Premarital Sex

[YoungLady]

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

Dear PanJi Shadow,

Thank you for your message... maybe I expressed myself wrongly, but he is not my boyfriend. I firstly wanted to think about all this stuff connected to it, before doing anything. :happy:

Yes you are right, I did not take amrit. My parents brought me up like: You must believe GOD (Which I do, absolutely), but all other things will go along, eating meat, egg, getting your hair cut and all that stuff.

Do you know a female Saint? I would be grateful to read about her, do you have any internet link?

Thank you all very much,

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

[guptveer1469]

Do you know a female Saint? I would be grateful to read about her, do you have any internet link?

Female Saint Ganika. She used to be a prostitute, but realised Waheguru and became a BrahmGyani. Her example is given in Gurbani.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=632&english=t&id=27559#l27559

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=830&english=t&id=35383#l35383

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=874&english=t&id=37322#l37322

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=874&english=t&id=37322#l37322

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1192&english=t&id=51465#l51465

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1400&english=t&id=59544#l59544

http://www.sikhlionz.com/Sooya-Paraavat-Ganika-Taree-Salvation-of-a-Prostitute.htm

WJKK WJKF

[sonearyetSOfar]

There's this bibi from germany, who is a white bibi, she became a sighni, speaks punjabi perfectly and does katha. she's really outgoing, but quite strong in her views.

anyway, this below is after you're married, let alone before

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੧ ॥

सिरीरागु महला ५ घरु १ ॥

Sirīrāg mėhlā 5 gẖar 1.

Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl, First House:

ਕਿਆ ॥

किआ तू रता देखि कै पुत्र कलत्र सीगार ॥

Ki▫ā ṯū raṯā ḏekẖ kai puṯar kalṯar sīgār.

Why are you so thrilled by the sight of your son and your beautifully decorated wife?

ਰਸ ॥

रस भोगहि खुसीआ करहि माणहि रंग अपार ॥

Ras bẖogėh kẖusī▫ā karahi māṇėh rang apār.

You enjoy tasty delicacies, you have lots of fun, and you indulge in endless pleasures.

ਬਹੁਤੁ ॥

बहुतु करहि फुरमाइसी वरतहि होइ अफार ॥

Bahuṯ karahi furmā▫isī //ṯėh ho▫e afār.

You give all sorts of commands, and you act so superior.

ਕਰਤਾ ॥੧॥

करता चिति न आवई मनमुख अंध गवार ॥१॥

Karṯā cẖiṯ na āvī manmukẖ anḏẖ gavār. ||1||

The Creator does not come into the mind of the blind, idiotic, self-willed manmukh. ||1||

It's more about detachment

kis naal keechai dosti sabh jug chalanhaar and

ਏਹੁ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਤੂ ਜਿ ਦੇਖਦਾ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲੇ ॥

This family which you see shall not go along with you.

<a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%BF" onmouseover="ddrivetip('isāth /i   From Sātha', 250)" ;="" onmouseout="hideddrivetip()">ਸਾਥਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਨਾਲਿ ਕਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਈਐ ॥

They shall not go along with you, so why do you focus your attention on them?

AND ok too long to quote but

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1353&g=1&h=1&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0

if that link works - at the bottom, salok sehaskriti muhula 5, read to bottom and then go onto 1354 for another couple of paurian.

so the 5 thieves, KAAM, krodh, LOBH, MOH, hunkar - are all fed by such a relationship, especially the capital letter ones. but krodh to others who might look at ''your'' boyfriend and hunkar that he is ''yours'' occurs, but is false and avoidable.

As you say you seek physical contact/attachment. I know it must be difficult for you, and maybe you don't want to make that sacrifice as it were. but listening to katha, understanding the meaning and gian guru ji is giving us will elevate you above it - BUT it is not easy to obtain that, it is a stage of 'intelligence'/budhi/gian, where eventually you might posses brahmgian.

and i don't believe you should have premarital sex, as part of maryada - it would unnatural if it's protected, and if it's not 'safe' then you might become pregnant without being married and there are plenty of quotes for that from guru ji.

bhul chuk maaf karni,

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki fateh.

