Marriage, The Perception Of Beards And Turbans, And The Future Of Our Religion (My Story)

[californiasardar1]

Hi,

Let me start with some background about myself. I was born and raised in America. My hair has been uncut my entire life. I don't drink. When I was young, my parents taught me about the Sikh religion and I was always very proud of it. I don't think any other religion is as progressive or sensible.

While I have always been proud to be Sikh, I can't say the same about being Punjabi. Why? I had some very bad experiences with Punjabi people in my youth. The children at the local gurdwara (where most kids had cut hair) would often tease me for keeping my kesh. As we got older, the teasing became less frequent, but I still felt like I was always shunned or excluded to a certain extent by the other kids. I was also ridiculed for being poor (my family doesn't come from a poor background in India, or a so-called "low caste", but some unfortunate circumstances that I will not get into contributed to a relatively low standard of living). Ironically, my non-Punjabi friends seemed to give me much less grief over my hair or the economic background of my family.

I know that these are just my own personal experiences, and I am not trying to say that all Punjabi people are like the ones I encountered as a youngster, but they nevertheless left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. I felt completely rejected by Punjabi people and since I left home to go to college, I tried my best to steer clear of them. I am aware of how paradoxical this all is: a man who is proud to be a Sikh and will not change his appearance or lifestyle to assimilate into "mainstream America", and yet feels uncomfortable around other Sikhs and does his best to avoid them.

Anyway, as a result of my bad experiences and subsequent isolation, I never really imagined myself marrying a Punjabi Sikh girl. Of course, I couldn't really imagine a non-Sikh girl taking an interest in me either. I guess I wasn't living in reality, but for what it's worth, I'd usually think of unrealistic scenarios in which I'd end up with a white girl, and never of unrealistic scenarios in which I'd end up with a Punjabi girl.

As I've gotten older (I'm now 27), I've slowly moved back into reality and realized how impossible it is for a non-Sikh girl to be interested in me. The association that people have with bearded, turbanned men and Islamic terrorism is just too pervasive. And even to the more enlightened, I will always look too "foreign". Consequently, I have tried to make myself understand that my bad experience with Punjabi people was something that I needed to come to terms with and let go of.

For the last year, I've tried to get back in touch with my Punjabi roots, and I've also tried to meet Punjabi girls. Of course, having isolated myself from the Punjabi community for so long, I don't know many Punjabi people and I've had to resort to matrimonial websites (like shaadi.com) to meet girls.

Here's the impression I've gotten: due to my beard and turban, I have about as little chance with 99% of Punjabi girls as I do with the average American girl.

Being objective, I'm far from a bad looking guy. I tie my beard, I'm tall, fit, and highly educated. If you are wondering about my caste, I'm jatt. Yet, I'm having a very hard time finding anyone who is even willing to talk to me.

I don't know where this leaves me. I could never live with myself if I cut my hair and shaved off my beard. It would violate my religious principles, and it would be a slap in the face to all the taunting and discrimination I have endured in my life. Yet, there is this inescapable feeling that I have that my decision to maintain a Sikhi sarup is equivalent to being sentenced to a lifetime of loneliness. I've been able to deal with what I went through as a kid, I've been able to put up with the post 9/11 bull-----, but this is just too galling.

Please understand that I'm not trying to make this a men vs. women issue. (I know there are a lot of issues that women in our religion/culture have to deal with.) And I'm not saying every last Punjabi Sikh girl will only consider a clean-shaven man. But, being objective, there are very few who would entertain the thought of marrying a sardar with an uncut beard.

I hope that this is just a difficult period that I'm going through and that if I look hard enough I will find the right person (although I have very serious doubts). But lets look at the issue beyond myself or any one person. It's human nature for a man to want the affection and companionship of a woman. What is going to happen to our community if the only options for a keshdari young man are to 1) go to India and find someone who he might not have much in common with and who is likely only interested in him so that she can come to America, or 2) go on with a needle-in-a-haystack type search (as I am doing) . Nobody likes to have such limited options, and it will be difficult even for substantially religious men to resist cutting their hair under such circumstances.

