~! Danger Of Bhausaria Mindset In The Panth !~

[jss]

the easiest way to beat the bhausaria mindset isn't actually to call these so-called scholars out...

there's no need for debate, or even discussion or conferences....that's where all the doubts actually get made...even if you succeed at winning a person over....the whole experience of it will put doubts in someone's mind...someone else will go and think about harder points to disprove..and so on...

the easiest way to beat the mindset is to stop harping on being such knowledgeable sampardas, stop harping about how sants are great (which i fully believe, dont' get me wrong)...and actually take the giyaan from the sampardha, follow what the sant mahapursh say about living a gursikhi life, follow guru sahib, do your naam kamaaieee, adopt the virtues of the gurmukhs, rid ourselves from out baser instincts...

i was watching a lecture by a certain missionary professor...and more than what he was saying, was the vibrations i was getting from him...the look on his face....he was uptight, no spiritual glow of peacefulness, no happiness, no shukrana...everything was kitabi giyaan and that too from i don't know which kitaab...he seemed soo upset the whole time he was talking...

then i look at singhs who've done sadh sangat with pooran mahapurkhs...and i'm not just talking about singhs who claim to do sangat with them/not pakhandis...but singhs who have done sangat....these guys don't even have to go and do parchar...they just are full of peace and love and aatmic giyaan... you are instinctively drawn to them and sit with them....tthey don't need to carry posters saying...i'm from this samparda or that ...or i did sangat of this mahapurkh or that... you can simply feel the difference on their faces...

if we just live the parchar we wish to do ...that is more than enough...

[Mehtab Singh]

if we just live the parchar we wish to do ...that is more than enough...

:WW: :WW: :WW: :WW: :WW:

[kaal_tuhi]

One way of defeating the Bhasauriyaa mindset is if Puratan sampardas stick together...

If there was no infighting in sampardas and we could show a united front

Nihangs, Taksaal, Nirmalas, Addan-shaadhis, Udasis, Sant Samaaj....

UNITED WE STAND!

[N30S1NGH]

the easiest way to beat the bhausaria mindset isn't actually to call these so-called scholars out...

there's no need for debate, or even discussion or conferences....that's where all the doubts actually get made...even if you succeed at winning a person over....the whole experience of it will put doubts in someone's mind...someone else will go and think about harder points to disprove..and so on...

the easiest way to beat the mindset is to stop harping on being such knowledgeable sampardas, stop harping about how sants are great (which i fully believe, dont' get me wrong)...and actually take the giyaan from the sampardha, follow what the sant mahapursh say about living a gursikhi life, follow guru sahib, do your naam kamaaieee, adopt the virtues of the gurmukhs, rid ourselves from out baser instincts...

i was watching a lecture by a certain missionary professor...and more than what he was saying, was the vibrations i was getting from him...the look on his face....he was uptight, no spiritual glow of peacefulness, no happiness, no shukrana...everything was kitabi giyaan and that too from i don't know which kitaab...he seemed soo upset the whole time he was talking...

then i look at singhs who've done sadh sangat with pooran mahapurkhs...and i'm not just talking about singhs who claim to do sangat with them/not pakhandis...but singhs who have done sangat....these guys don't even have to go and do parchar...they just are full of peace and love and aatmic giyaan... you are instinctively drawn to them and sit with them....tthey don't need to carry posters saying...i'm from this samparda or that ...or i did sangat of this mahapurkh or that... you can simply feel the difference on their faces...

if we just live the parchar we wish to do ...that is more than enough...

in case you got lost in this debate, thats exactly my point i mentioned this on my first post:

So real enemy is that mindset not any personality, group of people. Only way to get rid of it, is by parchar which should politely target this bhasuaria mindset which has deep rooted in many praticing sikhs today.