[AmarjitKaur]

I feel like jumping in on this discussion now that enough of the Veerji's discussed the topic on so far.

Dear young lady jee,

I feel for you wanting to be close to someone. Someone who can hug you, kiss you with love. I understand all that. But how would you tell that person on hand would not just use you and then say bye to you for someone else. My best suggestion is to get busy by either start learning to play some new instrument like harmonium, violin, any musical instrument. Or anything else you wanted to do for long time, and now that you got some free mind, could do it. It will deviate your attention and you will find that there is so much else in world to explore that you don't really need to yet explore the premarital sex stuff.

BTW, I am married mother of 2 kids. In age, I may be much older than you easily 15 years. But one day I was as old as you were. And I do remember those days. And by not wanting to want what you want right now, I know I didn't miss on anything. Just tell you crazy mind that you can have sex with only person in your life (yes, your whole life ) and that would be the father of your kids. Now ask this question to yourself, is this person on hand going to be father of your kids who will raise those kids with you one day and you can see him with you even when your kids will be in their teen years like you may be now. If you cann't imagine that, definitely, move on and just keep saying this repeatedly when thoughts bother you.

guru myrY sMig sdw hY nwly ] My Guru is always with me, near at hand.

ismir ismir iqsu sdw sm@wly ]1] rhwau ] Meditating, meditating in remembrance on Him, I cherish Him forever. ||1||Pause||

For full shabad please see www.srigranth.org ang 394

and other one

so siqguru ipAwrw myrY nwil hY ijQY ikQY mYno ley CfweI ]

so sathigur piaaraa maerai naal hai jithhai kithhai maino leae shhaddaaee ||

That Beloved True Guru is always with me; wherever I may be, He will save me.

on ang 587

Keep saying these above lines for few days whenever thoughts bother you. Eventually you will feel much better.

There is a reason why babaji brought you on this site. THere is a reason why babaji made you question before you go do anything. You will find that reason sooon. Just don't be quick to jump into things.

HOpe I helped. As I am female, and you could connect with me better and not anywhere close to you, am from USA. I do offer you to contact me by PM, if you like.

Bakee rub te chhud diyo.

Gur fateh jee.

[SunSingh]

Before I came into Sikhi, I was madly in love with a girl, and I felt that she loved me. i thought that we would get married, and we did not. Thankfully, Waheguru saved me from having premarital sex. I have heard the story numerous numerous times of people who loved each other, had sex, and then the relationship just did not end up working out, despite plans to get married. If you really love him, you can wait before you express that love physically.

[Shadow]

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

Dear PanJi Shadow,

Thank you for your message... maybe I expressed myself wrongly, but he is not my boyfriend. I firstly wanted to think about all this stuff connected to it, before doing anything.

Yes you are right, I did not take amrit. My parents brought me up like: You must believe GOD (Which I do, absolutely), but all other things will go along, eating meat, egg, getting your hair cut and all that stuff.

Do you know a female Saint? I would be grateful to read about her, do you have any internet link?

Thank you all very much,

Vaaheguroo Jee Kaa Khaalsaa, Vaaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!

Penji, heres one story of a female saint. It is taken from Bhai Sahib Randhir singh's autobiography when he met her:

HOLY MOTHER GULAB KAURI went to Haripur to see a very enlightened woman Saint, who had achieved, the state of blessedness. The Sikhs of Haripur who knew me also came to meet me. But I was anxious to see this woman Saint whom people called Mother Gulab Kaur, and the tales of whose supreme renunciation and saintliness had impressed me deeply. It would be proper to write here briefly about the early life of this woman Saint who had achieved the highest spiritual state. She was the first real Saint I met in life. Her story as told to me by a Sikh from Haripur is as follows:Gulab Kaur's husband was a very religious man. The spiritually enlightened husband had a devote and very pious wife in Gulab Kaur. The love and service of her husband was to her, the love and service of God. Like the unseparable Sheldrake and the moon, she could not live apart from her husband even for a moment. According to the wishes of her husband she had memorised the Sukhmani Sahib and Bavan Akhari and she recited these prayers every day. She was however not leading much of a contemplative life. She was too absorbed in the love of her husband. She did not a yet know tile spiritual significance of the divine Name, when her husband died at quite a young age. The death of her husband came as such a blow to her, that she turned her mind away from the world and like a true Sati (she who sacrifices herself alongwith her dead husband), she died to the physical world around her, only to live in spiritual ecstasy of divine silence. The light of God began to shine in her pure soul. The love for her husband gradually changed into an intense love for God in which she became deeply imbued.