If we are to prevent the bearded, turbanned Sikh from disappearing, we have to do something. Blaming young Sikh women is not right and it is not productive. People are products of their environments, and from a young age, both in India and the west, people are conditioned to look at beards and turbans as unattractive. I wish we could do something to counter this. I wish there were some high profile, handsome sardars for people to observe. Beards and turbans do not have to be associated exclusively with al-Qaeda operatives you see on the news or buffoonish sardars in Bollywood films. They can have the regal, commanding quality that I (at least) get when I look at paintings of Guru Gobind Singh or Hari Singh Nalwa.

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate any insight or comments you might have about my predicament in particular or this larger problem that our community is facing.

[SinghSabha]

Can we stop with the low self-esteem posts?

If you are sardar, and you can't get a girl, then there is something wrong with you and it isn't your turban. I will see guys at gurdwara. They type that look like they tied their dastar in the dark, their beard is totally untamed, they dress like they don't give a damn, and they probably have never set foot in a gym. Those are the guys that complain that girls don't like sardars. No mate, they just don't like YOU.

I've seen plenty of sardars who get girls. Non-Sikh as well as Sikh girls. The girls that fall out of pubs in the wee hours of the morning probably don't like sardars, but you know what? GOOD RIDDANCE!

[SinghSabha]

While I have always been proud to be Sikh, I can't say the same about being Punjabi. Why? I had some very bad experiences with Punjabi people in my youth. The children at the local gurdwara (where most kids had cut hair) would often tease me for keeping my kesh. As we got older, the teasing became less frequent, but I still felt like I was always shunned or excluded to a certain extent by the other kids. I was also ridiculed for being poor (my family doesn't come from a poor background in India, or a so-called "low caste", but some unfortunate circumstances that I will not get into contributed to a relatively low standard of living). Ironically, my non-Punjabi friends seemed to give me much less grief over my hair or the economic background of my family.

I know that these are just my own personal experiences, and I am not trying to say that all Punjabi people are like the ones I encountered as a youngster, but they nevertheless left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. I felt completely rejected by Punjabi people and since I left home to go to college, I tried my best to steer clear of them. I am aware of how paradoxical this all is: a man who is proud to be a Sikh and will not change his appearance or lifestyle to assimilate into "mainstream America", and yet feels uncomfortable around other Sikhs and does his best to avoid them.

Your from Cali and you couldn't find any Sardar kids to hang out with? Cali has the largest Sikh population out of any state in the US. I've never even heard of sehajdhari apne giving sardar kids a hard time.

[californiasardar1]

Can we stop with the low self-esteem posts?

If you are sardar, and you can't get a girl, then there is something wrong with you and it isn't your turban. I will see guys at gurdwara. They type that look like they tied their dastar in the dark, their beard is totally untamed, they dress like they don't give a damn, and they probably have never set foot in a gym. Those are the guys that complain that girls don't like sardars. No mate, they just don't like YOU.

I've seen plenty of sardars who get girls. Non-Sikh as well as Sikh girls. The girls that fall out of pubs in the wee hours of the morning probably don't like sardars, but you know what? GOOD RIDDANCE!

I'm not one of those out of shape guys who dresses like he doesn't care. You'll just have to trust me on that (I have nothing to gain by lying about it on a website like this).

As I said in my post, most of my efforts have been online. I'm sure there are many things "wrong" with me. I'm not perfect. But nobody would even know about those things if they don't talk to me. I'm pretty sure my inability to find anyone willing to talk to me online is mostly due to having a turban.

Where are you from? Perhaps the situation is different wherever you live.

[californiasardar1]

Your from Cali and you couldn't find any Sardar kids to hang out with? Cali has the largest Sikh population out of any state in the US. I've never even heard of sehajdhari apne giving sardar kids a hard time.

It all depends on which part of California you are from. I'm not from the places you are probably thinking of. When I was growing up, there were a few keshdari kids at the local gurdwara, but the vast majority cut their hair.

