Sikhs And Unity In The Uk

[+Singh_is_King+]

maybe we should just forget all this fighting business.

make love not war

[Traveller]

In regards to why arent we as we were before

Isn't the issue that people are referring to sikhs when they were in an Army?

And i'm sure that this army of sikhs was fighting a battle against another army... i.e. warfare todays society is not the same situation- yes sikhs are fighting battles, but not on borderlines vs. armies- if that happened, i'd like to think Sikhs would form an actual army but thats another issue altogether.

For example, look at North Korea, leading the whole world in a song and dance- people could say-I rmember the days when the Great British Army would have told them whats what..... its just, they're totally different situation from localised bullying and segregation.

This is not the Sikh Army for freedome vs. Muslim invaders situation, unless it was mistaken.

Its easy to say...us Sikhs havent got this, or that anymore......but we're all people, and this is an issue between one society vs. another- hence its a social, local issue.

its similar to acts of terrorism...the british ARMY isn't going to stop any localised problems..

this issue can then be understood as one which could happen to anyone whilst growing up. In my area I see emos getting pushed around by chavs... the issue isnt the emo gene pool as such, lol, the issue is that people have different objectives...

Some chavs ar out to cause trouble, the emos happen to want to be where the chavs are, and the chavs have more numbers...so now its a battle of numbers, braun, or just simply, not being in the way of no-gooders....

A person, who is confident in their own views, is rational and is not a closed book will meet people, black, white, sikh and non-sikh and will build up a rapport- those people will stand by that person, not bad mouth them- they are called friends.

If you have trouble making friends- then that might be the issue rather than anything else.

All people, in my view, should seek to live as healthy individuals, in sprit, mind and body and seek to attain their highest. However, some people are naturally weedy, some people are naturally ogreish in action- thats society...we can't go around selecting ideal sikhs to breed the next generation....Once you have shown yourself as a person to be respected, you rarely find issues. Trust me, I've lived in NF and BNP areas and have has bands of NF smashing windows- and it stopped nearly completely.

SO HERES MY PIECE:

If the sikhs in your area are getting bashed around and are naturally too weedy- then they need to communicate with the right groups of people to make sure they are kept out of harm and can work on getting themselves to somewhere they want to be. I.e. they need to find the groups that are already active and try to get in with them, or need to just stay low, get their education n live a better life somewhere where they can be happy.

If they want to be where they are, then they either need to 'be the better person' and take the abuse, and continue to look out for others, or they need to make a physical stand against opression....doesnt neccessarily mean a band of sikhs- there are a lot of non-sikhs who will defend their friends. For this, they need to also get in with the right crowds and get physically strong- eat your roti, do your exercises- stuck for ideas? try youtube!

Its never good to intigate a battle, but self defence is another matter.

As for sikhs in general, and I'm guessing sikhs as in anyone who considers themselves a sikh (not an SGPC defined sikh)...it all comes from a comination of things:

1) Family influence - does your family inspire or lead you to be fit strong and learn self defence

2) Social influence - are your mates into being strong etc. and stick up for others? (your mates might be strong- but also might be the ones causing fights)

3) Temple influence - does your temple teach that a sikh should make friends in the society around them, be strong, safe, righteous etc. also do they put on classes or sessions?

4) Personal goals - do you want to be stronger? and hence you go to the gym off your own bat?

I beleive that if through one of those influences every sikh felt inspired to become stronger and healthier, then we'd not only be known for standing up for freedom- but we wouldn't be portrayed as the fat, stupid joker in society.

When people segregate from the rest of society they make theirselves a target.... the more groups of anything we have, the more borders and definitions....the more rivalries and fights....

Tell the sikhs in your area to sort their lives out, get to the gym, speak to the right people and get some respect. At the end of the day if a 5ft 4 gursikh is on the way home n gets beaten up by 10 chavs with a baseball bat...no one, in such a circumstance could relate that to Sikhs not being warriors..... thats a bad area, a gursikh not having people with him, and a gursikh not having people with him walking through a bad area.... so somethings bound to happen...