She was beautiful and quite young. The spiritual grace on her face revealed her radiant soul. It was difficult to look straight into the red, dazzling glow of her face. She renounced the world and left her home. In this fearless state this young Child of Light wandered away, detached and free like a bird. Her mind was always fixed on God and she spent her days in deep meditative mood. She appeared to have lost all her body consciousness. Deeply absorbed in the divine Name, Mother Gulab Kaur moved about with a radiant charm on her face. There are innumerable stories about her saintliness and spiritual powers, which for want of space cannot be related here. Wherever she went, her meditative silence and spiritual beauty attracted people. The streets, the villages or even the forests bloomed with life and with the spirit of reverence, when she was there. She became very well known in Haripur, Hazara and the surrounding areas. She was so deeply absorbed in her meditative moods that she rarely spoke to anyone.

In ecstasy he laughsIn ecstasy he weeps.At times he becomes silent.Guru Nanak: // Asa p 473

Such was the spiritual condition of this saintly lady. She became careless about her clothes. All she had was an underwear (kach) and a blanket wrapped around her body. When I expressed my desire to meet her, people said: "She does not allow anyone to come near her. She drives away everyone by throwing stones at them. Out of fear no one goes near her. No one has seen her talking to anyone. Sometimes she is seen mumbling some words in a soliloquy. It is not easy to go near her. If you want to see her from a distance I can show her to you. If you wish to go near her, you may go at your own risk. Otherwise we do not dare to go near her."

After saying a short prayer, I set out to meet Mother Gulab Kaur. I came to know that she was sitting in front of a shop which was closed. People showed

her to me from the corner of a street. She was sitting with a blanket around her body and her back was towards us. While other people turned back, I moved on nearer her. Even her face was covered with the blanket. As I moved on with reverence and devotion close to her, the Holy Mother through her inner vision, having divined my presence, stood up with electric suddenness, and turning towards me with folded hands, she greeted me with the Khalsa greeting:"Vah-Guru ji ka Khalsa Vah-Guru ji ki Fateh"'The Khalsa is of God Victory unto the Wonderful Lord.'I was deeply moved and the people who looked on were quite surprised. One or two people dared now to come further. Mother Gulab Kaur was still standing with folded hands. In humble adoration I moved forward to touch her feet, but with her lotus like pure hands she prevented me from doing so. She was about to spread her blanket for me to sit, but I begged her not to do so, as a humble person like me could not bear to see such a divine soul like her bestow so unusual a respect and reverence on me, which I did not deserve. "I seek a humble place in the dust of thy feet Holy Mother", said I. I sat near her on the ground leaving the blanket with her. She sat there in a calm meditative mood, and I can still visualise her saintly figure sitting in silent contemplation. The profound impression of her divine personality is deeply engraved in my heart. It is difficult to describe the spiritual influence of the great personality and its cool and thrilling effect on my heart and soul. I felt purified and exalted and my heart began to beat louder with the rhythm of divine Name. There was a spiritual union of our souls and in this mystic silence we conversed with each other. The thought waves emanating from one were understood by the other. What need was there to speak. After sometime the Holy Mother spoke in a melodious voice saying: "I am only a lone traveller. How shall I entertain you? I am just a lone traveller."

