Taksal!

[jassa]

no veshnav maat is when someone says seeing me veggi god shall be happy ... but it has nothing to do with dayea ... then maskeen ji gave examples what is dayea in real sense ... seeing god in all is the key ... just not in goats ... and also simple food is very different from veggi food ... juban da savad also has a part to play ... as far as i think everyone would be agree with me the person who cant control his tastes even though he is veggi he is gaining nothing ... but there may be a person who has controled his taste is mukt even when eating jhatka ... we have many mahapursh oh such kind in our religion ... one is only person who is awarded the updahi of sant by khalsa panth ie baba nand singh ji ... i dont think we have more spirtual person then baba nand singh in our religion ...

daya, control over tastes, seeing god in all ... i say both persons are wrong who say i dont eat meat because bakra is alive or i eat meat because even plants are alive ...

i dont want to fight over the topic ... but we have our history and most of sikhs ate jhatka and calling them non spirtual doesnt hold any ground ...

taksal preaces something sants preach something how deep we want to dive it depends on us ....

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

i dont want to fight over the topic ... but we have our history and most of sikhs ate jhatka and calling them non spirtual doesnt hold any ground ...

Why are you under the illusion that Sikhs ate meat. People commonly believe that Guru Jis fauj had no other way but to resort eating meat to survive. We should never underestimate the almighty power of Guru Sahibs Fauj. Bhai Sahib do you honestly think Akal Purakh Ki Fauj was some unorganized and scattered militia who lived in desperation?. No way. Guru Sahib was a great general . The fauj was very much organized in which necessitites like langar was provided.

Guru Sahib would arrange different units. Some would be front line warriors, others would be in control of medical facilities, some would be responsible of langar, some would be incharge of monitering the radar, etc. When ever a stratergy was based on the upcoming war. Guru Sahib would set up these different units in the right place. For example if a warrior was wounded there would be a medical facility close by and no the Nihangs did not do drugs. They took medication from these facilities to heal the wounding or pain. Also, when Langar was needed there were speical sevadars to arrange these things. Shaheed Bhai Taru SIngh Ji is an example of one of these sevadars. Even Guru Sahibs baaj had an important function. I mean Guru Sahib did not have it for show or asthetic reasons. The Baaj would fly high in the sky and moniter the movements of Khalsa Fauj and/or the enemy and send signals to a special unit which would moniter the movements of the Baaj.

Guru Sahib was a military genius and beloved Father Guru he would never send his children unprepared or in a situation where they would break rehat. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji says never go near meat ( meaning do not eat meat) so why would Guru Sahib make it that his Sikhs break his Hukum. Guru Sahib has always provided for his children. For example, when the Sahibzadey were in jail it was next to impossible for someone to get through the guards and meet Sahibzadey and Mata Gujiri. Yet Guru Jis Gursevak "Bhai Moti Mehra" who through Guru jis bean kirpa snuck through the guards and gave Mata Ji and Sahibzadey milk. Like Shaheed Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Moti Mehra Singh ji also lost his life for his langar seva duty. We should always remember these brave Gursevaks who fullfilled their duty to the Khalsa Fauj even if it meant that they would lose their life. Personally I think its a great disrepect to these great shaheeds when we say that SInghs in the past were lost and in wilderness and they had to eat meat. This is an insult to Guru Sahib Jis fauj, and all the shaheeds who sacrificed thei life for their duties . We should never underestimate the power of Guru Sahib he will always provide Chardhi Kala Langar for his Gursikhs.

[chatanga]

did the the sikhs who abandoned Guruji at anandpur do so becos they had food but not the will to fight? or the other way round?

[jassa]

i dont want to fight over the topic ... but we have our history and most of sikhs ate jhatka and calling them non spirtual doesnt hold any ground ...

Why are you under the illusion that Sikhs ate meat. People commonly believe that Guru Jis fauj had no other way but to resort eating meat to survive. We should never underestimate the almighty power of Guru Sahibs Fauj. Bhai Sahib do you honestly think Akal Purakh Ki Fauj was some unorganized and scattered militia who lived in desperation?. No way. Guru Sahib was a great general . The fauj was very much organized in which necessitites like langar was provided.

