Do You Believe You Have To Be Gursikh To Be A Sikh

[BhForce]

do you believe you have to be a gursikh to be a sikh

I think the question isn't substantive, but rather about definitions. (That's not meant to be an insult.)

As far as I would argue, in Gurbani, the word "Gursikh" means the same as "Sikh". Sikh is just short for Gursikh, which in turn is short for Sikh of the Guru (Guru Nanak Dev ji, to be specific).

In the same way, Sangat isn't different from GurSangat or SatSang or SadhSangat, it's just the same thing. And Bani is just short for GurBani. And Guru is used as being short for SatGuru.

However, I think what you're really asking is this:

Do you have to be [a Sikh-1, as defined by Gurbani] in order to be [a Sikh-2, as defined by the Census].

Well, the answer to that is no. Bani has a very strict definition of Sikh. The census (in every country) has a very loose definition.

If you actually meant something else, go ahead and define your terms and we can go from there.

[sonearyetSOfar]

do you believe you have to be a gursikh to be a sikh

Your motive from other posts makes it clear that you are essentially asking:

"What is the most cowardly way that I can consider myself brave".

The answer is there is not a single one.

Instead, why don't you ask the same question we should all ask....How can I become a better sikh(=gursikh) myself. A Sikh is someone who has the humility to do that. There are many beautiful brothers and sisters from all backgrounds and at all stages who approach sikhi with this humility as we speak.

Stop it with the childish games and rants to justify your personal circumstances and practices jgill, you are bringing the quality of discussion on this forum way down.

i know i can fight and die for what i believe in, but from your post it sounds like if someone doesn't practise sikhi to a gursikhs extent your calling them a coward, which is the dumbest thing ive ever heard cause their many gursikhs who would hide from battle and many mona who would die for their ppl

LOL

that is the cowards way - the muslim suicide bombers die for their religion, not cause they're brave, but they want a quick way to mukti - but it doesn't work like that.

''i know i can fight and die for what i believe in'' - what do you believe in...

it's not about dying like that. it's more about being dead while being alive.

ਸਲੋਕ ॥

Shalok:

ਕਬੀਰਾ ॥

Kabeer, the world is dying - dying to death, but no one knows how to truly die.

ਐਸੀ ॥੧॥

Whoever dies, let him die such a death, that he does not have to die again. ||1||

ਤਉ ਕੜੀਐ ਜੇ ਕਿਛੁ ਹੋਇ ਧਿਙਾਣੈ ॥

तउ कड़ीऐ जे किछु होइ धिङाणै ॥

Ŧa▫o kaṛī▫ai je kicẖẖ ho▫e ḏẖińāṇai.

We should feel sad, if God were a tyrant.

ਤਉ ॥

तउ कड़ीऐ जे भूलि रंञाणै ॥

Ŧa▫o kaṛī▫ai je bẖūl rañāṇe.

We should feel sad, if He made us suffer by mistake.

ਗੁਰਿ ॥

गुरि कहिआ जो होइ सभु प्रभ ते ॥

Gur kahi▫ā jo ho▫e sabẖ parabẖ ṯe.

The Guru says that whatever happens is all by God's Will.

<a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%AC" onmouseover="ddrivetip('iṯab /i   Then', 250)" ;="" onmouseout="hideddrivetip()">ਤਬ ਕਾੜਾ ਛੋਡਿ ਅਚਿੰਤ ਹਮ ਸੋਤੇ ॥੩॥

तब काड़ा छोडि अचिंत हम सोते ॥३॥

Ŧab kāṛā cẖẖod acẖinṯ ham soṯe. ||3||

So I have abandoned sadness, and I now sleep without anxiety. ||3||

[AmarjitKaur]

[

I think the question isn't substantive, but rather about definitions. (That's not meant to be an insult.)

As far as I would argue, in Gurbani, the word "Gursikh" means the same as "Sikh". Sikh is just short for Gursikh, which in turn is short for Sikh of the Guru (Guru Nanak Dev ji, to be specific).

