is, but here is another homework for you. Next time you want to post anything, and I mean any bloody thing in this universe against Amritdharis on this forum for no reason, dare to look at your face in the mirror and ask yourself "Am I worth it!" What your conscience tells you then will reflect what exactly is your intention.

Over and out!

[N30S1NGH]

Just like to respond to the original post.

Lets not be quick to run down any Sadhu Sant if they weren't Amritdhari. It's true, very true, that Amrit is a hukam from Guru Gobind Singh sahib maharaj. But, there are rare cases of certain mahapurakhs who have achieved Bhramgyian being non-amritdhari.

The reason this stuff is not usually openly told is that the hukam of Guru ji is always paramount. It is Guruji's wish if he wishes to give this high avastha to a Sadhu Sant who hasn't followed Amrit Rehit.

One such example is Bhramgyain mahapursh "Raja Sahib" or Raja Nabh-kamal ji. These mahapursh usually fit under the "mastaney" category.

1. Daanay- those who keep the full Rehit, and have emmense gyian and do immense parchar as a result of this.

2. Diwaney- some people will understand them, others will not. Always intoxicated in love of Vaheguru.

3. Mastaney- very very few people even recognize them, and even fewer will understand them. Their actions are very unpredictable. For example. Brahmgyani Baba Baan-batta ji who used to walk around with a rag tied around the wait to cover themselves, and would act like mentally challemged person(drawing lines on walls). One time Baba Gurbachan Singh ji (Bhinderawale) was walking with their students and suddenly stopped and starting gazing at a man drawing lines on a wall. After a while the man (Baba Baan-batta ji) turned around, smiled at Baba Gurbachan Singh ji, and said " i have to keep myself hidden, otherwise this world would stick to me like flies on sugar". After saying this, Baba Baan-batta resumed drawing lines.

Some MAstaney Mahapursh keep rehit, others don't. Some keep kesh, other don't.

But this is not a licence to emulate them. OUR duty is to follow the HUKAM of Guru Gobind Singh ji and follow Amrit Maryada. It's not in our power to become mastaney...these are rare rare souls who have done bhagati for Maharaj knows how many hundreds of lives.

My point is, it's not correct to judge a Brahmgyani by their appearence. These are bhagats sadhu sants from this and previous yugs who have accomplised everything and are only here as it pleases Maharaj.

As Bhai Gurdass ji says so beautifully( i have to paraphrase since can't recall the vaar #) that just cause Bhagat Sadhana (who was a butcher previous to engaging in bhagati) or Bhagat Dhanna (who got darshan of Vaheguru through a ordinary rock) obtained vaheguru ji, doesn't mean you can copy them in their old actions and also hope to obtain God.

These Bhagats had hundreds of lives of Bhagati that was to ripen in that particular janam.

So lets not copy them, just follow hukam of Guru Maharaj ji.

I don't know who this Baba Hazara Singh ji is. Whether he was a Brhamgyani or not, I don't know. Regardless, lets not insult any Sadhu Sant who may not have Sikhi saroop.

excellent post bro :WW:

[JustME]

Just want to say - Especially to the strictest rehatvan Sikhs.

If today you were face to face with a kunjar manmukh like M. Ranjit Singh. And he said: "What have you done for Sikhi that makes you a better Sikh than me?"

What would you say?

wots with the "im better than you, you better than me" ?

sikh true gursikh does not consider himself higher and batter than anyone veer G, a true gursikh consideres himself the lowest of the lowest and loves whoever crosses his path.................Veer G i understand uafter reading the conversation Mehtab Singh Veer .......ive noticed that u seem to find any excuse to bash amritdharis.........im not sure whether this is down to some personal experience you may have had or not but please do not try to triumph your arguments and the expenses of trying to humiliate or degrate someone else............

at the end of the day everything is under hukam..............a concept so difficult to grasp...........if a bhramgaini hasnt taken amrit but reaches a high avastah then that is wahegurus hukam................and why should we question it? i would like to see u stand in front of AKAL PURAKH WAHEGURU himself and have this argument............................sometimes we just need to shutup and follow his hukam.............by hey if we did that Kakljug would become sachkand

[Singhstah]

In regards to Je Tegang ji's post, would these mastane devane etc etc, in the middle of their love for God, take time out and say "Oh wait a sec, let me just have a shave"?