In a very sweet and musical voice she repeated these words again. Then she suddenly got up, asking me to keep sitting there for a while. She took her blanket and in an intoxicated mood moved towards a fruit shop. She picked up some fruits from the shop, brought them there and offering them to me said:

"Accept this humble offering of one who is dedicated to the Lord". I accepted the great Saint's offering of love and felt greatly blessed. Then she said: "May you ever be blessed. All blessings on you, noble Sikh of the Guru. The Guru has indeed lighted a wonderful lamp". In a sublime state of mind she showered blessings and love on me. I begged the Holy Mother to bestow benediction on me and pray that this lamp which had been lighted by the Guru may ever keep on burning. She said: "It will keep on burning with ever increasing light." We were both standing and she now wished me to depart. I asked the Holy Mother, "When may I get a chance to have a glimpse of her divine personality again". To this she replied:

"Spiritually united souls never feel any separation. On the physical plane there may not be any meeting but we will meet again in the Presence of the Lord." And then in a tone of blessing she said, "you have now received the divine call to perform Akhand Paths. Go, be blessed, and enjoy spiritual enlightenment. On the way pay homage to the Panja Sahib Gurdwara.

These were the few words she spoke in the short meeting between us. I bowed low to touch her feet. There were tears in her eyes. I too was overwhelmed with tears. Placing her hand on my back she blessed me again and helped me to rise to my feet. After completing the pilgrimage to Panja Sahib and Amritsar, I came back to the village and met the divine friends from whom I had been long separated. By the grace of the Guru there was one Akhand Path after another and my spiritual condition became more and more exalted. I do not know for how many years and months this undisturbed peace and bliss lasted until suddenly the hawks of fate pounced on a carefree bird and then started the saga of long prison life.

(Background history of Mother Gulab Kaur)

It is learnt that Mai Gulab Kaur was born in Village Burhan in Campblpur district in the year 1920 AD. She was the daughter of Bhai Darha Aml, a sahajdhari Sikh and devotee of the Guru. She was married at the age if fifteen to one Bhai Des Raj of Haripur in 1935 AD. The couple stayed in Sohewale Mohalla in Haripur. She had one son and two daughters. Ten years before her deathe her husband died. Mai Gulab Kaur died some time in the year 1949-50. She spent the last ten years of her life in a state of spiritual intoxication. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh says that when he met her, she wore a kach, and wrapped her body in a blanket. She was amritdhari (baptised) and lived strictly according to the Khalsa code of conduct, but it was not known where and when she was baptised. At Haripur people called her Gulabo, the mad woman. The Muslims revered her as a great saint, and respected her more than the Sikhs and Hindus.

(This is an extract from BHAI SAHIB BHAI RANDHIR SINGH's Autobiography.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please still read about Baba Harnaam singh since you will see how to reach that saintly level too. His life was amazing:

http://www.rampurkhe...inehiya2006.pdf

Also, there is a book called rangle sajan written by bhai sahib randhir singh. He mentions many saints that reached a high spiritual level. Some include females.

Heres a link to the book (look in the contents to find chapters about females):

http://akj.org/liter...ook-RSajjan.pdf

Hope that helps.

[tarunjeet singh]

What is the Sikh attitude towards friendship with the opposite gender?

Friendship with the opposite gender is not prohibited. However, to go beyond the lines of innocent friendship would be contrary to Gurmat.

ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਪੇਖੈ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ॥

"With your eyes, do not even gaze (in a lustful manner) upon the beauty of another."

(Sukhmani Sahib, Ang 274)

ਦੇਖਿ ਪਰਾਈਆਂ ਚੰਗੀਆਂ ਮਾਵਾਂ ਭੈਣਾਂ ਧੀਆਂ ਜਾਣੈ ॥

"Men should look at the opposite gender as mothers, sisters and daughters, (women should look at the opposite gender as fathers, brothers and sons)."

(Bhāī Gurdās: Vār 29/ Paurī 11)

Intimate relationships at any level are harmful – whether it is physical intimacy or emotional one. Intimacy on any level (physical or emotional) should be restricted to one's husband or wife, who are one's committed life partners. If you send texts, emails or chat to someone on MSN or over the phone and you feel embarrassed and ashamed if someone else reads the text, email or heard the conversation, then that tells you that you shouldn't be doing it. One should remember that God is always watching us and therefore live in the fear & love of God.