If its 10 vs. 10 and the sikhs are getting pummelled...then yeah, those Sikhs need to get their acts together, take what they have to, and if things get bad- defend what they have to, after exhasting all non-violent means.

My opinion is that if sikhs were respected, mixed with the right people and strong in mind and in body, the situation would never arise in teh first place.

[AK47 JATHA LION]

Intresting. You mentioned blacks, muslims, goreh attacking sikhs. I agree.

But i think we should also add Sikh to that list.

Alot of sikhs are attacking sikhs nowadays. We're our all fighting each other.

It takes the smallest of thing to make a sikh turn on a sikh in todays age.

The day we stop fighting ourselves is the day we will start being a Real Force to be reckonned with.

Personally, I dont see that day coming in our lifetimes.

Look at sikhs, the things they arguing over which divide them.

I can take just a few examples off the top of my head to prove my point:

-1 singh says he's taken amrit from one organisation and another singh says he's taken amrit from another. since when did amrit belong to any organisation? and sikhs say it loud with so much pride that they belong to a certain jathebandi.

Was the gurus gift of being a simple sikh not enough?

-sikhs are arguing and fighting over whether or not the Sant Bhindranwalle is shaheed or not. This argument can go on till the oceans dry up but we will still have opinions on both sides.

His physical body is not important but his MESSAGE is.

-Now we're on to arguing about if the hoody should have "shaheed" written on it or not. sikhs are willing to have fights with sikhs over hoodies..over hoodies i say again.

Sant bhindranwalle put much effort into asking sikhs to unite. But we repay his legacy by arguing over the wording on a piece of cotton.

-I heard 1 amritdhari singh talking to another once about not accepting water in the gurdwara from a monnah sewadar. He refused it.

Hey im no scholar, but I thought sewa was sewa, the same sewa that Guru nanak emphasised that all humans should do to help one another. Yet today in the Gurdwara, the water offered by a monna sewadar is apprently not as clean as the water offered by a Amritdhari. maybe we can get signs put up about which sewa should be designated to whom. The same singh would not object to his shoes being polished in the jhora gharr by the monna sewadar, so why reject his water?

Is he worthy enough to clean his shoes but not worthy enough to give him water in the Gurghar? And we wonder why sikhs cannot unite?

-The other day there was a small debate between a few sikhs about the length of a Kacherra.

Size, length ect.

why are sikhs fighting and arguing over a kacherra?? just worry about your own kacherra. Some may find it funny, but i find it quite appauling.

A gurdwara was Burnt down and many saroops perished, we need to find the culprits, yet some

like to argue over a kacherra.

-Sikhs are questioning sikhs nowadays alot. some people argue whether or not the culprits should pay with their lives or be punished with imprisonment through the british justice system.

Why are we even talking about that? this question would not of been asked a 100 years back.

There should not be even the smallest grain of doubt in our minds that the culprits head should meet the end of a sword.

-Alot of fighting takes place because of the baba culture. why are people paying more respect to some babeh than their own guru?

If there is a mahatma or sant or baba fair enough. Say Fateh to him with prem. But dont go running blindly touching their feet. Do not bow down to non other but the guru.

Sikhs need to stop fighting with themselves. we're our own biggest enemy if we do not stop fighting ourselves. Then add all the non sikhs who are attacking us to that. Its quite a sad state of affairs.

Thats my thoughts on the UNITY issue.

There is a need for Sikh Unity now more than there ever was. Especially in the UK considering how frequently sikhs are attacked. Lets stop bickering over small things and get with the programme.

Time for Unity?