During this course i do want to expose bhusaria mindset by providing facts, not only this in this thread i posted stuff on samparda's not out of pride in them but i have compare the two by still holding the fact samparda's are not perfect and condemning caste discrimination in them. so now you tell me, how this harping on samparda's.

if one wish to cover up kartuta by bhausaria mindset likes of missionaries/ghagga/afghana just that to pretent everything is all fine and dandy, then its up to them. This is same carefree attitude bought us to panth dandikala here, one thing i really like about western soceity after 9/11 is they do assessement of very threat whether minor or major very deeply and think about the consquences/solutions before hand instead of pretending everything is fine and atleast they are not suprised when *#&^#&^ hits the fan and look confused

This issue is serious has to do with our khasam guru- sri guru granth sahib ji sanity, bhausaria mindset people in the past have done it and they have very potential to do so again.

quoting from previous post

People should realize bhausaria mindset is very dangerous to khalsa panth, this threat is far more damaging and serious than rss, nirankaris, radhaswamis, bjp, congress together. They have in the past attempted to tamper with gurbani and have very intentions to do this in future.

We are all proud of sri guru granth sahib ji being first dharamic granth in the world actually written by guru's and can actually be fully authenciated by guru's signatures in puratans birs/manuscripts. We are proud of this fact as opposed to quran, bible, puran, smrithiyas which were written thousands of thousands years ago which cannot be fully authenciated. Don't fool yourself sangat this very bhausaria mindset already started to creation confusion and doubts on jaap sahib, tav parsad svaiye, chaupi sahib part of amrit sanchar banis, their future target is very clear- bhai gurdas ji varan, sukhmani sahib asthapathidiyas. I wouldnt be suprised in next 200 years or so these bhausaria panthis will be successful created their own reformed version of sri guru granth sahib ji and started placing in your local gurdwaras if massive puratan parchar is not done.

[TeriSharan.]

i also agree with this statement by charandhoor singh.

AKJ and Damdami taksal may seem cousins because of their joint efforts during harsh times of 1980's. But If you look at them deeply they have some major idealogical differences besides the obvious - keski, ragmalla etc. Here are list of some of them :

AKJ believe keski as Kakkar because all women and men should keep their hair covered at all time. Namastang bro think about it kakkars are materials, and hair is naturally given by guru sahib and come into the 4 kurehita. I don't think its acceptable bibia wearing patka or chunnia because guru sahib says: Khalsa Mero Roop has Kaas. Its hard to Differentiate a bibi wearing a patka or chunni with a muslim women. Where as a Babi wearing a dastar, you can tell straight away she is a singni of Guru Gobing Singh

Guru Gobind Singh tied a dastar on Mata Bhago jee, even though she reached brahmgyani stage.

Even Bibia before Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee existed wore dastars, please read this article below posted on win.

"vahegurooo je ka khalsa vahegurooo je ke fateh!

Nothing much related to taksal, but some intresting facts about our history and rehit.

1.

I meet my nana jee's Sister who is 80++ years old sometime ago.

Once, I saw an old picture on my mata jee's Grandmother(paternal), she was wearing a keske .So, I asked my nana jee's sister , about her mother wearing a keeske.

She confirmed that in our family keske rehit was kept.

She said:

" Many people didn't use to take amrit, only those who were ready to become a Sikh(with strong commitment) took amrit.

Amrit sanchars were also not very common in those days, so those who got amrit dee daat weren't in a big number.

In those days, many Amritdhari bibian use to do their Joora and tie it on top of their head and tie a choti dastar(keske) and then wear a dupatta .When I was a child, all of our family members use to live together back in our home(kothi) in our village.My Grand mother( guruvah's great great grand mother), my mother(guruvah's great grandmother) and all of my 3 sisters use to keep a choti dastar.Eventho, I and my 2 other sisters were not amritdhari's we still use do our joora on top of our head because our mother and grandmother did so.

When I and my sisters use to go to the town, many people would make fun us by calling us Jorey Walea."

I also asked her:

" Was our family by anyway associated with Akhand Keertani Jatha?"

She said:

"What group is that?"