Guru Sahib would arrange different units. Some would be front line warriors, others would be in control of medical facilities, some would be responsible of langar, some would be incharge of monitering the radar, etc. When ever a stratergy was based on the upcoming war. Guru Sahib would set up these different units in the right place. For example if a warrior was wounded there would be a medical facility close by and no the Nihangs did not do drugs. They took medication from these facilities to heal the wounding or pain. Also, when Langar was needed there were speical sevadars to arrange these things. Shaheed Bhai Taru SIngh Ji is an example of one of these sevadars. Even Guru Sahibs baaj had an important function. I mean Guru Sahib did not have it for show or asthetic reasons. The Baaj would fly high in the sky and moniter the movements of Khalsa Fauj and/or the enemy and send signals to a special unit which would moniter the movements of the Baaj.

Guru Sahib was a military genius and beloved Father Guru he would never send his children unprepared or in a situation where they would break rehat. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji says never go near meat ( meaning do not eat meat) so why would Guru Sahib make it that his Sikhs break his Hukum. Guru Sahib has always provided for his children. For example, when the Sahibzadey were in jail it was next to impossible for someone to get through the guards and meet Sahibzadey and Mata Gujiri. Yet Guru Jis Gursevak "Bhai Moti Mehra" who through Guru jis bean kirpa snuck through the guards and gave Mata Ji and Sahibzadey milk. Like Shaheed Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Moti Mehra Singh ji also lost his life for his langar seva duty. We should always remember these brave Gursevaks who fullfilled their duty to the Khalsa Fauj even if it meant that they would lose their life. Personally I think its a great disrepect to these great shaheeds when we say that SInghs in the past were lost and in wilderness and they had to eat meat. This is an insult to Guru Sahib Jis fauj, and all the shaheeds who sacrificed thei life for their duties . We should never underestimate the power of Guru Sahib he will always provide Chardhi Kala Langar for his Gursikhs.

Are you saying sikhs had never ate meat as per recorded in history ??? what had happened what could have happened and what should have happened are three different things ... cutting hair is a kurehat sikhs gave there head but didnt gave their hair ... if guru sahib had said eating meat is a kurehat as its being preached today sikhs would have preffered death due to hunger then doing shikar to eat ... and sikhism is a simple religion either something is allowed or its not ... there are no conditions if this condition arises then u can do this ... its a simple to the point religion ...

[Bijla Singh]

Guru Sahib never gave an instruction to eat meat. Word Jhatka is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib or in Dasam Granth. Not a single historic record states that Guru Sahib ate meat whether jhatka or anthing else. Puratan Singhs gave their lives fighting against those that attacked Darbar Sahib but what have jhatka eaters done? Sided with the invaders who attacked Darbar Sahib. If you want to eat meat using puratan Singhs then do it by doing shikaar and only when you are living in jungles and have nothing else to eat. Even then it won't become part of maryada but at least you will have historic justification.

[jassa]

lols when u dont have the answer u always tend to change the directions this time abuse nihangs taking in account 1984 its ego my friend nothing else ... when some one gets out of facts he tries to make it like what have u done ... :lol: ...

Word Jhatka is not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib or in Dasam Granth.

and there is a third thing known as rehat ...

Not a single historic record states that Guru Sahib ate meat whether jhatka or anthing else.

if i provide u some records here u would surely say they are fake even if those records are accepted by the panth ...

Puratan Singhs gave their lives fighting against those that attacked Darbar Sahib but what have jhatka eaters done? Sided with the invaders who attacked Darbar Sahib.

by the way 4 out of 5 times it was jhatka eaters fighting for harimander sahib ... and 1 time it was taksali singhs ... and what did custom rehat mareyada followers did other then writting on forums and doing parchar of there custom made cut paste mareyada ... the only thing are good at is writing articles and books no matter its missionaries or the opposite gang ... differnt mindset but 100 percent same approach ...

If you want to eat meat using puratan Singhs then do it by doing shikaar and only when you are living in jungles and have nothing else to eat.

some times u say they dont ate jhatka some times they did but in jungles ... first of all stick to one point ... and was the gaddi of gurdas nangal a jungle where sikhs had to eat even there horses for survival ... as per you they must have made there horses run in a jungle then follow them and do the shikar instead of doing jhatka straight away ...

