Why Do Ppl Cut Their Hair N Follow Sikhi

[DalbirSingh 188]

Before i get into this post. I want to say I am not trying to disapprove that Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj is the Guru. The posters DalbirSingh and Consciousness have been spreading manmat on this thread and have bad mouthing posters that go on Gurmat. Manmat means a person who takes anything in life and then uses his understanding of life to say one practice is right or wrong for him or others. With the above pankti, that the poster DalbirSingh posted, i'm demostrate how toxic manmat is because even by posting the above pankti, DalbirSingh is still using manmat; as he is attaching his understanding to Gurbani. In the above pankti we can clearly see that it says Bani is the Guru and not Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru. Remember before Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj gave Guruship to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, Maharaj was refered to as Adi Granth. Without Rehat you can't call Adi Granth Guru because only Rehat tells us Adi Granth is Guru. So in order to use this pankti, the poster DalbirSingh first has to establish that Adi Granth contains Bani in it. Since the poster DalbirSingh likes using manmat, let's use it against him now. He wants to put everything in rational thought (logic here means to put in perspective of DalbirSingh understanding, after all he thinks his mat is higher than Gurmat). So then it would be right to say, we can't use a claim in a source to say what it is. There needs to be outside evidence to say it is what it states to be. Tomorrow DalbirSingh will claim that he is God, do we all of a sudden start calling him God? (Again using DalbirSIngh manmat against him to show how toxic manmat is and by his own logic, he can't use that as evidence) So by the poster DalbirSingh's own rational thought (or so called rational thought), he cannot use that pankti or any other pankti in Adi Granth, since it is not an outside source. Instead of making DalbirSingh think of an argument i'll give him a hand here. DalbirSingh can come back and say to me that he has faith that Adi Granth is the Guru. Fair enough, but this contradicts his own thinking because faith requires a person to leave "rational" thought and trust based on judgment what is "rational". Let's ask how much faith he has that Adi Granth is the Guru? Since by his own post, he implied that he doesn't need a outside source (that's why he posted the pankti by itself), it's fair to say that it's all faith and he has no rational though going into saying Adi Granth is the Guru. By his manmat (he calls it rational thought, but we just saw how rational it really is) DalbirSingh has destroyed his stand to even have a argument.

One thing is forsure and I'll give him the answer, so he doesn't think i'm hiding anything. IF DalbirSingh presents an outside source, then it can be only the one i have said, where we only know because of this reason that Adi Granth is the Guru. And this source is Rehat. But DalbirSIngh don't present this source because then you just wasted your time proving yourself wrong.

So if anyone else want to give DalbirSingh a hand by using their manmat, then please do so because he at this point has no argument.

Speaking in general....Manmat is very toxic and needs to be abandoned when you step into Sikhi. There is only one mat that can pass the test and that will get you to Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj. Learn Gurmat, memorize Gurmat, and practice Gurmat, then you will meet Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj. When the Guru says keep hair uncut then listen and slowly you will attain mat (understanding) of the Guru and then for this practice you can claim i follow Gurmat, my Guru's path.

Manmat is a chain of those to follow desires of a lower form rather then the guru, I am doing a veechar on a form of understanding from guru sahib not necessarily the coherent one but right now majority samprayadas and jathas contradict themselves on the basic. It was in the singh sabha revolution the kurehits were listed down and the defintions of kesh stated some people tried to say beard is not a part of kesh or armpit hair or chest hair it was latter decided after many debates and meetings the standard defintion. What I am saying is it is not stated in guru granth sahib fully and explicitly. Go to a giani ask them what "budhi" means, what "man" means and what "mat" means and what are the differences. You use budhi not man in understanding any katha.

The debate of shabad guru is still used by namdharis and radhaswamis but we have some other evidence for that from credible sources, in guru nanak dev ji janamsakhi he said shabad is guru all the gurus have accepted that and guru granth sahib states it.

As for me being God, mate you seriously are confused between Islam and Sikhism. Islam says you can't be god no way possible it is shirk. Guru Sahib tells you God is everywhere, within you and you can meet him in union, God is inside of you at the point of mukhti you will see him everywhere, you are god within you atma lies deep within parmatma. As for muslims they don't understand this themselves the quran preach omnipresence it says allah is to the east as he is to the west. Why follow people who are spiritually blind themselves.