[Jonny101]

I completely understand where you're coming from. Sikh girls are probably one of the main reasons why Sikh boys/men cut their hair. When I was in high school, I remember all my friends cutting their hairs mainly because of girls. Then if that wasn't enough they would encourage each other to cut hair as if it is the cool thing to do. I myself was under so much peer pressure to cut my hair from my so called friends, but thanks to Guru jee's kirpa I was spared this disgraceful act. Strangely my Hindu and Muslim friends never had a problem with me keeping my kesh. In fact, a Muslim friend of mine used to always tell me never to cut my hair like the other Sikh boys did. While Sikh girls don't like keshadhari Sikhs. I had seen sardar Sikhs who had no problem attracting attention from Hindu and Muslim girls.

I had a mona friend recently. He wanted to keep his kesh, but was scared that if he kept his kesh he would not be able to find a so called "Sikh" girl to marry him. So he made a plan to keep his kesh after marriage. He married a so called Sikh girl who specifically asked for a clean shaven Sikh boy in her matrimonial ad. He married her late last year and three months later kept his kesh. He says his wife has no problem with his decision.

Another case of another friend of mine. His elder brother who was a tall, athletic and highly educated was rejected by a girl who said she will only marry him if he is clean shaven. She ended up marrying a mona who is a truck driver, drinker and is not exactly a good looking guy either. This id iot "Sikh" girl rejected a good looking sardar who was tall and athletic and highly educated for the complete opposite.

Sikh girls in the west are mostly a hopeless case. I would suggest any veer here to go to India and marry a traditional Punjabi Sikh woman. They are great wives and will be great mothers to your children.

[SarabhaPanjab]

There has been so many of these types of posts, its getting embarrassing.

This is what I think...

its not a pro-Gurmat view for which i apologise in advance. But I think its about time it needs to be said.

Women generally are geared up through evolution to mate with a partner most likely to provide for them, i.e. the protector and caretaker.

There are many physiological studies to support this.

In addition to this, (please google this if you require proof) in a study they asked women what they found most attractive in the opposite sex - the quality "standing up for what he believes in" came top.. i.e. men who stood for what they believe in.. its a form of aphrodisiac, they did studies on men doing passionate speeches etc and they were scored by women.

I know a fair few singhs, from my experience the ones who made reps for themselves , who carried themselves in colleges and unis had no problem getting married. infact rishtay came to them. The 50/50 guys, who didn't know if they coming or going, who didn't ever stand for a cause or get into a scrap.. typical fairy singhs... they are the ones who had trouble finding a girl.

There was a point in the 80's when girls in Panjab only wanted to marry karku singhs.. doesn't that fit in with the studies mentioned above? Now that we have moved from karku singhs to fairy singhs we have problems... what does that say?

I would say one thing though, there are guys who get many rishtay but find it very difficult to find a girl who stands up for what she believes in too. too many insecure penji's too.

bottom line is 90% of this mona vs singh argument is in the mind. if it was true half these mona's wouldn't be crying over girls either. it's YOUR personal qualities that's not attractive.. sorry, its the truth.

Fix up, train, stand up for what you believe in, don't be pervy and you got no problems.

[SinghSabha]

I'm not one of those out of shape guys who dresses like he doesn't care. You'll just have to trust me on that (I have nothing to gain by lying about it on a website like this).

I'm pretty sure my inability to find anyone willing to talk to me online is mostly due to having a turban.

Right...that's why there are loads of girls who specifically ask for gursikh or amritdhari guys on those matrimonial sites.

It all depends on which part of California you are from. I'm not from the places you are probably thinking of. When I was growing up, there were a few keshdari kids at the local gurdwara, but the vast majority cut their hair.

California is full of apne. I have family there. I have a hard time believing that Sikhs with cut hair would abuse you to the point where you are mentally scarred for life. Yeah right.

While Sikh girls don't like keshadhari Sikhs

My clueless friend, plenty of Sikh girls only look for gursikh men.

He married a so called Sikh girl who specifically asked for a clean shaven Sikh boy in her matrimonial ad

Why didn't he go for the Sikh girls who are specifically asking for a gursikh boy in their matrimonial ad?

Sikh girls in the west are mostly a hopeless case.

Really? And here I thought they were the most educated and qualified ones. Go figure...