In the same way, Sangat isn't different from GurSangat or SatSang or SadhSangat, it's just the same thing. And Bani is just short for GurBani. And Guru is used as being short for SatGuru.

I disagree with above terms.

sangat is whom do u associate with. Gursangat/satsang/sadhsangat means association with people who bring out the goodness in you.

And Kusangat is association with people who bring out the evilness in you.

so sangat is general term and then further specification is based on whom do u associate with.

Similarly, SIKH means disciple/learner. Gursikh means, Guru da sikh, and Guru is Shabad Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, which is the jot of all 10 Gurus and other bhagats dee bani, which have been authorized by different GURUs to be included as the part of the shabad guru.

Not everything is short for something. like Guri is short for gurwinder or gurmail or whatever else starts with Gur in the front.

Yes, bani is Guru's bani, which also includes bhagats bani included in SGGSji.

[AmarjitKaur]

do you believe you have to be a gursikh to be a sikh

let me make it easy for you to understand.

To be gursikh should be goal of your life.

All the gursikhs that you see around you, weren't gursikhs from day one. They started on this path one day and slowly slowly developed themselves. Actually better words to be used would be that Guruji brought them closer and closer as everything happens with Guru's grace. The only thing which is slightly under our contol is beg and beg and beg like those beggers that you see in india when you roll up the windows of your car and they still keep begging outside your car's windows and you pretend to ignore them and you move your car somewhere else and they still follow your car there. and you try to pretend to be on cell phone or reading a newspaper something to give them signal that you are not going to give them anything. Those beggers know how to beg despite all the ignoring they get from you.

The only difference is that GOD is not trying to ignore us. He wants us to beg for SIKHI, its just us, we are not doing it, and if we are, we havnt' learened it yet how, or we dont' do it enough like those beggers in india. We are hoping for sikhi to just walk in our life, while we enjoy singing dancing on filmy songs. in nutshell, we like to enjoy the creation of the creator, while creator wants to raise us above the love for creation. But we enjoy creation so much that we forget about the love for the creator but get entangled in love for the creation only. Whole life we just keep ourselves, busy with these materilistic things in life, that we just don't have time to thank God, praise God, meditate on GOD.

The day one realizes that what love is better for him/her, that would be the day one would start walking on the path of SIKHI. But remember its just first step and destination is to be accepted in Guru's court. How would you get accepted in Guru's court?? well that answer you won't get until you actually start walking on the road.

So cut my long post short, start begging bababji (GOD/Waheguru/SGGSji) to make you connecte to HIM not so much to creation of HIM. remember, Guruji said grihsat jeevan, so we still have to live in this world, still have to do our daily duties, but keep him in mind.

To answer your or anybody else's question about Amrit (is is necessary??). This is how I like to think. There are 2 kinds of dogs. Ones you see moving on streets, eating whatever is thrown on street or whatever they can snatch from someone. And the other kind are, who belong to some family, dogs who are Pets of someone. They get taken care by that family, loved and given food by the owner. So thats the difference between belonging to Guru and not belonging to Guru. You can still call yourself sikh (like a street dog) but you are not guru da sikh (like a pet dog) until you take Amrit. So Amrit is like leash owner puts around your neck. It makes you follow the discipline, requires some commitments from you. in return you don't have to worry about food, about hot cold weather, about being sick, about love. Owner takes care of your needs. But in case of God's leela, God still takes care of your needs, but you don't have a sense of belonging to Guru unless you get that leash around your waist, your wrist, your head etc. (panj kakkars). You still worry when things don't go in your ways. But Gursikhs don't, as they know everything is happening according to Guru's will. Gursikhs get pains and sufferning in their lives, but it doens't bother them that much as they know nothing is going to stay whether its suffering or happiness.

Hope I answered, according to tuchh budhi I have been given by Babaji. didn't try to offend anyone. If I said, something which is Anti-Gurmat, please do the kirpa to correct me.

Guru Ang sang always.

[Jag_Singh]

jee,

It's like you push so hard, so hard then it all fails and you flip on people who you think are your enemies. But I agree with nearly all the posts so far.