[HSD*^]

maybe we should just forget all this fighting business.

make love not war

what happened to you? or are you advertising for your 'school of love: singh is king's personal guide to the opposite sex' lol?

to traveller: we all have our ways of dealing with problems. if you havent noticed, things are getting uglier here. we have no idea how bad it could get, so its best to be prepared for the absolute worst. if we solve some of our other problems along the way, its a bonus. as for the genes of emos, all i can say is that emo isnt a religion and nation that has lasted for over 300 years. mind you the attitude of many of the sikh youth today is similar to the emos.

[+Singh_is_King+]

Geeza. all this fighting and violence has left me lonely and needing of love.

I have now dedicated my life to finding it...

[+Singh_is_King+]

Something for guys who want info on krav maga course in nottingham (from a pM query):

vjkkvjkf

Could you tell or give me details of the krav marga you had going in nottingham.

like price, wot did you learn etc etc

was thinking of did that 10 week thing at a gurdwara in birmingham

vjkk vjkf

Krav maga and fast defence course covered how to deal with verbal threats, protecting your personal space using a 'fence', basic and power ful strikes, defence against gangs, guns, knives and bats and practice against fully padded attackers.

An additional short course for women and kids was added on after the inital 10 week course. With Maharaj's kirpa, we were able to fund the course using local government grants through SCYS Nottingham. The whole thing cost 3.5 K

Unfortunately in order to get top quality instruction, you have to pay alot of money. If we didnt have a grant we would have had to ask participants to pay their own fees. There were twenty male participants for the initial 10 week course, all Singhs and over 16.

Everyone enjoyed it and were much more capable of being able to defend themselves after the course.

The guy that taught the course is called David Stevens from krav maga nottingham: http://www.kravmaga-nottingham.co.uk/

There are some great krav maga and Fast defence instructors in Birmingham. One of the best is a guy called Graham from solihul who helped with the Nottingham courses: http://www.solihullselfdefence.co.uk/

One of the best ways to get Sikhs learning this en masse, is to get Sikhs who already experienced in martial arts to attend the courses and then train as instructors which can be done relatively quickly, but at some personal financial investment. For example, there are some krav maga and fast defence courses for experienced martial artists which last for a week or so and qualify you to teach it. This sounds like a load of rubbish but actually happens quite commonly when instructors travel all over the world and introduce combatives and self defence to police forces and the military etc. Have a look on the net, you will see that there are loads of these kinds of courses available.

Subsequently, if you had Singhs trained up in it, they could teach it en masse at a lower price or for sewa.

The other thing you can do is to get in touch with SCYS Nottingham and find out more about the course, the local government grant that funded it and how to apply for it.

I will post this on the main board in case other people are also interested.

vjkk vjkf

[caveman]

SINGH IS KING!

how ive missed your posts

[roop33]

VJKK VJKF

Dear Veerji,

I have heard from a friend of mine that there will be a basic 6-week introductory course starting at Stratford Rd Gurdwara Birmingham in FAST combatives soon. I'll get the instructor details for you.

I will keep you posted as soon as I have some more details.

VJKK VJKF

[Neehang]

People can train all they want but if the heart aint there to fight theres no point.

You cant teach how to have courage and the will to fight, its something your born with.

The problem with our people is we are too scared to fight, we are afraid of retaliation and scared of jail and because of this fear a lot of our people wont fight.

[+Singh_is_King+]

Neehang bhaji,

I dont agree with your point about people having courage and being born to fight. If that was the case, why do we take amrit and transform ourselves from being giddars to sheres? What about the sparrow fighting the hawk? I thought that was the whole point of becoming a Khalsa.

There are lots of examples of people being who are weak and get bullied who later become great fighters.

I also dont think that 'fear' of retaliation, jail and getting hurt are necessarily bad things.

I quote Sun Tzu on this one:

'The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.'

- Sun Tzu, the Art of War

Basically, violence is a bad thing. It is a painful, bitter and costly road to follow and both sides lose out in one way or another. Anyone who chooses to embark on this road must make all the mental calculations beforehand. What can they afford to lose? What is at stake? How far are they willing to go?

That being said, we should not be pussys and fail to act when it is the right thing to do.