Gurbani says:

ਨਿਮਖ ਕਾਮ ਸੁਆਦ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਕੋਟਿ ਦਿਨਸ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ॥

ਘਰੀ ਮੁਹਤ ਰੰਗ ਮਾਣਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਵਹਿ ॥੧॥

"For a moment of sexual pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days. For an instant, you may savour pleasure, but afterwards, you shall regret it, again and again. ||1||"

(Ang 405)

When you form a friendship - be it a friendship with the same gender or a platonic one to a member of the opposite gender (or if you’re married think about the relationship that you have with your spouse). They usually have the same foundation which is you sharing something in common with that person which helps the relationship flourish. It could be having the same lame sense of humour, your passion of eating and burping together…whatever - its that ‘something in common’ which lets you form a close relationship.

So if the starting of all three relationships is the same what stops a platonic friendship turning into romance? After all it’s based on the same ingredients – you’ll grow to admire, depend and trust each other – something you would also hope to share with your prospective partner. It’s so easy for it to turn into romance that it’s best not to dwell on it in the first place. Prevention is better than heartache after all.

ਹੇ ਕਾਮੰ ਨਰਕ ਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮੰ ਬਹੁ ਜੋਨੀ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਵਣਹ ॥

ਚਿਤ ਹਰਣੰ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਲੋਕ ਗੰਮ੍ਯ੍ਯੰ ਜਪ ਤਪ ਸੀਲ ਬਿਦਾਰਣਹ ॥

ਅਲਪ ਸੁਖ ਅਵਿਤ ਚੰਚਲ ਊਚ ਨੀਚ ਸਮਾਵਣਹ ॥

ਤਵ ਭੈ ਬਿਮੁੰਚਿਤ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਮ ਓਟ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਰਾਇਣਹ ॥੪੬॥

"O sexual desire, you lead the mortals to hell; you make them wander in reincarnation through countless species. You cheat the consciousness, and pervade the three worlds. You destroy meditation, penance and virtue. But you give only shallow pleasure, while you make the mortals weak and unsteady; you pervade the high and the low. Your fear is dispelled in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, O Nanak, through the Protection and Support of the Lord. ||46||"

(Ang 1358)

According to Sikh Rehit Maryada it is a cardinal sin, known as Bajjar Kurehit, to have an physical intimate relationship before marriage.

ਅਨੰਦ ਬਿਵਾਹ ਤੇ ਭੁਗਤੇ ਪਰ ਕੀ ਜੋਇ ॥ ਸੁਣ ਸਿਖਾ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਹ ਥੱਕੇ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਿਖ ਨ ਸੋਇ ॥੨੫॥

"Without having Anand Karaj those who have sexual relationships. Listen O' Sikh the Guru states, he is not my Sikh."

(10th Guru - Muktnama)

[Guest Guest]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

Young lady ji,

Kindly check out the link below for inspiration

http://www.sikhee.com/sikh-women.html

Transforming Sexual Feelings

Youth and Having Relationships

A Sikh must have total faith in teachings of Gurbani and Sikh Rehat Maryada.

If you have any doubt or feel uncertain, do Ardas in front of Guru Granth Sahib jeeo for help, clarity, strength and wait for solution.

In the meantime pray, would recommend Chaupai Sahib on daily basis

Guru Sahib jeeo kirpa karan

Waheguru ji ka khalsa

Waheguru ji ki fateh

[Papi]

Kaljug to the max, I can't believe that people gave 2 pages worth of explanation to this bibi.

Jey hajey vi tu sauna odey naal, ta jaa key sau jaa, saanu pushan di ki lor aa <_<

[AmarjitKaur]

Kaljug to the max, I can't believe that people gave 2 pages worth of explanation to this bibi.

Jey hajey vi tu sauna odey naal, ta jaa key sau jaa, saanu pushan di ki lor aa

Veerji, I would say, not a appropriate response. Anyways, you are entitled to your opinion though.