[Only five]

As I said before jgill, tell us the difference meaning of these two terms as described in Gurbani. Also you keep going on about being a Truesikh. Tell us the difference between being a Sikh and a Truesikh as described in Gurbani.

There is no difference between any of these terms. They are just all one in the same, but to stress the meaning of Sikh Guru Sahib would put Gur or True infront of it. Sikh is stressed in some of the shabads because Guru Sahib wanted to show you must follow all the teachings laid down by the Shabad Guru and then consider yourself a Sikh.

If you look at history and see who was the first Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji the name Bhai Lehna ji would come up. What did Bhai Lehna ji do to become a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji? He followed everything and I mean everything Guru Nanak Dev ji told him to do. We all have heard the Sakhi and how Guru Nanak Dev ji's sons would disobey him. Now if you disobey Guru Nanak Dev ji would you really be considered Sikh of the Guru. Sikh of the Guru follows his Guru's word 100% and if you don't then your a Sikh of your own mind. Because whatever pleases your mind and seems right to your mind you do as the mind tells you.

So if you look at 'Sikhs' these days. Guru Sahib said keep your hair uncut, but these Sikhs don't follow this. But what they do follow is doing paath going to the Gurdwara when they get a chance. Then when a wedding comes they attend the reception, on the bases, if I don't go to his reception then they won't come to mine.

We all know Guru Sahib said stay away from bad sangat and don't attend these types of events. But still 'Sikhs' these days run, openly invite, openly provide alcohol, and openly attend these events. And if you look around 98% of them have cut their hair to fit the norm of society.

Surely some do their paath, but are any of them gaining anything from reading the paath day in and day out. Guru Sahib constantly says follow the Shabad Guru and these 'Sikhs' refuse to do so. Every morning they wake up read Jap ji Sahib and then go on their way committing their minds desired actions. No using my opinion or my definition of Sikh. But going on Guru Sahib definition then we would have to say NO these type are not Sikh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. If most these guy are the 50% Sikhs or 60% Sikhs.

Now all of you that believe in a 50% SIkh is what Guru Sahib is calling SIkh in Gurbani should present the shabads. I know the GurSikhs, stressing Sikh here not differentiating for Sikh, knows that Guru Sahib says follow the Shabad Guru 100% and then you are considered a SIkh. But then again GurSikhs, don't want to push the slow developers or the newcomers away from Sikhi by sounding too extreme. They believe the slow developer will learn on his/her own what it means to be a Sikh. Completely understandable. But on the other hand you are also misleading majority of the public by giving the name Sikh to the 50% 'Sikhs' when Bhai Lehna ji had to work so hard for it and his love for Guru Nanak Dev ji was beyond this world.

Surely the 50% Sikhs will claim I have love for Guru Sahib, but even this love would be put in the terms as 50% or 20% or 80% or 90% etc etc. Again Guru Sahib is not looking for these percents. Yes he is glad you are moving along the Sikhi path and becoming a devoted follower of his, but in this progress don't try to demean what SIkh stand for because your or I are unable to follow it 100%.

[Only five]

waiting for your response jgill. You seem to run when things get thick.

[jgill]

As I said before jgill, tell us the difference meaning of these two terms as described in Gurbani. Also you keep going on about being a Truesikh. Tell us the difference between being a Sikh and a Truesikh as described in Gurbani.

There is no difference between any of these terms. They are just all one in the same, but to stress the meaning of Sikh Guru Sahib would put Gur or True infront of it. Sikh is stressed in some of the shabads because Guru Sahib wanted to show you must follow all the teachings laid down by the Shabad Guru and then consider yourself a Sikh.

If you look at history and see who was the first Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji the name Bhai Lehna ji would come up. What did Bhai Lehna ji do to become a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji? He followed everything and I mean everything Guru Nanak Dev ji told him to do. We all have heard the Sakhi and how Guru Nanak Dev ji's sons would disobey him. Now if you disobey Guru Nanak Dev ji would you really be considered Sikh of the Guru. Sikh of the Guru follows his Guru's word 100% and if you don't then your a Sikh of your own mind. Because whatever pleases your mind and seems right to your mind you do as the mind tells you.