Page 51, Line 18

ਸਭ ਹੀ ਮਧਿ ਸਭਹਿ ਤੇ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਬੇਮੁਹਤਾਜ ਬਾਪਾ ॥੨॥

सभ ही मधि सभहि ते बाहरि बेमुहताज बापा ॥२॥

Sabẖ hī maḏẖ sabẖėh ṯe bāhar bemuhṯāj bāpā. ||2||

Inside of all, and outside of all, You are our Self-sufficient Father. ||2||

Guru Arjan Dev

Page 80, Line 1

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਸਰਬਤਿ ਰਵਿਆ ਮਨਿ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਬਿਸੁਆਸੋ ॥

अंतरि बाहरि सरबति रविआ मनि उपजिआ बिसुआसो ॥

Anṯar bāhar sarbaṯ ravi▫ā man upji▫ā bisu▫āso.

Inside and out, He is pervading everywhere. Faith in Him has welled up within my mind.

Guru Arjan Dev

[DalbirSingh 188]

Your nonsensical answers are making it clear that you have no knowledge of Sikh beliefs.

The debate here is about Sikhs keeping their hair as per the Hukum of Guru Gobind Singh Ji

and you show your immaturity by writing,"However ask yourself next do you think only you will go to heaven

and the majority of the world who cuts their hair will go to hell and burn and reincarnate

until they are born in your family. Or for cutting their hair all christians, hindus, muslims, jews, buddhist

will reincarnate to various stages of animals and you need to save them."

This clearly shows that you are a pakhandi or a pretender who is just being a clown on a Sikh forum.

This fact is further proven beyond any doubt whatsoever when you write," if not cutting your hair is following his hukam and will why do you cut your nails then?"

Well it seems you can't debate the issue further it is outside of your knowledge set so you have resulted to insults like a little baby. If one day you do understand it come back. Wearing a bana running around like a school girl saying you are a sant sipha doesn't give you mukhti.

[Consciousness 161]

Before i get into this post. I want to say I am not trying to disapprove that Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj is the Guru. The posters DalbirSingh and Consciousness have been spreading manmat on this thread and have bad mouthing posters that go on Gurmat. Manmat means a person who takes anything in life and then uses his understanding of life to say one practice is right or wrong for him or others. With the above pankti, that the poster DalbirSingh posted, i'm demostrate how toxic manmat is because even by posting the above pankti, DalbirSingh is still using manmat; as he is attaching his understanding to Gurbani. In the above pankti we can clearly see that it says Bani is the Guru and not Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru. Remember before Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj gave Guruship to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, Maharaj was refered to as Adi Granth. Without Rehat you can't call Adi Granth Guru because only Rehat tells us Adi Granth is Guru. So in order to use this pankti, the poster DalbirSingh first has to establish that Adi Granth contains Bani in it. Since the poster DalbirSingh likes using manmat, let's use it against him now. He wants to put everything in rational thought (logic here means to put in perspective of DalbirSingh understanding, after all he thinks his mat is higher than Gurmat). So then it would be right to say, we can't use a claim in a source to say what it is. There needs to be outside evidence to say it is what it states to be. Tomorrow DalbirSingh will claim that he is God, do we all of a sudden start calling him God? (Again using DalbirSIngh manmat against him to show how toxic manmat is and by his own logic, he can't use that as evidence) So by the poster DalbirSingh's own rational thought (or so called rational thought), he cannot use that pankti or any other pankti in Adi Granth, since it is not an outside source. Instead of making DalbirSingh think of an argument i'll give him a hand here. DalbirSingh can come back and say to me that he has faith that Adi Granth is the Guru. Fair enough, but this contradicts his own thinking because faith requires a person to leave "rational" thought and trust based on judgment what is "rational". Let's ask how much faith he has that Adi Granth is the Guru? Since by his own post, he implied that he doesn't need a outside source (that's why he posted the pankti by itself), it's fair to say that it's all faith and he has no rational though going into saying Adi Granth is the Guru. By his manmat (he calls it rational thought, but we just saw how rational it really is) DalbirSingh has destroyed his stand to even have a argument.

One thing is forsure and I'll give him the answer, so he doesn't think i'm hiding anything. IF DalbirSingh presents an outside source, then it can be only the one i have said, where we only know because of this reason that Adi Granth is the Guru. And this source is Rehat. But DalbirSIngh don't present this source because then you just wasted your time proving yourself wrong.