If they were sooo much in love with Vaheguroo wouldnt they have compleltey forgotten about how they look and not really care.

To become a brahmgyani you would have to be immersed in Vaheguroo 24/7, I dont think someone would still have the ego of their own appearance after doing that.

Await responses

bhull chukk maaf

Vaheguroo

ps. in regards to that story about Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji, did they give any reply to this person writing on the walls, was there any continuation?

[dalsingh101]

You didn't have anything solid to respond in that thread about hair vs nails.

I thought I did. I explained how people using those weak pseudo scientific arguments some people were suggesting were likely to get out of their depth when they talk about things they have poor knowledge of. I have seen this happen on a few occasions. I told you all what i was taught regarding roop, how it ensured Singhs were distinct and unable to hide themselves in times of crisis. Also that it was one of the "external symbols" of the inward belief of a Sikh. This was pretty much confirmed by Rattan Singh Bhangu, who incidentally is the grandson of your famous namesake.

It is other people who have made this issue convoluted and unnecessarily complex and then struggle to provide a decent explanation when asked. What does it say that many people who keep kesh don't seem to know why they do it and have to go on the Internet to find out, probably after keeping kesh for years. My main thrust was keeping things logical and straightforward, I thought I had made this point clearly but maybe I was wrong.

My whole point about the "manmukh kunjar" statement was to illustrate what some narrow minded people would consider anyone who was like M..Ranjit Singh today. Fact on the ground is that we are having a leadership crisis, I was merely highlighting how a nonreligious person did a grand job in the past and perhaps that is where we may be going wrong now by being excessively judgemental on the criteria for leaders and not allowing people who could probably do a much better job than the current crop due to narrow mindedness which clear evidence shows our people never seemed to have had before. Results count. M.Ranjit Singh delivered.

And you need to be patient because these are issues that effect all Sikhs, whether practicing or not. Hard questions need to be asked, some of which are uncomfortable. For the record I, like most people from Panjabi backgrounds I imagine, grew up idolising the SIkh (Khalsa) warriors of the past. What is wrong with highlighting the difference between the Khalsa of today against the Khalsa of yesterday. I make these points to discuss something that is important. To my understanding, that people seem to be getting so narrow minded today that it is bogging down the panth.

Your other question about a mona who has done really good seva in the past - Look up Diwan Kaura Mal. He was a mona in the mid 1700s who worked in government, he made the moghuls let up on the Singhs when they faced extermination. Sent information regarding enemy troop movements and secretly supplied the Khalsa with food and weapons when people doing this had to face the death penalty and many Khalsas were starving to death because villages would have nothing to do with them in fear of the government.

Firstly I am no one to judge Raja Ranjit Singh as a "kunjar manmukh". Secondly, if we had a leader and strategist like him, things would surely be different for the better.

I personally believe a good number of such people exist but are put off taking a lead because of the ignorant self centred leaders we currently have, who are leading us from one crisis to another. Let others take a lead.

[Mehtab Singh]

The funny thing is we both have similar intentions, similar goals, and are aiming for the same target. Its just that we see/perceive/understand it differently.

[KH4L1$T4N1]

whether those mastaney divane etc etc. have high avasthas its up to God to decide, But people who are born SIKHS and cut their kes are PATITS! Patit=manmukh, so how can manmukh=mahapursh/brahmgiani? makes no sense does it?

Whats next a mona jathedaar of akaal takht? mona head granthi of Harmandir Sahib? where do you draw the line?