Even then it won't become part of maryada but at least you will have historic justification.

there is a place on this earth known as akal takth sahib who decides whats mareyada ... some sikhs say we are sikhs of dal we follow budhadal mareyada which is different from panthic mareyada thats why we dont follow akal takth sahibs mareyada ... some claim to follow taksali mareyada and so on atleast they are truthful to themselves ... what about those who call themself to be under the command of akal takth sahib and backstab its mareyada ...

[Bijla Singh]

lols when u dont have the answer u always tend to change the directions this time abuse nihangs taking in account 1984 its ego my friend nothing else ... when some one gets out of facts he tries to make it like what have u done ... :lol: ...

Truth is truth. If you want to rely on history then face it like a man and accept the fact that most nihungs did nothing like puratan singhs. Why use puratan singhs to satisfy your taste when we should be looking at their jeevans and kurbani.

and there is a third thing known as rehat ...

Gurbani does not advocate eating meat. Neither do Vaars. Or are you insinuating that rehat doesn't exist in Gurbani/Vaars? Because it does.

if i provide u some records here u would surely say they are fake even if those records are accepted by the panth ...

We can do veechar on some sakhis you want to use to prove your point. Let's bring 'em forward. Keep in mind that I agree that Singhs ate meat in 18^th century but that doesn't justify eating meat is accepted in Gurbani. Gurbani approval is different than history approval. If you believe Guru Sahib always ate jhatka surely bring out your facts.

by the way 4 out of 5 times it was jhatka eaters fighting for harimander sahib ... and 1 time it was taksali singhs ...

You will have to show me some credible evidence that Baba Deep Singh, Baba Gurbakash Singh, Bhai Sukha Singh and Bhai Mehtab Singh ate jhatka. Also was jhatka served at Gurmattas at Akal Takhat? How often did Bhai Mani Singh prepare jhatka at Darbar Sahib?

and what did custom rehat mareyada followers did other then writting on forums and doing parchar of there custom made cut paste mareyada ... the only thing are good at is writing articles and books no matter its missionaries or the opposite gang ... differnt mindset but 100 percent same approach ...

I don't know how this relates to the topic but if you are accusing me of following "custom" maryada then you are wrong. I follow maryada given to me by Panj Pyare. Nihungs don't follow Akal Takhat maryada either. Aren't they "custom maryada followers"?

some times u say they dont ate jhatka some times they did but in jungles ... first of all stick to one point ... and was the gaddi of gurdas nangal a jungle where sikhs had to eat even there horses for survival ... as per you they must have made there horses run in a jungle then follow them and do the shikar instead of doing jhatka straight away ...

I never wrote that puratan Singhs never ate meat. Some may have but no one can prove that every single one did or it was part of the rehat. It is meat eaters like yourself who say that Singhs lived in jungle, did hunting and then ate meat. This is why I made this point. They may have eaten it for their survival which slowly became part of their regular lifestyle but it doesn't make it part of rehat. If you want to mimic puratan Singhs then at least be up to their level of jeevan.

there is a place on this earth known as akal takth sahib who decides whats mareyada….what about those who call themself to be under the command of akal takth sahib and backstab its mareyada ...

The current maryada doesn't state that only jhatka is accepted. I believe 'kutha' refers to butchered meat not halal. Do Nihungs follow the Akal Takhat maryada fully? No. A Sikh is supposed to be faithful to Akal Takhat not to taksal or dal. Call me whatever you want. I am not bothered by it and it certainly doesn't prove you right.

History cannot be justified when against Gurbani/Vaars. This forum doesn't allow discussion/debate on meat. So I won't post much on whether to eat meat or not but I would like you to start a new topic and bring out the sakhis which you think prove Guru Sahib ate meat. We can discuss those from Gurmat point of view.

[khalsa s1ngh]

here you go mr bilja singh, from bhai gurdaas jis vara

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6057

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

i dont want to fight over the topic ... but we have our history and most of sikhs ate jhatka and calling them non spirtual doesnt hold any ground ...

Why are you under the illusion that Sikhs ate meat. People commonly believe that Guru Jis fauj had no other way but to resort eating meat to survive. We should never underestimate the almighty power of Guru Sahibs Fauj. Bhai Sahib do you honestly think Akal Purakh Ki Fauj was some unorganized and scattered militia who lived in desperation?. No way. Guru Sahib was a great general . The fauj was very much organized in which necessitites like langar was provided.