So if anyone else want to give DalbirSingh a hand by using their manmat, then please do so because he at this point has no argument.

Speaking in general....Manmat is very toxic and needs to be abandoned when you step into Sikhi. There is only one mat that can pass the test and that will get you to Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj. Learn Gurmat, memorize Gurmat, and practice Gurmat, then you will meet Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj. When the Guru says keep hair uncut then listen and slowly you will attain mat (understanding) of the Guru and then for this practice you can claim i follow Gurmat, my Guru's path.

Can you please not make this into a personal attack. Stay calm and learn how to write without throwing personal attacks. Are you the only one on this forum that knows Gurmat while everyone else is spreading manmat. Try to understand what Bhai Dalbir Singh Ji is writing without letting your emotions take the better of you.

[JSinghnz 1,086]

Well it seems you can't debate the issue further it is outside of your knowledge set so you have resulted to insults like a little baby. If one day you do understand it come back. Wearing a bana running around like a school girl saying you are a sant sipha doesn't give you mukhti.

Pakhandis like you will always remain in confusion and write meaningless stuff like,"Wearing a bana running around like a school girl "

One day when you grow up, you will realise how hollow you have been.

[Consciousness 161]

Who else real exist other than Gursikhs in this world? There is only God - nothing but him. That doesn't mean just there are gursikhs that are real anyone who practices the truth/naam are real (so can be muslims/ hindus etc) Tell us where in Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj it says Shabad Guru is the Guru? Sidh gost to the siddhs.. Also shabad guru/naam is mentioned on every ang. You only know Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj is the Guru because Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj told you and you only know Satguru told you because......wait for it....wait for it.....it's in Rehat. But don't stop listening to Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj instructions there. Put a big smile on your face, pat yourself on the back and say Satguru I accept your Rehat as well because you (Satguru) said Rehat is more dear to me than the Sikh. We all agree that we need Satguru to merge with Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj For a sikh it is Guru Sahib but for other religions it is their pooran Guru (their satguru) and from Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj are one and the same, with no distinguishing marks. Now Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj says if you want my (Satguru's) darshan then come to me with uncut hair and shastar (This goes to all the amritdhari sikhs that must keep hair and the 5 k's) otherwise you will not get my darshan. Since all the Guru's are one and the same then their teachinges are one and if you don't follow one Guru's instructions, Actually the Shri Guru Granth sahib is for everyone and every religion but the rehit is for the sikhs. then it is equally saying you have not followed the formers or latters instructions. To put it clearly, if you don't keep hair uncut and shastar then you will not get Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj's darshan. Yep, if an amritdhari sikh neglects the instructions given to him then he/she would face the consequences. I know a lot of you are going to say, what a fool only five is, i get Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj darshan everytime i go to the Gurdwara. I am the biggest fool and should be cleaning all your personal belongings, but darshan here means you will only merge with Satguru, if you come to Satguru with uncut hair and shastar. The instructions are clear, all we have to do is accept them, and Satguru will guide us to start practicing them.

I can read the Koran and have been reading it. But now does that mean i will go to paradise just like Muslims? s (Not all muslims believe in paradise lets take sufis as an e.g. they believe in dissolving of the ego and being one with God - same as sikhs as sachkand (because to get to sachkand one must have no ego) It is by reading, accepting all Hukams and practicing with love, humility and devotion will I become Satguru's Sikh.

When Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj came on to this world, there was no religion called Sikhi. Everyone was part of a different religion. So if a Muslim or Hindu can read Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and merge with God, then why didn't Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj leave his followers as Hindus, Muslims or whatever other religion the people came from? Because as God wills another religion is started.. If he wants to start another religion then so be it and it wouldn't prove sikhi wrong. Actually there are a lot of religions starting today that came after sikhi- so why would God do that.. because having more religions doesn't make other religions wrong. Instead Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj gave Charn Di Pahul to his followers and made them into Sikhs. Why did Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj say become a Sikh in Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Does it say anywhere in Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj that humans need to become Muslims or HIndus of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Also it doesn't talk about the identity of a sikh in sri guru granth sahib maharaj. But for amritdhari sikh or one who wants to take khanda batta the amrit then he must follow rehit. Why does it only say become the SIkh of the Guru? The guru is the shabad/naam and anyone from any religion who follows the shabad may it be raam, waheguru etc are a sikh of the shabad. Also why did Satguru say I am not a Muslim? He also said he is not an hindu also what he was trying to say was that there is only God - segregation by saying you are a muslim/hindu is false as we are all atma (no form pure nothingness/ consciousness) It is obvious the people that came from different religions left their previous religious practices and started following Sikhi, where they would start to keep hair uncut because Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj has instructed his followers too.