So if you look at 'Sikhs' these days. Guru Sahib said keep your hair uncut, but these Sikhs don't follow this. But what they do follow is doing paath going to the Gurdwara when they get a chance. Then when a wedding comes they attend the reception, on the bases, if I don't go to his reception then they won't come to mine.

We all know Guru Sahib said stay away from bad sangat and don't attend these types of events. But still 'Sikhs' these days run, openly invite, openly provide alcohol, and openly attend these events. And if you look around 98% of them have cut their hair to fit the norm of society.

Surely some do their paath, but are any of them gaining anything from reading the paath day in and day out. Guru Sahib constantly says follow the Shabad Guru and these 'Sikhs' refuse to do so. Every morning they wake up read Jap ji Sahib and then go on their way committing their minds desired actions. No using my opinion or my definition of Sikh. But going on Guru Sahib definition then we would have to say NO these type are not Sikh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. If most these guy are the 50% Sikhs or 60% Sikhs.

Now all of you that believe in a 50% SIkh is what Guru Sahib is calling SIkh in Gurbani should present the shabads. I know the GurSikhs, stressing Sikh here not differentiating for Sikh, knows that Guru Sahib says follow the Shabad Guru 100% and then you are considered a SIkh. But then again GurSikhs, don't want to push the slow developers or the newcomers away from Sikhi by sounding too extreme. They believe the slow developer will learn on his/her own what it means to be a Sikh. Completely understandable. But on the other hand you are also misleading majority of the public by giving the name Sikh to the 50% 'Sikhs' when Bhai Lehna ji had to work so hard for it and his love for Guru Nanak Dev ji was beyond this world.

Surely the 50% Sikhs will claim I have love for Guru Sahib, but even this love would be put in the terms as 50% or 20% or 80% or 90% etc etc. Again Guru Sahib is not looking for these percents. Yes he is glad you are moving along the Sikhi path and becoming a devoted follower of his, but in this progress don't try to demean what SIkh stand for because your or I are unable to follow it 100%.

never have run away when things have gotton thick, could you tell me were i have or are you just being dumb again

look at what i highlighted from your post, but yet you call kartar singh udham singh and ranjit singh sikhs even though they cut their hair had many wives and affairs drank achole ate meat but others non sikhs if they cut their hair or drink or whatever

tell me why call these guys sikhs and others non sikhs who drink or cut their hair and so on

this shows how big of a idotic hypocrite you are

do you know the definition of a hypocrite

[Only five]

As I said before jgill, tell us the difference meaning of these two terms as described in Gurbani. Also you keep going on about being a Truesikh. Tell us the difference between being a Sikh and a Truesikh as described in Gurbani.

There is no difference between any of these terms. They are just all one in the same, but to stress the meaning of Sikh Guru Sahib would put Gur or True infront of it. Sikh is stressed in some of the shabads because Guru Sahib wanted to show you must follow all the teachings laid down by the Shabad Guru and then consider yourself a Sikh.

If you look at history and see who was the first Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji the name Bhai Lehna ji would come up. What did Bhai Lehna ji do to become a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji? He followed everything and I mean everything Guru Nanak Dev ji told him to do. We all have heard the Sakhi and how Guru Nanak Dev ji's sons would disobey him. Now if you disobey Guru Nanak Dev ji would you really be considered Sikh of the Guru. Sikh of the Guru follows his Guru's word 100% and if you don't then your a Sikh of your own mind. Because whatever pleases your mind and seems right to your mind you do as the mind tells you.

So if you look at 'Sikhs' these days. Guru Sahib said keep your hair uncut, but these Sikhs don't follow this. But what they do follow is doing paath going to the Gurdwara when they get a chance. Then when a wedding comes they attend the reception, on the bases, if I don't go to his reception then they won't come to mine.

We all know Guru Sahib said stay away from bad sangat and don't attend these types of events. But still 'Sikhs' these days run, openly invite, openly provide alcohol, and openly attend these events. And if you look around 98% of them have cut their hair to fit the norm of society.

