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Bhagat Kabir Ji Da Janam Diwas


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You're really serious about this aren't you? I thought you were pulling my leg...

100% Paji. Study the demographic composition of our Panth before a certain Mangu Ram came on to the scene. Try to extrapolate what the Sikh percentage in Punjab will be in the 2021 census in India. And then you'll see why this an issue we need to take very seriously. And we need to have the debate about how semantics are critical to a pragmatic response. It was even relevant to us in the UK 2011 census.

Think of what it would mean if Sikhs amounted to less than half the population of Punjab in 2021? We are already a minority in Doaba. Paji check on youtube the utter hatred with which we as Sikhs are thought of by our "brothers" thanks to Indira + her cronies. It will surprise you and I'm guessing your family isn't originally from Doaba, right?

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I just can't understand how we can waste our energies on a non-issue.

Why do so people try to reinvent the wheel.

There is absolutely no need to for ask, demand or ruminate on such trivial matters.

Bro it's not a non-issue in Doaba or Punjab or indeed the UK. I think because the NZ Sangat is relatively small the community is thankfully united over there ... but there are serious divides in the above areas and we need to tackle these issues and you Kiwi's need to be very watchful that Gurdwaray remain united over there in NZ

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Bro it's not a non-issue in Doaba or Punjab or indeed the UK. I think because the NZ Sangat is relatively small the community is thankfully united over there ... but there are serious divides in the above areas and we need to tackle these issues and you Kiwi's need to be very watchful that Gurdwaray remain united over there in NZ

Bro, we cannot get unity in the Panth by giving new titles to our saints. Each one of us who considers himself a Sikh

have to play a part in this. For example, we should have zero tolerance to the caste system.

If anyone dares to ask my caste, I give a suitable reply which he never forgets in his whole life.

We need to bring that courage and pride to be only Sikhs and not a Sikh with stigma of caste attached to us.

Thanks for your well wishes for New Zealand Sikhs.

You young guys in UK too should try to break the shackles of this divisive, anti -Sikh caste system.

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Bro, we cannot get unity in the Panth by giving new titles to our saints. Each one of us who considers himself a Sikh

have to play a part in this. For example, we should have zero tolerance to the caste system.

If anyone dares to ask my caste, I give a suitable reply which he never forgets in his whole life.

We need to bring that courage and pride to be only Sikhs and not a Sikh with stigma of caste attached to us.

Thanks for your well wishes for New Zealand Sikhs.

You young guys in UK too should try to break the shackles of this divisive, anti -Sikh caste system.

forgets in hi swhole life.

In essence I do agree with you. Theoretically, we should not have to change historical terms of respectful address for our Bhagats in the SGGS Ji whom we daily bow down to. But our enemies have escalated the situation to such an extent that nowadays offence is taken at (particularly) Ravidas Ji Maharaj being termed a Bhagat and hence why I suggested that we need to formulate an appropriate response. I know that NZ is seen as the easy touch of the usual countries to emigrate to ... so I do expect the Sikh population there to quite possibly double over there within the next 10 years perhaps. It's very important that you guys avoid the disgraceful situation we have over here in the UK and sadly pinda vich. But good to know that you give the jaath-paath wale an appropriate response! :-)

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From Panthic/Ishat point of view- Kabir maharaj is bhagat ji as there is only one satguru in Sikh Panth which is satguru nanak dev ji in its all eleven forms.

However, from adhyatam and gurmat advait point of view- kabir ji fully merged with nirankar/satguru/vahiguroo (whatever you want to call it) and became vahiguroo roop. Kabir maharaj was nirgun upasakh and bhramgyani, he only beleived in kaival mukhti and lost its wajood in parbhram vahiguroo rather than groups who beleive in(4 or 5 different type mukhti). So it will be not only unfair but also contary to Gurmat to bind bhramgyani who have merged with nirankar and left its chola, bind him with even notion of dvait(duality) by suggesting its blampheous to call bhramgyani vahiguroo/nirankar/satguru.

Bhramgyani aap nirankar ||

As i said earlier, from panthic/ishat point of views we must keep sancity around label of satguru with no exceptions to uphold Sikh Gurmat Sidhant but at the back of head also maintain advait(non duality) when it comes to bhramgyani especially bhagats in sri guru granth sahib ji.

As always, Good post Veer Jee. While you are right that when one goes deeper since Brahmgiani is Vaheguru then they are one and same. But when Guru jee included their Bani in the Aad Bir, the Gurus did not refer to the Bhagats as Satguru. They were still called Bhagats, and that is the status they hold in the Sikh Panth.

The Bhagats hold a very high status within the Panth. Their Banis, Sakhis are done veechar of by Sikhs. Even many Sikhs go on a pilgrimage to places associated with the Bhagats all over India. Since they hold such a high status for the Sikhs, I don't understand why they should be renamed as Guru or Satguru as if we are giving them a promotion.

Today in India millions of people follow the Path of the Bhagats. SGPC, Sant Samaj, Jathabandis all need to make a coordinated effort and do Parchar to these distant cousins of ours.

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I agree with most of your post jonny veer. Whilst we should definitely reach out to our cousins, appreciate them and make more bridge to them but i am not too sure about parchar to kabir panthis as they very much on kabir panthi path (advait nirgunvadd pretty similiar to gurmat advait) as they believe in teaching of pooran bhramgyani - bhagat kabir ji. I can understand where you coming from missionary point of view but when you look at spiritual angle- its probably not needed as real unity is in diversity in Gurmat...i mean there are other alternatives - instead of spending resources on missionary work or unintentionally coming across an supremacist/elitist infront of kabir panthis by expecting them to change.. may be we can redefine singh sabha definition of Sikh...this is where puratan samparda's and singh sabha mindset clash on paths...i am sure one day they can work out underlining issues in the panth.

I will end my post with sant jagjit singh ji harkhowal audio on gurmat is anadi.

Gurmat is anadi.mp3

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One important quality of Satguru is the authority to give Naam. Only Satguru can give/activate naam. Bhagat Kabir ji recieved naam through charun-pahul amrit from Guru Nanak Dev ji.

We can only attach the word Satguru to 10 Guru sahiban and Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Guru has a distinct status within Gurmat. We need to remember that it was Guru Nanak Dev ji who had the great and distinct honour of receiving Naam directly from Sachkhand. Also they bought dhur ki bani to the world. It was only through Satguru (Guru Nanak Dev ji) that bhagat Kabir ji uttered Gurbani.

Gursikhs have upmost satkar for all bhagats whose bani is in Guru Granth Sahib ji.

The vadiaee (greatness) of bhagat Kabir ji is beyond comprehension. They are the bhagat who have most bani in Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Dhan Dhan bhagat Kabir ji!

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