[innergear 35]

So u sayin risi knot help u meditate. Thans. Lookin @sum posts sum think tha keepi hair wil instanly get u the god

[KhalistaniGunMan 291]

So u sayin risi knot help u meditate. Thans. Lookin @sum posts sum think tha keepi hair wil instanly get u the god

what happened here...turned into a royal rumble...if your going to fight..atleast fight over something worthwhile...like chilli heatwave doritos lol

[DalbirSingh 188]

Pakhandis like you will always remain in confusion and write meaningless stuff like,"Wearing a bana running around like a school girl "

One day when you grow up, you will realise how hollow you have been.

Mate life is a process of growing all the time you learn all the time the same will happen to you.

But listen I didn't say Sikhi allows you to cut your hair, you asked the question I gave what people understand of it and why.

Now if someone misunderstands Sikhi we should have a friendly discussion. I have read so much nonsense about why keeping kesh like this magnet theory and many have ridiculed Sikhs for kesh especially the reasons for why, what so forth.

Kesh is mentioned in rehatnama as maryada. We don't really know fully why so people have written theories I have heard many of them but you need to go to the yogis and ask them why they keep kesh?

http://www.exoticind...siddhi_op89.jpg

Sadhu

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Rishi

http://antaryamin.fi...0/08/rishi3.jpg

http://farm3.staticf..._b8da2919ff.jpg

Our fav Ramdev

Jaggi Vasudev

[Only five 1,121]

The debate of shabad guru is still used by namdharis and radhaswamis but we have some other evidence for that from credible sources, in guru nanak dev ji janamsakhi he said shabad is guru all the gurus have accepted that and guru granth sahib states it.

I’m glad you recognize that you need an outside source to say Adi Granth is Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Yet i still see your manmat coming out by missing the point of proving Adi Granth has Bani in it, but atleast its a step forward from a deeper manmat stand then before. In no way do i hate you or am targeting you or the poster consciousness as the poster concsiousness is suggesting. What is being targeted is the manmat understanding of Sikhi, that you both present.

Manmat is a chain of those to follow desires of a lower form rather then the guru,

I guess i should have provided more detail when the definition of manmat was provided in my post. I assumed that you didn’t need the detailed definition since, you learn from people who you refer to as gyanis. Here it is and I’ll go through it phrase by phrase for you:

Manmat means a person - Straight forward, no further explanation needed

who takes anything in life – This is where i made bit of an assumption, so I apology for that. By this it is meant from being born to our last breath, we need to watch what we do and the reason behind it. For something to be in Gurmat the reason and action need to be approved by the Guru not just the action. Examples of this would be eating, drinking, clothing, where we go, who we go with, how we speak, etc

and then uses his understanding of life – The key word in this phrase is “his”. This is where i made the biggest assumption that you would understand what “his” means here. Again i apology for not being clear and causing you to think the definition is wrong. “His” is a identity mark that we create to define where the idea or understanding came from. Now put “his” in the context of Sikhi and “his” now identifies the ego of a person. Meaning the person has ego in them and this is causing the person to use “his” (in more detail: know to be the ego) understanding of life.......

to say one practice is right or wrong for him or others. – Last phrase here shows that the action is manmat because the person used his ego to come up with a reason to say a practice is right or wrong.

Many others also present manmat, even the side that accepts hair uncut is a Hukam for all Sikhs, but for some reason they and like minded poster like DalbirSingh and Consciousness want to give some made up reason behind keeping hair uncut. The link you gave to Dr. Sarbjeet Singh Sidhu also shows he does this, but he takes it further and complete slanders Gurmat. You providing that link implies you like his way of thinking/ideas (his manmat), which means you prefer to think in this way. One example would be saying look at how Bhai Taru Singh ji rather have his scalp cut, then let his hair be cut. This incident is in hindsight (Amrit was given in 1699 and Bhai Taru Singh incident happened later) and is not a reason for keeping hair uncut, but a proof of the reason, how important hair uncut is to Gurmukhs. I know many who believe in keeping hair uncut will object to this, but before you do. Ask yourself what was the reason for Bhai Taru Singh ji to keep hair uncut?