I replied:

" I was refering by Bhai Randhir Singh Narangwal wale and his companions"

She said:

" Oh...you mean by RANDHIRIS? No, not at all. We use to go to Baba nand Singh's sangat(nanaksar)"

Take note :

That my great great grandmother and great grandmother were born before 1900's, this was before AKJ came into existance.So this rehit wasn't actually invented by akj as many people "claim".

All 3 generations living under one roof, kept keski rehit.Eventho, my nani ji and her sisters weren't amritdhare's.

so, how come the dastar started to DIS-APPEAR from our bibian's head?

Point I am making AKJ's did'nt start this tradition of keski, its been going on since the time of guru gobind singh jee

Issue on Raagmala, not only akj's don't read, but other gursikhs don't. Read Gyani Gurdit Jee's book. Also their is a gurdwhara in Sweden that don't read raag mala at the end of bhogs and keep sarbloh langer.

Also at every Akal Takht amrit sanchar, bibia had to wear a keksi, but when Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafir became jathedar this rehit was abolished. The reason is because less bibia attended because they would have to wear a keski, wear as when kesh was made kakkar more bibia came.

Again its not just AKJ'S!!

- Taksal beleives in gurbani have more than one interpertations, based on uthanka, anubhav parkash/adhyatamic arths whereas akj beleives gurbani can only be interperted on vikhayaran if you read bhai joginder singh ji talwara work.

I can't answer this question because I am not a professional scholar on gurbani, but please appreciate the works of Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara, he took a lot of time out and showing human errors is guru sahib jee saroops.

- Taksal beleive in katha along with all samparda's as mukhvak from gurbani- Sub tu utam har ki katha..., in fact first thing taksal jathedars emphasises to its students after santhiy is learn jeevani of guru's from soraj parkash granth.

AKJ's are not against katha at all, they believe gurbani is the highest form of katha and you can really go wrong!

hir kIAw kQw khwxIAw myry ipAwry siqgurU suxweIAw ]

har keeaa kuthaa kehaaneeaa maerae piaarae sathiguroo sunaaeeaa

The True Guru has preached the sermon of the Lord, O my dear beloved.

hir kI kQw ird mwih bsweI ]

har kee kuthaa ridh maahi busaaee

Enshrine the Lord's Sermon within your heart,

mn bWCq sgly Pl pweI ]2]

mun baashuth sugulae ful paaee

and you shall obtain all the desires of your mind. ||2||

har kee kuthaa hirudhai busaavai

He implants the Sermon of the Lord in his heart.

har keeaa kuthaa kehaaneeaa maerae piaarae sathiguroo sunaaeeaa

The True Guru has preached the sermon of the Lord, O my dear beloved.

Which clearly shows gurbani is the true katha, because it has no mistakes. Any human being can make mistakes when doing katha. Gurbani is the true katha!!

- Taksal emphasize on learning different languages so that students can read and understand sri dasam granth and other spiritual school of thoughts. I dont know about mehta but bhindrankalan this was heavily emphasized looking at the fact taksal has nirmale influence ie- before sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale jathedars. This is hardly found in akj, but looking at the efforts of bhai kulbir singh from tapoban, hopefully this will not be the case in future.

There are many gursikhs from the jatha who have knowlege of different languages. Again Taksal is a school for learming gurbani and akj has totally a different motives. The jatha was started by a group of gursikhs who were close and done day and night simran and gurbany abyyaiaas. Who performed lots of akand paaths and keeran progs. Who are strict on rehit.

- Taksal beleive in avtarvad (vahiguroo transcedents its attributes to avtars) in sikhi which aligns with gurbani sidhant as opposed to missionary who beleives guru ji was less than prophet cannot find perform miracles. However akj beleives that sri guru nanak dev ji was a standalone prophet rest are all fake and failed, sachkhand was open by sri guru nanak dev ji only keshadhari who have taken khanda da amrit is allowed there.

