Hitting Children

[TejiKaur]

I cannot believe that somone would stoop so low as to have a personal swipe at ford capri.

It is none or your business whether Ford Capri has a sister or not. And how can you be so rude as to imply that perhaps he comes from a disfunctional family. Have you no Respect???

Why are you disrespecting a fellow Sikh's family or background?

I think you should apologise, no matter whether you agree or disagree with his views, I have never read a post where he has directly disrepected anybody's family. Even when you made that comment Ford Capri did not stoop so low as to disresepct your family.

You talk about Jeevans, maybe you should have a look at your own and stop putting down other peoples families.

I hope Maharaj forgives the other people for the comments that were made about Panjabi parents.

Panjabi parents are better than Goreh parents, who have sex with their children and end up being fathers to their grandchildren!

How can you label a whole Country as being abusers and child beaters?

My parents are Panjabi, are you disrespecting them as well?

Who has gave the most Kurbania for the Panth...Panjabi born people.

Where is our Phind (Anandpur Sahib)...Panjab.

Where do most of these people with amazing Jeevans come from...Panjab.

I cannot think of one British born, Canadian born or American born Sikh who has gave their live for the Panth. Not all the Shaheeds were Gursikhs, some actually were Panjabi.

I feel ashamed to be apart of a community, British Born Sikh's, who are so hell bent on disrespecting their parents and ancestors...shame on you!

I agree with some of the earlier comments made by Bhai Harjeet Singh, nonetheless, I think it is unfair to disrespect people, that when you turn up empty handed at their doorstep, they will welcome you with open arms and feed you with nothing but pure love...that is the Panjabi culture.

The reason, I feel, ford capri brings up issues like these is because he feels the pain that many of us feel when we see our Panth going down the way it is.

He perhaps does not use Gurbani or complexed theories to back up his thoughts but that is the way Vaheguru created him. I applaud anyone who actually takes out their time to think of ways that can improve the sorry state we are in. It is better than ignoring what is happening out in the real world.

And as for Jeevans, anyone who has stayed with Mahapurakh or Sants will understand that it is their unconditional love that can bring you closer to Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. However, mess about or disprespect them and you will get a stern SLAP.

This is not a form of abuse, but a form of discipline. It would be for our benefit.

This is what I think Ford Capri is getting at. Discipline can make a world of difference, especially in Kalyug.

Gurufateh g

isnt saying that about goreh also putting down a whole group or culture

smell some hpocrisy there

anyways this thread does seem weird

now God blessed me wid a great father'

we r g=four sisters and our rents dont beat us

my dad lets us talk to guys

my dad lets us talk about guys wid him as does my mom

neither me or my sisters would ever run away with a guy in our dreams and we always have our parents guiding us

the kid wid the poppers did not need to b slapped

he was having a fun time

thats so ridicoulous

it doesnt hurt anyone

and thats what kids do they play

aj kal in my friends homes i see that parents give them a hatred for sikhi

they tell the munda just to wear a pagh

the munda becomes his mothers sikh per say

matlab just to show off

i know so many guys my age and older who wear full paghs or patkay and cant name the 10 Gurus

as per girls

there rules r

stay in the house

dont talk to anyone

cook roti

clean

be seen not heard

study

behave withour expecting a reward even tho ur bro gets one

parents need to teach their children and trust them not beat them

the only time beating is okay is if ur kids about to jump off a cliff

go to any gurudwara and u will see little kids running around

they r such angels and i believe every child deserves the age to b foolish

teens deserve to have their parents support and learn from their expiriences as well as have a good time

girls deserve the status that guru ji gave us

[+Singh_is_King+]

Dont be naive and think that just because you 'explain' everything and bring your kids up in a Gursikh background that you wont have to discipline them. This belief is so naive that it makes me laugh.

Kids will be kids and you will have to discipline them somehow. Some kind of sanction system will be necessary.

Now, if you dont hit them, you will have to use other methods which I think are potentially more psychologically harmful, eg, send them to bed without any supper, take thier video games and toys off them, stop talking to them for a few days, exclude them from family events and 'grounding them' for a month, and shouting at them. I like to call these 'psychological beatings'

In summary, bringing up kids requires a multi-faceted approach. Clearly, the best way is to instill and inspire them with Sikhi values so that they choose not to be badly behaved. However, for the occassions that they are badly behaved, you will need a sanction system in place. Sometimes you will use the 'psychological beatings' that I mentioned above, and other times you will need to give them a quick clip round the ear.

Smacking for discipline and hardcore child abuse are two completely different things. Dont confuse and muddle the two up as some of you guys are doing.

[rupinder singh]

How perfect is our own Sikhi before we start spanking the discipline into kids? When you become parents, let’s see how perfect Sikhs your children turn out, even though you think a ‘clip around the ear’ will sort them out.

I read these self important postings from people justifying their own ideology and blaming their own shortcomings on the practices/performances of others. Are you now a perfect Gursikh because your mum and dad spanked your bottom everytime you faltered?

Life is not so simple and dharmic discipline isn’t always installed through 'psychological beatings'.

[+Singh_is_King+]

rupinder,

I am curious to know what shortcomings you think I have and what ideology you think I am trying to portray.

I would say that I havent turned out badly as a person. As an amritdhari Sikh doing well in his career and involved in sewa, I can safely say maharaj has been kind to me.

I am also very grateful to my parents who brought me up as a Gursikh and were firm in their discipline and brought me up to be a decent (though not perfect) human being.

