New Nirmala Website

[kam1825]

Modern day Nirmalas

Nirmalas some with kesh, some without dastaars,

Also with them are the jathedars of akaal takhat and patna. Also in the picture above is ragi Balbir Singh Ji

[N30S1NGH]

Regarding Rara Sahib today they still state they have come through Nirmala roots although they have taken a more Neo Sikh slant on heir teachings

you bought up a good point kam veer. I think the reason parcharaiks of rara sahib took more of neo sikh slant on their teachings is because of wider parchar in the mainstream sangat. I mean think about it, during parchar in the mainstream sangat, parcharak cannot really talk about multiple deep arths of khalsa and history. One have to remember mainstream sikhsangat is more or less influenced by tat khalsa singh sabha. so talking to them about historical granths, lineages, multiple deep arths of khalsa, historical events, diversity of bhek in sikhs/khalsa, diversity of rajo, sato, tamo gun diet/life style of khalsa all this gets bit confusing for mainstream sangat especially new jaigaso/abhlikhes. It's hard for begineers to shallow all that stuff, becomes very complicated. It's better to give new jaigaso/begineers adhatamic sikhi and tat sidhant of gurmat parchar by small doses as their surti rises from shariat to higher level.

[Bijla Singh]

But as far as rest of kakar maryada goes they are pardoned by sri guru gobind singh maharaj himself because of gaining vidya and doing parchar of sikhi all across india to all cultures, all dharams. Now i be asked for written sources- look into piara singh padam works on nirmale

I assume you have read Piara Singh Padam’s book and it would be much better if you could write some information from his book i.e. specifically stating that Guru Sahib made an exception to become Amritdharis. Provide a direct quote or maybe translate few paragraphs because many may not have this book. Guru Sahib Himself knew Sanskrit, Arabic and Persian and many Sikhs at the time were also affluent in these languages then why didn’t any one of them pass on this education? Besides, Sanskrit doesn’t hold much importance in Gurmat. Then what was the aim behind sending Sikhs to learn Sanskrit? Also, when exactly (what year) do you think Guru Sahib sent the Sikhs and when did they return? I have not been able to find much information on their role in Sikh history and no information about making kakkars exceptions. So your answers might help.

I checked Mahan Kosh and according to it Guru Sahib sent five Sikhs (all Amritdharis) to kanshi in disguise but it makes no mention of making kakkars exceptions. In fact, all Sikhs had “Singh” as last name. Also, when Nirmalas established their “Akhara” specific guidelines were set according to which taking Amrit and keeping Kakkars were made mandatory and langar bibek (AKJ type) was also practiced. How accurate is this information? Any reference would be great. Keep in mind that I am not discussing what Nirmalas do is right or wrong or whether exception to kakkars is allowed but asking for references.

[Aparadhee]

Issue of kakar- Sant isher singh ji rara sahib himself used to say in divans, so far there were few sehajdhari mahapursh (trimmed hair) in the panth, and they are parvan in the panth and in nirmal mandal as they belong to mastane category of bhramgyani sikhs,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

what is the view of taksal on the above,

how can this be parvan in the panth of guru gobind singh when guru sahib is clear on the issue of kesh. perhaps it was just a typo

[N30S1NGH]

But as far as rest of kakar maryada goes they are pardoned by sri guru gobind singh maharaj himself because of gaining vidya and doing parchar of sikhi all across india to all cultures, all dharams. Now i be asked for written sources- look into piara singh padam works on nirmale

I assume you have read Piara Singh Padam’s book and it would be much better if you could write some information from his book i.e. specifically stating that Guru Sahib made an exception to become Amritdharis. Provide a direct quote or maybe translate few paragraphs because many may not have this book. Guru Sahib Himself knew Sanskrit, Arabic and Persian and many Sikhs at the time were also affluent in these languages then why didn’t any one of them pass on this education? Besides, Sanskrit doesn’t hold much importance in Gurmat. Then what was the aim behind sending Sikhs to learn Sanskrit? Also, when exactly (what year) do you think Guru Sahib sent the Sikhs and when did they return? I have not been able to find much information on their role in Sikh history and no information about making kakkars exceptions. So your answers might help.

I checked Mahan Kosh and according to it Guru Sahib sent five Sikhs (all Amritdharis) to kanshi in disguise but it makes no mention of making kakkars exceptions. In fact, all Sikhs had “Singh” as last name. Also, when Nirmalas established their “Akhara” specific guidelines were set according to which taking Amrit and keeping Kakkars were made mandatory and langar bibek (AKJ type) was also practiced. How accurate is this information? Any reference would be great. Keep in mind that I am not discussing what Nirmalas do is right or wrong or whether exception to kakkars is allowed but asking for references.

I will post the references in next couple of days.

[kam1825]

taksal state that a gursikh is one who takes khande batte da amrit from the 5 beloved and always keeps their 5 kakkar as stated in gurbani da adab

[Matheen]

....... advait gurmat sant maharaj ji wrote is same stuff taught in nirmal mandals.

also same as Taksal, nihangs etc.

issue of kakar- Sant isher singh ji rara sahib himself used to say in divans, so far there were few sehajdhari mahapursh (trimmed hair) in the panth, and they are parvan in the panth.....