Yes Krishna, jesus and mohammed did all fail. They were all given limited power by good. They did'nt have the divine virtues and all had haumai!! Satguroo Nanak is the only giver of naam and was present throughout the 4 ages.

chaarae jaagae chuhu jugee punchaaein aapae hoaa

The four Gurus enlightened the four ages; the Lord Himself assumed the fifth form.

- Taksal beleive in importance of sants and taking updesh from them but akj dont feel need to take updesh from them.

The jatha has many gursikhs who are true sants, but they don't label them with the title sant. The reason is that gursikh lebelled with sant could get haumai, and fall heavily on this path which is very hard. Great gursikh like Bhai Swarn singh is a example of sant, who did a whole akhand paath on himself, but he still fell on this path. Also great gursikhs were called: Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Mani Singh, Baba Budha Jee and Bhai Gurdas Jee

Also the true sant label goes to guru granth sahib jee, and jathedar of AKJ are always change!!

- Taksal beleive in reciting the numbers of bani with sehaj so that slowly but surely jiv gets in ajapa jap mode, akj beleive in naam drita (madma, pasanti, para bani etc)- jap on shabad- Vahiguroo. Akj put major emphasizes on japing on naam- vahiguroo. However taksal beleive same avastha can be attained by mool mantar and other guru ghars mantars- Ikongkar(Bij mantar)/ Mala Mantar- Japji sahib, Parapoorbla mantar- Satnam

The jatha yes does believe is naam dhrid, which is blessed by punj pyare in the form of guru gobind singh jee. Other gursikhs like Sant Attar Singhh Jee were blessed with this technique as well. The jatha does believe as well as jaaping naam, gurbani abyiaas should be immence at the same time.

Akj and Taksal are very close, the gursikhs have a lot of pyaar towards each other and love each other. Bhai Randhir Singh and Baba Gurbachan Singh jee loved each other as well, so start comparing!!

I am posting this to show that the remarks namastang has made are not just perfomed by jatha, but also other gursikhs and jatha share the same throughts.

Sorry if i offended anybody.

VaahegurooJeeKhaalsaa, VaahegurooJeeKeeFaateh!!

thats it for now.

[immortal57]

i also agree with this statement by charandhoor singh.

AKJ and Damdami taksal may seem cousins because of their joint efforts during harsh times of 1980's. But If you look at them deeply they have some major idealogical differences besides the obvious - keski, ragmalla etc. Here are list of some of them :

AKJ believe keski as Kakkar because all women and men should keep their hair covered at all time. Namastang bro think about it kakkars are materials, and hair is naturally given by guru sahib and come into the 4 kurehita. I don't think its acceptable bibia wearing patka or chunnia because guru sahib says: Khalsa Mero Roop has Kaas. Its hard to Differentiate a bibi wearing a patka or chunni with a muslim women. Where as a Babi wearing a dastar, you can tell straight away she is a singni of Guru Gobing Singh

Guru Gobind Singh tied a dastar on Mata Bhago jee, even though she reached brahmgyani stage.

Even Bibia before Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee existed wore dastars, please read this article below posted on win.

"vahegurooo je ka khalsa vahegurooo je ke fateh!

Nothing much related to taksal, but some intresting facts about our history and rehit.

1.

I meet my nana jee's Sister who is 80++ years old sometime ago.

Once, I saw an old picture on my mata jee's Grandmother(paternal), she was wearing a keske .So, I asked my nana jee's sister , about her mother wearing a keeske.

She confirmed that in our family keske rehit was kept.

She said:

" Many people didn't use to take amrit, only those who were ready to become a Sikh(with strong commitment) took amrit.

Amrit sanchars were also not very common in those days, so those who got amrit dee daat weren't in a big number.

In those days, many Amritdhari bibian use to do their Joora and tie it on top of their head and tie a choti dastar(keske) and then wear a dupatta .When I was a child, all of our family members use to live together back in our home(kothi) in our village.My Grand mother( guruvah's great great grand mother), my mother(guruvah's great grandmother) and all of my 3 sisters use to keep a choti dastar.Eventho, I and my 2 other sisters were not amritdhari's we still use do our joora on top of our head because our mother and grandmother did so.