Admin jeo, remember when I said certain people are only on our forum to make mischief? LOL

[californiasardar1]

I completely understand where you're coming from. Sikh girls are probably one of the main reasons why Sikh boys/men cut their hair. When I was in high school, I remember all my friends cutting their hairs mainly because of girls. Then if that wasn't enough they would encourage each other to cut hair as if it is the cool thing to do. I myself was under so much peer pressure to cut my hair from my so called friends, but thanks to Guru jee's kirpa I was spared this disgraceful act. Strangely my Hindu and Muslim friends never had a problem with me keeping my kesh. In fact, a Muslim friend of mine used to always tell me never to cut my hair like the other Sikh boys did. While Sikh girls don't like keshadhari Sikhs. I had seen sardar Sikhs who had no problem attracting attention from Hindu and Muslim girls.

I had a mona friend recently. He wanted to keep his kesh, but was scared that if he kept his kesh he would not be able to find a so called "Sikh" girl to marry him. So he made a plan to keep his kesh after marriage. He married a so called Sikh girl who specifically asked for a clean shaven Sikh boy in her matrimonial ad. He married her late last year and three months later kept his kesh. He says his wife has no problem with his decision.

I have to admit that such an idea (cutting my hair to find a wife and then regrowing it after marriage) has crossed my mind. However, while it sounds like a plan which would allow me to end up with everything I want at the end, I don't think I could bring myself to do it. I can easily imagine myself being punished for such an act by being unable to find a woman even after cutting my hair and stripping myself of my dignity in the process.

Another case of another friend of mine. His elder brother who was a tall, athletic and highly educated was rejected by a girl who said she will only marry him if he is clean shaven. She ended up marrying a mona who is a truck driver, drinker and is not exactly a good looking guy either. This id iot "Sikh" girl rejected a good looking sardar who was tall and athletic and highly educated for the complete opposite.

Sikh girls in the west are mostly a hopeless case. I would suggest any veer here to go to India and marry a traditional Punjabi Sikh woman. They are great wives and will be great mothers to your children.

Going to India is an option that I am going to have to stay open to, I realize. However, it's really not what I want. Growing up in America, you often end up wanting something different out of marriage than you would growing up in India. I want to find someone who I have chemistry with. I think it's difficult to find such a person going to India for a number of reasons:

1. You don't get a chance to spend a lot of time with the person before marriage and see if you click with them.

2. To whatever extent you do get to know the girl, it's hard to tell how sincerely she is presenting herself. A lot of people in India are willing to do anything to come to America, and are unlikely to be open and straightforward about who they are.

3. There are naturally going to be big cultural barriers between a person who has lived in America his whole life and a person who has lived in India her whole life.

In any case, if matrimonials are any indication, the clean-shaven preference is just about as prevalent in India as it is here. However, a girl who'd otherwise only be open to a clean-shaven guy might consider a turbanned guy if it allowed her to go to America. It would be sad if I had to rely on that, but that's what it might come to.

(Note: I do not intend any of my above comments to be sexist. Men in India are just as dishonest and insincere when it comes to possibly marrying a girl from the west.)

[Jonny101]

My clueless friend, plenty of Sikh girls only look for gursikh men.

I'm not your friend and you can keep your name calling to yourself. Plenty of Sikh girls maybe looking or Sikh men, but not everyone has sangat of Gursikhs or families that have girls available that want Keshadhari Sikh men for marriage.

Why didn't he go for the Sikh girls who are specifically asking for a gursikh boy in their matrimonial ad?

The reason is because he wanted to keep his kesh, but all the marriage proposals were asking for clean shaven. So he made it a point to marry such a girl who was asking for a clean shaven man for marriage so he can show that girl that he is no different as a husband whether he was a Sardar or clean shaven.

Really? And here I thought they were the most educated and qualified ones. Go figure...

You figured it wrong. They are largely a hopeless case in connection to their dislike for Keshadari Sikhs not in terms of education.

Admin jeo, remember when I said certain people are only on our forum to make mischief? LOL

Yes, admin should take note of such people

cough.. cough.... SinghSabha