What I am saying is it is not stated in guru granth sahib fully and explicitly.

This is where I’m be frank with you. Do you understand all of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj? Obviously the answer is no you don’t understand all, if you did, then you would be a Brahmgyani. What you mean by your above sentence is that for you, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj does not explicitly state keeping hair uncut is a must. Again i’m be frank with you. Who made your understanding the highest? Last sentence and the most important sentence in my post. Start learning Sikhi from Brahmgyanis and your ego will be killed and the understanding that Rehat comes from Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj will come to you.

[S1ngh 1,885]

Request is to read Sikh Rehat Maryada. Sikh can't be a Sikh if he and she does not have unshorn hair. Born in sikh family but with hair cut are patits.

Amritdhari is the only one that basically meets the very basic definition of Sikh.

Time for the topic closure sangato....

[DalbirSingh 188]

I’m glad you recognize that you need an outside source to say Adi Granth is Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Yet i still see your manmat coming out by missing the point of proving Adi Granth has Bani in it, but atleast its a step forward from a deeper manmat stand then before. In no way do i hate you or am targeting you or the poster consciousness as the poster concsiousness is suggesting. What is being targeted is the manmat understanding of Sikhi, that you both present.

I guess i should have provided more detail when the definition of manmat was provided in my post. I assumed that you didn’t need the detailed definition since, you learn from people who you refer to as gyanis. Here it is and I’ll go through it phrase by phrase for you:

Manmat means a person - Straight forward, no further explanation needed

who takes anything in life – This is where i made bit of an assumption, so I apology for that. By this it is meant from being born to our last breath, we need to watch what we do and the reason behind it. For something to be in Gurmat the reason and action need to be approved by the Guru not just the action. Examples of this would be eating, drinking, clothing, where we go, who we go with, how we speak, etc

and then uses his understanding of life – The key word in this phrase is “his”. This is where i made the biggest assumption that you would understand what “his” means here. Again i apology for not being clear and causing you to think the definition is wrong. “His” is a identity mark that we create to define where the idea or understanding came from. Now put “his” in the context of Sikhi and “his” now identifies the ego of a person. Meaning the person has ego in them and this is causing the person to use “his” (in more detail: know to be the ego) understanding of life.......

to say one practice is right or wrong for him or others. – Last phrase here shows that the action is manmat because the person used his ego to come up with a reason to say a practice is right or wrong.

Many others also present manmat, even the side that accepts hair uncut is a Hukam for all Sikhs, but for some reason they and like minded poster like DalbirSingh and Consciousness want to give some made up reason behind keeping hair uncut. The link you gave to Dr. Sarbjeet Singh Sidhu also shows he does this, but he takes it further and complete slanders Gurmat. You providing that link implies you like his way of thinking/ideas (his manmat), which means you prefer to think in this way. One example would be saying look at how Bhai Taru Singh ji rather have his scalp cut, then let his hair be cut. This incident is in hindsight (Amrit was given in 1699 and Bhai Taru Singh incident happened later) and is not a reason for keeping hair uncut, but a proof of the reason, how important hair uncut is to Gurmukhs. I know many who believe in keeping hair uncut will object to this, but before you do. Ask yourself what was the reason for Bhai Taru Singh ji to keep hair uncut?

This is where I’m be frank with you. Do you understand all of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj? Obviously the answer is no you don’t understand all, if you did, then you would be a Brahmgyani. What you mean by your above sentence is that for you, Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj does not explicitly state keeping hair uncut is a must. Again i’m be frank with you. Who made your understanding the highest? Last sentence and the most important sentence in my post. Start learning Sikhi from Brahmgyanis and your ego will be killed and the understanding that Rehat comes from Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj will come to you.

Your definition of manmat and gutmat are wrong go open another thread ask everyone what it is... You are allowing your ignorance of understanding gurmat make you manmat if anything your spreading manmat yourself. Guru maharaj teaches you don't do nindya and you do it again and again that is manmat. Sorry if you think your the only gurmukh and going to heaven while everyone will burn but you are not understanding why? Mate we are not muslims, in which everything is do and don't do like the 10 commandments there are certain things which gurbani doesn't state but it gives you the paths of understandings i.e. the perfect teacher. Gurbani doesn't tell you how to set your alarm clock or how to use your phone, gurbani doesn't tell you to wear nike shoes or check out girls or to subscribe to a certain broadband package. If you say it does your using manmat as you said and not gurmat. We all know it is Sikh rehat maryada to keep kesh, however do you think someone becomes a Sikh in one day?