Surely some do their paath, but are any of them gaining anything from reading the paath day in and day out. Guru Sahib constantly says follow the Shabad Guru and these 'Sikhs' refuse to do so. Every morning they wake up read Jap ji Sahib and then go on their way committing their minds desired actions. No using my opinion or my definition of Sikh. But going on Guru Sahib definition then we would have to say NO these type are not Sikh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. If most these guy are the 50% Sikhs or 60% Sikhs.

Now all of you that believe in a 50% SIkh is what Guru Sahib is calling SIkh in Gurbani should present the shabads. I know the GurSikhs, stressing Sikh here not differentiating for Sikh, knows that Guru Sahib says follow the Shabad Guru 100% and then you are considered a SIkh. But then again GurSikhs, don't want to push the slow developers or the newcomers away from Sikhi by sounding too extreme. They believe the slow developer will learn on his/her own what it means to be a Sikh. Completely understandable. But on the other hand you are also misleading majority of the public by giving the name Sikh to the 50% 'Sikhs' when Bhai Lehna ji had to work so hard for it and his love for Guru Nanak Dev ji was beyond this world.

Surely the 50% Sikhs will claim I have love for Guru Sahib, but even this love would be put in the terms as 50% or 20% or 80% or 90% etc etc. Again Guru Sahib is not looking for these percents. Yes he is glad you are moving along the Sikhi path and becoming a devoted follower of his, but in this progress don't try to demean what SIkh stand for because your or I are unable to follow it 100%.

never have run away when things have gotton thick, could you tell me were i have or are you just being dumb again

look at what i highlighted from your post, but yet you call kartar singh udham singh and ranjit singh sikhs even though they cut their hair had many wives and affairs drank achole ate meat but others non sikhs if they cut their hair or drink or whatever

tell me why call these guys sikhs and others non sikhs who drink or cut their hair and so on

this shows how big of a idotic hypocrite you are

do you know the definition of a hypocrite

Your still running man. Whether I or anyone else calls themselves a Sikh or another Sikh is not the discussion here based on a certain criteria. We are discussing how Guru Sahib, the Shabad Guru describes and defines a Sikh.

Status and fame of owning anything is trivial and does not hold up in Guru Sahibs court. Devotion and dedication is looked at as virtues. You seem not to get this so this is why your bring others names up in this arguement, which is again irrevelant.

Again we are defining a Sikh by Gurbani not looking at anothers downfalls and then justfying and find the definition of Sikh. And this is only done to make ignorant people realize Renu bakishis intentions on writing the article you presented and praise in so many ways as if it is the final word of God.

This is getting old and if your unwilling to answer the questions I put forward then in the next 2 or 3 post you won't get a response from me. Not going to waste my time with a person that only likes to rant and bring up baseless arguments.

[jgill]

As I said before jgill, tell us the difference meaning of these two terms as described in Gurbani. Also you keep going on about being a Truesikh. Tell us the difference between being a Sikh and a Truesikh as described in Gurbani.

There is no difference between any of these terms. They are just all one in the same, but to stress the meaning of Sikh Guru Sahib would put Gur or True infront of it. Sikh is stressed in some of the shabads because Guru Sahib wanted to show you must follow all the teachings laid down by the Shabad Guru and then consider yourself a Sikh.

If you look at history and see who was the first Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji the name Bhai Lehna ji would come up. What did Bhai Lehna ji do to become a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji? He followed everything and I mean everything Guru Nanak Dev ji told him to do. We all have heard the Sakhi and how Guru Nanak Dev ji's sons would disobey him. Now if you disobey Guru Nanak Dev ji would you really be considered Sikh of the Guru. Sikh of the Guru follows his Guru's word 100% and if you don't then your a Sikh of your own mind. Because whatever pleases your mind and seems right to your mind you do as the mind tells you.

So if you look at 'Sikhs' these days. Guru Sahib said keep your hair uncut, but these Sikhs don't follow this. But what they do follow is doing paath going to the Gurdwara when they get a chance. Then when a wedding comes they attend the reception, on the bases, if I don't go to his reception then they won't come to mine.