You keep refering to spanking as being some kind of karmic punishment that is only allowed to be administered by some great perfect being. In actual fact, it is just a natural part of life where parents discipline their children, coaching and guiding them, using different methods, with a view to making them into good human beings.

With respect, you need to get your head out of the karmic clouds and come back down to planet Earth where there are real issues which need real solutions

[rupinder singh]

rupinder,

I am curious to know what shortcomings you think I have and what ideology you think I am trying to portray.

I would say that I havent turned out badly as a person. As an amritdhari Sikh doing well in his career and involved in sewa, I can safely say maharaj has been kind to me.

I am also very grateful to my parents who brought me up as a Gursikh and were firm in their discipline and brought me up to be a decent (though not perfect) human being.

You keep refering to spanking as being some kind of karmic punishment that is only allowed to be administered by some great perfect being. In actual fact, it is just a natural part of life where parents discipline their children, coaching and guiding them, using different methods, with a view to making them into good human beings.

With respect, you need to get your head out of the karmic clouds and come back down to planet Earth where there are real issues which need real solutions

I suppose the problem is that we all think we've turned out OK!!

[Guest fordcapri]

I cannot believe that somone would stoop so low as to have a personal swipe at ford capri.

It is none or your business whether Ford Capri has a sister or not. And how can you be so rude as to imply that perhaps he comes from a disfunctional family. Have you no Respect???

Why are you disrespecting a fellow Sikh's family or background?

They're just showing their level, these people dont apply Scripture, logic or science in their way of thinking.

[Jangal Da]

Smacking of children should be outlawed.

Positive and desirable behaviours can be put into place by:

1. Providing good role models - A family unit where working for a living and honest earning is valued.

2. Praise of good behaviours and ignoring bad behaviours, or withdrawing of treats to disencourage bad behaviour..

3. Time out is effective in younger children (c. aged 4-10y) where they can be left to reflect on behaviour for 2-10mins (age dependant). They should be placed in a safe environment eg bedroom. The effect of removal from a social situation does not just calm all down, but at that age most children crave the social attention from nearest and dearest and therefore it is a powerful tool.

4. Have firm rules and boundaries that are laid down for the child and fairly set for them.

5. Start this discipline early, but know the normality of child development and make allowances eg the screaming toddler having a tantrum (ignore him), the stroppy teenager wanting to challenge your every move (start to give them proper responsibilities and make yourself available if things are too much that they need to off-load).

Beating a child will only damage their self esteem and make them resentful. It is very easy to fall into the trap of....."well, it never did me any harm, blah blah balh..." But there is a pile of evidence from child psychology that the above techniques work far better than corprally punitive ones.

I am currently doing a post as a community paediatrician and deal with the so called reject-kids from the roughest parts of town. Originally I used to think that a good thapar would polish these lads up to the mark, but I learnt and witnessed that this mentality was wrong. Working alongside child psychiatrists and educational psychologists, I supported parents through a more positive way of bringing up their devil's child and was astonished at the results - these are long term results and in many cases mean that the child is accepted back into mainstream education, avoids the ASBOs and has a chance of growing up to get and hold down a job, rather than running amock and ending up in prison.

Child beating, or the so called odd light smack (whatever that is) is just WRONG. Just like wife-beating is now unacceptable in most quarters, whereas a previously it was thought a regular battering of the wife was neccessary to keep her in order. Bottom line is that it is a form of child-abuse and the sooner that we specify that within law, the better.

I wonder how many of the posters in this column are actually parents themselves?

[HSD*^]

Hitting should be the very very last resort. Personally i don't think any child needs to be hit. But it is the adults. The sikhs as mentioned in a previous post, go out to bars, in the Guru's roop, misrepresenting Sikhi and our Guru's, these are the kind of people that need to be hit. Seriously how dare anyone take The Guru's roop for granted. If i ever saw an amritdhari going into a club of somesort, i would pull out their own kirpan and stab them with it! aaah that makes me mad hearing about stuff like that. Children are innocent and still learning, but adults, they are the ones who need to be tought a lesson. Forget hitting the children man, if your going to punish some punish the ones, that know the diffference between right and wrong, yet they still choose to do wrong.

exactly, hit the adults. i'll get my cricket bat...........

[Guest fordcapri]

you need method order and control.

[virk30]

if you use hitting and the only way to disipline kids they'll find way's to hide things from their parants, believe me i know everyone in my age group got hit and all they learned to do was how to hide the bad stuff from parants

have open communication with both son's and daughters teach them a strong work ethic good morals build up their self esteem and disipline them as in take away things from them and i think sometimes its ok to smack the son just to make him a man so he doesn't grow up as a cry baby.

If you want to talk about disiplining daughters their our classes now in vancouver to help young punjabi and other indo canadian girls build up their self esteem, and one thing that needs to be done is we need to destroy this cultural thinking of how the boy is favoured over the girl the boy is raised and given everything and the girl is a burden on the family cause this destroy's a girls self esteem, making her feel like a prisoner makes them rebel, what parants need to do is build their daughters self esteem teach them good morals have open communication with them and trust them and

and if a girl has a close relationship with her parants she isn't going to do anything that could risk shaming her parants, she'll think about her parants first

now most these girls who drink go to party after party jumping from guy to guy and sleeping with different men running away from home doing drugs usually have low self esteem and don't have the best relationship with their family's