Do you know what sahjadhari means? Sahjadhari is an understanding of someone looking to try and become the full thing one day it is a process of learning and organic growth. If you chase after a sajhadhari saying they are not a sikh they might go to another religion. If you don't love and embrace others how to expect them to become a Sikh. You need to look in the mirror and look at your own flaws before you say this guy ain't sikh they ain't sikh and everyone is doing manmat like muslims shout kaffir kaffir kuffr... You talk like a taliban extremist nutter take a chill pill your a singh read bani and understand it properly. You got a lot of growing up to do.

I have told your guru granth sahib doesn't explicity state don't cut your hair but it doesn't mean you can't.

You know there is a world beyond binary logic of Yes and No. Absolute logic is one means of thought compared to relative logic. Muslims, jews and christians think and practice in binary logic.

An example is 2 + 2= 4 and 2 + 2 does not = 5 only the first is right second is wrong.

Relative fuzzy logic

1+ 1= 2 and 1+ 1 = 11 now if you think in binary logic only the first is right. However both statements are right in base 10 the first statement is right and in base 2 (binary) is right. Now with the assumption of base is given, say both are base 1 then both statements are false.

Basically not everything is black and white there is a gray region.

And for you that does not mean everything is Manmat and Gurmat or Believer and non-believer (kaffir). The muslims are wrong about this one go and tell your friends as well.

There is more then right and wrong, what do you do when you have to choose between 2 evils which one is right? These dilemmas come all the time.

There are stages between manmat and gurmat it takes time to develop to a gursikh, you need to learn and grow just like the end of japji teaches there are various khands, dharam khand, and the best is sach khand.

[Only five 1,121]

Your definition of manmat and gutmat are wrong go open another thread ask everyone what it is... You are allowing your ignorance of understanding gurmat make you manmat if anything your spreading manmat yourself. Guru maharaj teaches you don't do nindya and you do it again and again that is manmat. Sorry if you think your the only gurmukh and going to heaven while everyone will burn but you are not understanding why? Mate we are not muslims, in which everything is do and don't do like the 10 commandments there are certain things which gurbani doesn't state but it gives you the paths of understandings i.e. the perfect teacher. Gurbani doesn't tell you how to set your alarm clock or how to use your phone, gurbani doesn't tell you to wear nike shoes or check out girls or to subscribe to a certain broadband package. If you say it does your using manmat as you said and not gurmat. We all know it is Sikh rehat maryada to keep kesh, however do you think someone becomes a Sikh in one day?

Do you know what sahjadhari means? Sahjadhari is an understanding of someone looking to try and become the full thing one day it is a process of learning and organic growth. If you chase after a sajhadhari saying they are not a sikh they might go to another religion. If you don't love and embrace others how to expect them to become a Sikh. You need to look in the mirror and look at your own flaws before you say this guy ain't sikh they ain't sikh and everyone is doing manmat like muslims shout kaffir kaffir kuffr... You talk like a taliban extremist nutter take a chill pill your a singh read bani and understand it properly. You got a lot of growing up to do.

I have told your guru granth sahib doesn't explicity state don't cut your hair but it doesn't mean you can't.

You know there is a world beyond binary logic of Yes and No. Absolute logic is one means of thought compared to relative logic. Muslims, jews and christians think and practice in binary logic.

An example is 2 + 2= 4 and 2 + 2 does not = 5 only the first is right second is wrong.

Relative fuzzy logic

1+ 1= 2 and 1+ 1 = 11 now if you think in binary logic only the first is right. However both statements are right in base 10 the first statement is right and in base 2 (binary) is right. Now with the assumption of base is given, say both are base 1 then both statements are false.

Basically not everything is black and white there is a gray region.

And for you that does not mean everything is Manmat and Gurmat or Believer and non-believer (kaffir). The muslims are wrong about this one go and tell your friends as well.

There is more then right and wrong, what do you do when you have to choose between 2 evils which one is right? These dilemmas come all the time.

There are stages between manmat and gurmat it takes time to develop to a gursikh, you need to learn and grow just like the end of japji teaches there are various khands, dharam khand, and the best is sach khand.

So much of a discussion with a person who is full of negative emotions and the whole post is filled with accusation without merit. What is there left to discuss with you now! Nothing So I have nothing to add to what i wrote before. One thing i will say is that i never did nindiya, it's your way to drag other non issues here so everything gets side tracked.