When I and my sisters use to go to the town, many people would make fun us by calling us Jorey Walea."

I also asked her:

" Was our family by anyway associated with Akhand Keertani Jatha?"

She said:

"What group is that?"

I replied:

" I was refering by Bhai Randhir Singh Narangwal wale and his companions"

She said:

" Oh...you mean by RANDHIRIS? No, not at all. We use to go to Baba nand Singh's sangat(nanaksar)"

Take note :

That my great great grandmother and great grandmother were born before 1900's, this was before AKJ came into existance.So this rehit wasn't actually invented by akj as many people "claim".

All 3 generations living under one roof, kept keski rehit.Eventho, my nani ji and her sisters weren't amritdhare's.

so, how come the dastar started to DIS-APPEAR from our bibian's head?

Point I am making AKJ's did'nt start this tradition of keski, its been going on since the time of guru gobind singh jee

Issue on Raagmala, not only akj's don't read, but other gursikhs don't. Read Gyani Gurdit Jee's book. Also their is a gurdwhara in Sweden that don't read raag mala at the end of bhogs and keep sarbloh langer.

Also at every Akal Takht amrit sanchar, bibia had to wear a keksi, but when Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafir became jathedar this rehit was abolished. The reason is because less bibia attended because they would have to wear a keski, wear as when kesh was made kakkar more bibia came.

Again its not just AKJ'S!!

- Taksal beleives in gurbani have more than one interpertations, based on uthanka, anubhav parkash/adhyatamic arths whereas akj beleives gurbani can only be interperted on vikhayaran if you read bhai joginder singh ji talwara work.

I can't answer this question because I am not a professional scholar on gurbani, but please appreciate the works of Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara, he took a lot of time out and showing human errors is guru sahib jee saroops.

- Taksal beleive in katha along with all samparda's as mukhvak from gurbani- Sub tu utam har ki katha..., in fact first thing taksal jathedars emphasises to its students after santhiy is learn jeevani of guru's from soraj parkash granth.

AKJ's are not against katha at all, they believe gurbani is the highest form of katha and you can really go wrong!

hir kIAw kQw khwxIAw myry ipAwry siqgurU suxweIAw ]

har keeaa kuthaa kehaaneeaa maerae piaarae sathiguroo sunaaeeaa

The True Guru has preached the sermon of the Lord, O my dear beloved.

hir kI kQw ird mwih bsweI ]

har kee kuthaa ridh maahi busaaee

Enshrine the Lord's Sermon within your heart,

mn bWCq sgly Pl pweI ]2]

mun baashuth sugulae ful paaee

and you shall obtain all the desires of your mind. ||2||

har kee kuthaa hirudhai busaavai

He implants the Sermon of the Lord in his heart.

har keeaa kuthaa kehaaneeaa maerae piaarae sathiguroo sunaaeeaa

The True Guru has preached the sermon of the Lord, O my dear beloved.

Which clearly shows gurbani is the true katha, because it has no mistakes. Any human being can make mistakes when doing katha. Gurbani is the true katha!!

- Taksal emphasize on learning different languages so that students can read and understand sri dasam granth and other spiritual school of thoughts. I dont know about mehta but bhindrankalan this was heavily emphasized looking at the fact taksal has nirmale influence ie- before sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale jathedars. This is hardly found in akj, but looking at the efforts of bhai kulbir singh from tapoban, hopefully this will not be the case in future.

There are many gursikhs from the jatha who have knowlege of different languages. Again Taksal is a school for learming gurbani and akj has totally a different motives. The jatha was started by a group of gursikhs who were close and done day and night simran and gurbany abyyaiaas. Who performed lots of akand paaths and keeran progs. Who are strict on rehit.