Guru Sahib would arrange different units. Some would be front line warriors, others would be in control of medical facilities, some would be responsible of langar, some would be incharge of monitering the radar, etc. When ever a stratergy was based on the upcoming war. Guru Sahib would set up these different units in the right place. For example if a warrior was wounded there would be a medical facility close by and no the Nihangs did not do drugs. They took medication from these facilities to heal the wounding or pain. Also, when Langar was needed there were speical sevadars to arrange these things. Shaheed Bhai Taru SIngh Ji is an example of one of these sevadars. Even Guru Sahibs baaj had an important function. I mean Guru Sahib did not have it for show or asthetic reasons. The Baaj would fly high in the sky and moniter the movements of Khalsa Fauj and/or the enemy and send signals to a special unit which would moniter the movements of the Baaj.

Guru Sahib was a military genius and beloved Father Guru he would never send his children unprepared or in a situation where they would break rehat. Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji says never go near meat ( meaning do not eat meat) so why would Guru Sahib make it that his Sikhs break his Hukum. Guru Sahib has always provided for his children. For example, when the Sahibzadey were in jail it was next to impossible for someone to get through the guards and meet Sahibzadey and Mata Gujiri. Yet Guru Jis Gursevak "Bhai Moti Mehra" who through Guru jis bean kirpa snuck through the guards and gave Mata Ji and Sahibzadey milk. Like Shaheed Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Moti Mehra Singh ji also lost his life for his langar seva duty. We should always remember these brave Gursevaks who fullfilled their duty to the Khalsa Fauj even if it meant that they would lose their life. Personally I think its a great disrepect to these great shaheeds when we say that SInghs in the past were lost and in wilderness and they had to eat meat. This is an insult to Guru Sahib Jis fauj, and all the shaheeds who sacrificed thei life for their duties . We should never underestimate the power of Guru Sahib he will always provide Chardhi Kala Langar for his Gursikhs.

Are you saying sikhs had never ate meat as per recorded in history ??? what had happened what could have happened and what should have happened are three different things ... cutting hair is a kurehat sikhs gave there head but didnt gave their hair ... if guru sahib had said eating meat is a kurehat as its being preached today sikhs would have preffered death due to hunger then doing shikar to eat ... and sikhism is a simple religion either something is allowed or its not ... there are no conditions if this condition arises then u can do this ... its a simple to the point religion ...

The only "SIkhs" whoever ate meat are the weaklings from the 20th and 21st century. Are you underestimating the might of the Khalsa Fauj. You think they were able to take on armies that were tens times there size just because of their marital skills. The Singhs had great organizational skills they were trainned in warfare and stratergie. They were the most competent Amry in India thats why they defeated the Mughals. What makes you think they were some Vagabonds wondering in the forest looking and hunting for food. You should have faith in Guru Sahibs power. Guru Sahib have always given them resources and they have always put them to use. Guru Sahib will give us resources when we decide to give up meat and follow rehat. Eating meat is a Kurheit especially since it says not to eat meat in Gurbani. In addition, Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji has said not to eat meat.

You stated

and sikhism is a simple religion either something is allowed or its not ... there are no conditions if this condition arises then u can do this ... its a simple to the point religion ...

This is exactly may point Guru Sahib says not to eat meat . there is no situation or condition where a Gursikh can eat meat. Only the historians influenced by European Historians have mentioned SIkhs were in desperation and they needed to eat meat just so they can fill in the gaps and make their stories seem more logical to the cynical critic. Does who have faith believe that Guru Ji always made sure the Sikhs would never break his Hukum of eating meat to survive.

[SunSingh]

I think it's pretty clear that Sikhs in certain time periods ate meat. That being said, it is not an optimal practice for someone on this marg, which is why most sants are so deadset against it. In fact, it is detrimental. A vegetarian diet that lacks vegetables (ie. what sooooooooo many eat) is also detrimental. But in the latter case they do not get the bad karm that eating meat brings. Also, meat is considered tamsic, and hence worse than any rajjsic non-maass food. Although rajsic foods are also meant to be limited.

Mahan scholar and bhramgiani Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Bhindrenwale's position was that Sikhs are not allowed to eat meat at all, unless they have absolutely no choice in which case they can do chatka with their own sword and eat that.