Which Deevan? I have heard them say that Khande Bhattey da Amrit is absolutely essential in the house of Guru Nanak, and hence the Rehat as well. Infact, non-Amritdharis weren't allowed to do Akhand Paath Sahib duties and this is still the case at Hapur and Dhablan. There are still a few Singhs around who were bhujangis under Sant Ji - the ones I've spoken to say the same thing - that Sant Ji was very very strict about Rehat and what was expected from the Singhs i.e. Amritvela etc. It's the same with Singhs from Rerusahib etc.

In all the deevans I have heard, I have never come across them saying that an exception was ever made for Kakkars - in fact they often say the opposite, that Singhs would rather die than go against Guru Ji's bachan. Have you heard their deevan "Khalsa Panth Da Saajna"?

i'm not disputing that there are a few 'mastane' who lose all attachment with the physical world but that's not relevant.

[valli singh]

Thank you to Veerji Kam 1825 and Namastang for sharing their learned light with those unknowing of the great contributions of Nirmalay to the Panth.

Though I am a sevadar of Dal Panth I have had the good fortune of sharing friendship with the Canadian representative of this Sampardai and so I have a general working knowledge of its history I have also been fortunate enough to meet the current Mahant of this Nirmala Akara--Sant Jagjit Singh (Lopon Wale) and have found him to be a completely God-intoxicated mystic who humbly considers himself to be a low servant of Guru Nanak Dev ji and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, he is doing alot for women's education, modernizing Punjab and spreading Gurbani in english.

Mista Singh and Jagmeet have both asked about Sant Darbara Singh and the cow sanctuary,

Sant Darbara Singh was a pooran brahmgyani who attained God-consciousness at a very young age, his Gurdev jokingly refered to him as 'Pandit ji' due to his wealth of knowledge, in time he completely built Kiratpur Sahib and re-built Takhtupura both of which lay in decay in the 50's and 60's.

I have seen many pictures of Sant ji wearing a turban, he did not cut his kesh, it was naturally short, but he did trim his beard because he was an all maste fakir like Baba Biram Das ji, who are we to question brahmgianis and their spontaneous ways of love with God? Sant Darbara Singh and Baba Biram Das both had full darshan of Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj despite being Sahajdhari, how can we ever know how much love they had with God?

As a good friend recently told me "there is no set maryada for Nirmalay, we should learn to appreciate the beautiful diversity in this sampardai where some are sant sipahis and some all maste fakirs".

Khalistan Zindabad has myopically parroted Baba Gurbachan Singh ji's katha that only those who wear white and keep the five k's are sampardais, Nihangs wear blue so are they not a sampardai when Mahan Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji himself was a full-fledged member of Buddha Dal?

Veerji how can you be so shortsighted when Sri Maan Baba Sundar Singh ji took gian from Udasi and Nirmala Mahapurukhs, even bathing Jawala Das Udasi with his own hands to get knowledge of God, Baba Sundar Singh ji never discriminated or compartmentalized others like this he was so thirsty for brahmgyan he went wherever it was to be gained, he learnt from Baba Ram ji Udasi, Baba Gulab Singh Nirmala and Sri Maan Baba Bishan Singh ji Nirmala who was his Gurdev! Baba Bishan Singh ji travelled to Badree Nath and learnt Sanskrit from Pandit Tara Singh for 9 years--this is from Damdami Taksals own website--who are we with our Khlasa Utopian self-righteousness to question the ways of brahmgianis when our own forefathers were more open-minded than us. Are these Nirmalay and Udasis good enough to instruct Sri Maan Baba Sunder Singh, but not good enough to be considered Sampardais when Guru Nanak Sahib and Guru Gobind Singh blessed both of these Sampardais? Nirmalay and Udasis pre-date the Khalsa and so they are exempt from keeping the 5 k's--though some of them choose to.

Guru Nanak Sahib ji himself gave the sadhu gaddi of the Udasi's to Baba Sri Chand ji, Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib ji sat his own son, Baba Gurditta on the Udasi gaddi, Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj left Anandpur Sahib in the charge of the Udasis, the Udasis have done more missionary work of spreading Sikhism all over India than the SGPC could do in 7 lifetimes, they even spread Guru Nanak's wisdom as far as Russia!!

All of these great Sampardais like Mastuana, Rara Sahib, Nanaksaar have Nirmalay origins, in purataan times Nihangs would get their whole education from Nirmalay and Udasin Akaras--though this changed with the coming of the British.

In light of the above, I humbly ask at the lotus feet of the sangat that anyone who has spoken in haste or made inflammatory comments, to please edit them.

[Matheen]

big5abi, how is this group linked to the Bhai Daya Singh Ji Samparda?

[kam1825]

Valli Singh you have a way of putting facts into words! Amazing, cant wait to see your written literature when you have finished it.