You have your views and i'm keep learning from Gurmukhs. This keeps both of us happy. No need to get upset because deep down you think your right and what i say can't harm you. You slander me throughout your post by calling me a Muslim and fanatic and do you see me getting upset. Rationally i would be the upset one and you calm. So take a deep breath and keep doing what you think is right and i'm keep listening to Gurmukhs katha on Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and keep follow Rehat Maryada. Again we are both happy.

[luckysingh99 1,197]

Dalbirsingh Ji

There is no reason to be that aggressive and accusative.

Being humble is a quality that we all have to focus on.

Nimrata or humility is a virtue that is heavily mentioned in the Guru granth sahib.

We all , even in times of rage should try and be forgiving and humble.

It takes alot of effort and time for someone to gain almost complete humility. Living the gurmat way and adhering to the teachings in the bani helps us to achieve this along with conquering our Ego.

With regards to the original question about a person with cut hair.

Know someone with cut hair still has the right to call themself a follower of sikhi but not as much as someone baptised (amritdhari), who is living in the image of the khalsa and hence Guru Gobind Singh.

However that amrithdhari or infact anyone NEVER gains the status to judge anyone.

Only God is the TRUE JUDGE.

Now, tell me who is most likely to become one with God. 1) A baptised Sikh (amrithdhari) who is running a gossip column in a newspaper and continuosly making jokes and dabbs at others. -In effect he does hurt these guys feelings even though they may have done something outrageous to be mocked at.

2) A learning Sikh who is not baptised and still has cut hair, eats meat but this person at heart- never ever trys to mock,insult, mickey take anyone as he doesn't wish to hurt anyones feelings.

He works below the guy running the gossip column. The Sikh in (1) above also makes jokes and jibes at this guy who he feels is beneath him as he has no kesh.

Like I say we don't have any right to judge, but it seems that if the world came to an end at once and both guys died, I reckon the one with the cut hair is going to stand a better chance of being ONE with GOD.

Gurfateh

[DalbirSingh 188]

So much of a discussion with a person who is full of negative emotions and the whole post is filled with accusation without merit. What is there left to discuss with you now! Nothing So I have nothing to add to what i wrote before. One thing i will say is that i never did nindiya, it's your way to drag other non issues here so everything gets side tracked.

You have your views and i'm keep learning from Gurmukhs. This keeps both of us happy. No need to get upset because deep down you think your right and what i say can't harm you. You slander me throughout your post by calling me a Muslim and fanatic and do you see me getting upset. Rationally i would be the upset one and you calm. So take a deep breath and keep doing what you think is right and i'm keep listening to Gurmukhs katha on Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and keep follow Rehat Maryada. Again we are both happy.

You know in the time of the Misls the bhangi sardars felt consuming bhang was gurmat and they wouldn't see anyone elses point, then other sardars felt eating meat was while other said being veggeterian is gurmat. Only Guru can say what is and what isn't,

If one guy kept kesh killed masses and raped women say kps gill and someone like mother teresa who helped people all over who were struggling in life are you going to tell me kps gill is going to heaven and mother teresa going nerag for helping all those people and not keeping kesh? Well I am sorry if you think I am negative and you are the most positive person in the world, since you can only be the best person the whole world has seen right.

If there is anything I can prescribe it would be memorise Guru Granth Sahib everyone from every religion in high numbers have memorised there books look at christians and muslims who know everything out of there own holy books. The only way to memorise guru granth sahib is to read it again, and again and again. Read it for yourself at least from first ang to the last 1430 from start to finish at least once. Do yourself a favour do it little by little, complete japji sahib go to sri raag make your way all the way to guru tegh bahadur mahal 9 and raag mala. It is not hard then quote again and again. Then you can question translations go to mahan kosh understand bhai gurdas ji vaaran, kabit swaiye, rehat marayda, dasam granth, suraj prakash and janamsakhis. Now the authenticity of the rehatnama are put to question people question did people keep kesh before guru gobind singh if you don't know the texts how are you going to argue it. You need to know all these scriptures and gurbani in depth there is no point calling this and that pakhand, kuffar, bedbi and manmat if you don't understand the spirtual contemplation and the nature of it. Read Guru Granth Sahib you owe it to yourself. It has never been so easy to as it is in our generation go to http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?S=y