Gurudwara Discrimination Against Caste

[4givme4mysins]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I have always had the understanding that the Anand Karaj should only ever involve Amritdharie couples and this was always puraton maryada, does anyone else have any more information on this?

Gurfateh Ji

[JustME]

^^^^

Hanji a pahji i knw told me this and that over time, culture bagan to take over.......it makes sense realy..............culture has began to take over sikhi....Punjabi culture and this idea of "hey cos im born a sikh i AM a sikh" means people egos have over-ridden Guru Jee Hukam..............to call ur self a gursikh is saying that you are a "Guru Ka Sikh" u belong to the Guru and there is no such thing as "You" anymore its all about Guru and Waheguru..........but again......we only seem to want to apply this when its suits us.......we too scare to get married without Guru Jee's Blessings but we not scared enough to defy His Hukam when carrying out manmat................

Waheguru Help Us......................... :s

[Jaipal2004]

Thank you all for your comments.

I accept that I am not an Amritdhari Sikh but nevertheless I do go Gurdwara and lead a Sikh life to the best of my abilities. You all seem to be missing the point. I didn't say that she considers herself non-Sikh but merely explained she was from Ravidasia community.

How would you feel - going to the Gurdwara all your life, doing seva only to be told - I'm sorry: We can't marry you because you have omitted Kaur from your name? Is this what we've resorted to? No name means no wedding and therefore no Sikhi?

You are all jumping on your high-horse and claiming I know nothing about Sikhi but let me ask you this : Do the people who think adding Singh or Kaur makes you a better Sikh? Do those who bring politics in the Diwan Hall feel better for doing this? Do the Sikhs drinking, pubbing, clubbing and whatever else feel balanced because they've got Singh or Kaurin their name?

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[Saahiba]

Gurfatehji,

If the Gurdwara has a problem, then let your fiance' add the *kaur* to her name. One of the two have to understand. If the Gurudwara fails to understand the reason, then you all need to overlook this limitation!

Do wotevah.. but be happy!

Bhul chuk maaf karni!

[lowest of the low singhni]

You are all jumping on your high-horse and claiming I know nothing about Sikhi but let me ask you this : Do the people who think adding Singh or Kaur makes you a better Sikh? Do those who bring politics in the Diwan Hall feel better for doing this? Do the Sikhs drinking, pubbing, clubbing and whatever else feel balanced because they've got Singh or Kaurin their name?

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

Nobody has told you that you don't know anything about Sikhi. We all are on an exponential learning curve. The committee at the Gurdwara Sahib seems to be judging you based on your names, clearly that's wrong as this path is so much more than just having Kaur/Singh in your name. I don't know what the intentions of the committee are, either they are just being awkward or they sincerely want to maintain the beauty of an Anand Karaj. But we need to remember than an Anand Karaj is more than just a blessing and more than just a wedding. It's for those souls who are dedicating their entire lives to their Guru. Usually the first formal step on that path is taking Amrit - and Singh/Kaur is added to your name. If you and your wife are one of those fortunate ones then that's probably the best way to go - you have already told us so much about the seva you have both been honoured with at the Gurdwara Sahib so you appear to be going in the right direction.

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

[pyaraji]

This gurudwara is following AKAAL TAKHAT MARYADA!

PLEASE READ!!!!

http://www.sna.org.uk/cms/hukumnama/

[rupinder singh]

This gurudwara is following AKAAL TAKHAT MARYADA!

PLEASE READ!!!!

http://www.sna.org.uk/cms/hukumnama/

If this is a bona fide hukumnama from Akal Takht (which I don’t personally agree with but if the panthic elders have made this decision then it’s something we need to go with!) then I really hope for the sake of consistency the kaum ensure this is then implemented globally. Otherwise we will continuously look stupid when it comes to the rule applying in the Uk and not in say Punjab.

I really hope this “rule” has been thought through because all I see is a loophole in which brides and grooms can temporily adopt Singh and Kaur in their name in order to pass the Anand Karaj credentials and then enjoy their lavish champagne reception at the Hilton Hotel but not bothering to keep kes or give up the manmat lifestyle. So what do we end up with? More confusion, it’s bad enough people expressing what they think is being Sikh by waving a nishan sahib while dancing or smoking a <admin-profanity filter activated> in a bhangra gig. I would have more admiration for this Gurdwara committee if they had the balls to say something like grow your kes, give up alcohol, commit to seva at this Gurdwara or even go the whole hog and tell the couple to take amrit if they wish to have an Anand Karaj instead of pick and choose a rule like this.

Theres this saying “From our ancestors come our names, but from our virtues come our reputation”. Don’t niavely expect Sikhi to flourish just because more people are told to use Singh or Kaur in their name.

[pyaraji]

I think this hukamnama is more to stop interfaith marriages. Like when a hindu and a sikh get married, then they have marriage ceremonies from both religions. By forcing them both to have sikh names to have an anand karaj, I'm sure the hindu person might think twice before changing their name knowing it implies they are sikh. This is on top of the fact that both candidates for the anand karaj must declare they are sikh.

I think this rule is a good rule. It is a rule to make sure that only sikhs have an anand karaj. An alternative would be only amritdharis are allowed to have an anand karaj or other rules that rupinder singh was suggesting. But many people who have not taken amrit still consider themselves sikhs. This leads to the debate of what is a sikh? This rules skips this debate as any sikh will easily adopt the name Singh or Kaur and someone from another religion will most likely not.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the names 'Singh' and 'Kaur.' Why can't we make them apart of our official name? I don't think it is a stupid rule. I think its something that should be common sense to all sikhs to have Singh and Kaur apart of their official name.

[chatanga]

Jaipal has got a point methinks. having singh or kaur in your name jus to get married at a gurdwara? pc nonsense.

The ravidasia comminuty or chamars as they are better known, generally do not use the name singh or kaur. this is thier own stupidity, as they think they are being clever by purposley not using it, but they will be the ultimate losers.

i would look for another gurdwara in the WM. if you want, i know a gurdwara where it wont be a prob.

[Jaipal2004]

Thank you all for your comments. The Gurdwara have now turned round and said that they don't marry anybody outside of their own immediate vicinity. This is just one of several excuses we've been given by so called men-of-God because they're afraid to speak the truth.

When we've gone to the Gurdwara and spoken to the relevant people they have told us they are prepared to help or suggest things but on the phone they are quick to reject any notion of this.

I always thought SIkh's were people of honour and being brought up in a Sikh family since birth I question how this has come to happen? Surely this cannot be a good thing?

They are breaking people away from Sikhi and not bringing them closer.

Chatanga - drop me a PM if u are able to get a chance.

Jaipal has got a point methinks. having singh or kaur in your name jus to get married at a gurdwara? pc nonsense.

The ravidasia comminuty or chamars as they are better known, generally do not use the name singh or kaur. this is thier own stupidity, as they think they are being clever by purposley not using it, but they will be the ultimate losers.

i would look for another gurdwara in the WM. if you want, i know a gurdwara where it wont be a prob.