We all know Guru Sahib said stay away from bad sangat and don't attend these types of events. But still 'Sikhs' these days run, openly invite, openly provide alcohol, and openly attend these events. And if you look around 98% of them have cut their hair to fit the norm of society.

Surely some do their paath, but are any of them gaining anything from reading the paath day in and day out. Guru Sahib constantly says follow the Shabad Guru and these 'Sikhs' refuse to do so. Every morning they wake up read Jap ji Sahib and then go on their way committing their minds desired actions. No using my opinion or my definition of Sikh. But going on Guru Sahib definition then we would have to say NO these type are not Sikh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. If most these guy are the 50% Sikhs or 60% Sikhs.

Now all of you that believe in a 50% SIkh is what Guru Sahib is calling SIkh in Gurbani should present the shabads. I know the GurSikhs, stressing Sikh here not differentiating for Sikh, knows that Guru Sahib says follow the Shabad Guru 100% and then you are considered a SIkh. But then again GurSikhs, don't want to push the slow developers or the newcomers away from Sikhi by sounding too extreme. They believe the slow developer will learn on his/her own what it means to be a Sikh. Completely understandable. But on the other hand you are also misleading majority of the public by giving the name Sikh to the 50% 'Sikhs' when Bhai Lehna ji had to work so hard for it and his love for Guru Nanak Dev ji was beyond this world.

Surely the 50% Sikhs will claim I have love for Guru Sahib, but even this love would be put in the terms as 50% or 20% or 80% or 90% etc etc. Again Guru Sahib is not looking for these percents. Yes he is glad you are moving along the Sikhi path and becoming a devoted follower of his, but in this progress don't try to demean what SIkh stand for because your or I are unable to follow it 100%.

never have run away when things have gotton thick, could you tell me were i have or are you just being dumb again

look at what i highlighted from your post, but yet you call kartar singh udham singh and ranjit singh sikhs even though they cut their hair had many wives and affairs drank achole ate meat but others non sikhs if they cut their hair or drink or whatever

tell me why call these guys sikhs and others non sikhs who drink or cut their hair and so on

this shows how big of a idotic hypocrite you are

do you know the definition of a hypocrite

Your still running man. Whether I or anyone else calls themselves a Sikh or another Sikh is not the discussion here based on a certain criteria. We are discussing how Guru Sahib, the Shabad Guru describes and defines a Sikh.

Status and fame of owning anything is trivial and does not hold up in Guru Sahibs court. Devotion and dedication is looked at as virtues. You seem not to get this so this is why your bring others names up in this arguement, which is again irrevelant.

Again we are defining a Sikh by Gurbani not looking at anothers downfalls and then justfying and find the definition of Sikh. And this is only done to make ignorant people realize Renu bakishis intentions on writing the article you presented and praise in so many ways as if it is the final word of God.

This is getting old and if your unwilling to answer the questions I put forward then in the next 2 or 3 post you won't get a response from me. Not going to waste my time with a person that only likes to rant and bring up baseless arguments.

now im going to answer your question, but you in return have to answer mine, i don't want to hear anything else accept an answer to my questions, is that fair, if not tell me why

and i believe a sikh is someone who loves his sikhi and works towards building a relationship with god, and someone who would die for god, but it doesn't mean someone has to be gursikh to want to die for god cause i know alot of ppl who find keertan boring and just can't connect spiritually yet still have a love for sikhi and god

i believe a sikh is a student of god and that to be a sikh you must grow in life and grow your relationship with god

i believe sikhi means learner

now my questions since i answered yours, im not insulting you or anything but don't run away from this question

you said that anyone who drinks or cuts their hair isn't a sikh

yet you call men like kartar singh udham singh ranjit singh sikhs

why do you believe kartar singh udham singh ranjit singh are sikhs

and why do you call them sikhs yet anyone else who cuts their hair or drinks a non sikh and a punjabi

cause by your definition of sikhism then we never had an empire it was a punjabi empire god didn't want to give any sikhs an empire it seems like

then their are no famous freedom fighters the sikhs produced by your definition of sikhism