- Taksal beleive in avtarvad (vahiguroo transcedents its attributes to avtars) in sikhi which aligns with gurbani sidhant as opposed to missionary who beleives guru ji was less than prophet cannot find perform miracles. However akj beleives that sri guru nanak dev ji was a standalone prophet rest are all fake and failed, sachkhand was open by sri guru nanak dev ji only keshadhari who have taken khanda da amrit is allowed there.

Yes Krishna, jesus and mohammed did all fail. They were all given limited power by good. They did'nt have the divine virtues and all had haumai!! Satguroo Nanak is the only giver of naam and was present throughout the 4 ages.

chaarae jaagae chuhu jugee punchaaein aapae hoaa

The four Gurus enlightened the four ages; the Lord Himself assumed the fifth form.

- Taksal beleive in importance of sants and taking updesh from them but akj dont feel need to take updesh from them.

The jatha has many gursikhs who are true sants, but they don't label them with the title sant. The reason is that gursikh lebelled with sant could get haumai, and fall heavily on this path which is very hard. Great gursikh like Bhai Swarn singh is a example of sant, who did a whole akhand paath on himself, but he still fell on this path. Also great gursikhs were called: Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Mani Singh, Baba Budha Jee and Bhai Gurdas Jee

Also the true sant label goes to guru granth sahib jee, and jathedar of AKJ are always change!!

- Taksal beleive in reciting the numbers of bani with sehaj so that slowly but surely jiv gets in ajapa jap mode, akj beleive in naam drita (madma, pasanti, para bani etc)- jap on shabad- Vahiguroo. Akj put major emphasizes on japing on naam- vahiguroo. However taksal beleive same avastha can be attained by mool mantar and other guru ghars mantars- Ikongkar(Bij mantar)/ Mala Mantar- Japji sahib, Parapoorbla mantar- Satnam

The jatha yes does believe is naam dhrid, which is blessed by punj pyare in the form of guru gobind singh jee. Other gursikhs like Sant Attar Singhh Jee were blessed with this technique as well. The jatha does believe as well as jaaping naam, gurbani abyiaas should be immence at the same time.

Akj and Taksal are very close, the gursikhs have a lot of pyaar towards each other and love each other. Bhai Randhir Singh and Baba Gurbachan Singh jee loved each other as well, so start comparing!!

I am posting this to show that the remarks namastang has made are not just perfomed by jatha, but also other gursikhs and jatha share the same throughts.

Sorry if i offended anybody.

VaahegurooJeeKhaalsaa, VaahegurooJeeKeeFaateh!!

thats it for now.

fantastic post

[THE WARRIOR]

Personally I believe people have a right to practice however they wish, however what I do have a problem with is when the mindset becomes so fanatical so obsessive that it ultimately becomes violent and people are subjected to that violence just because of their belief system. We only have to look around the world today and see how many conflicts there are just because of differing opinions and that one man is willing to kill and harm another just because of this. You only have to look at the sham in our Gurukars. Maharaj said that it was only poise and just to raise the sword when all other means of redressing wrongs have failed, these days conflict is the first thing and mindless violence, prejudice, racism runs rampant within the community.

its very sad

[Mehtab Singh]

I hear whispers "Its my way or the highway"

[N30S1NGH]

Kindly stick to the topic, this topic is not about akj beleive in keski, nor its about justification that maryada which is followed by akj is also followed by others, i was merely stating difference between taksal and akj, just because they are different doesnt make them wrong. people have taken slight offence to my post. i already got few pms offended by that, got pm calling me thug, which is strange label..lol.

Topic is about bhausaria mindset. If others want to counter post on my post which highlights akj and taksal kindly make another post, i ll clarify further.

[jss]

namastang veer,

my post wasn't directed at you about the harping in this thread...that was a general statement to everyone here, myself included....i think we all do this...we talk about the great mahapurkhs, but have applied very little of their wisdom in our own lives...if this didn't apply to you i'm sorry for offending you...i know it applies to myself....when i write these posts...it is as much to myself as it is for everyone else to see...