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Well I have seen alot of guys believing absolute myths about Pakistan... So , as probably the only person on this forum with Pakistani Muslim background , I would like to say few things...

First thing Sikhs should understand is this ...

Pakistan is the most "pro-Sikh" state in whole South Asia ....

Sikhs in Pakistan have full rights..they work as doctors , policemen , engineers , pharmacists , technicians , politicians , singers , and even as Army officers !

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan treats Sikhs with outmost respect...

Comparison between India and Pakistan when it comes to Sikhs :

There are few things I'd like to point-out... Read and decide it for yourself......

1-Pakistan recognize "Sikhism" as completely separate , independent , and unique religion...While India doesn't even recognize Sikhism. Sikhism is a mere 'branch of Hinduism' under Indian constitution...

2- In Pakistan , Sikhs have their own separate "marriage act" for decades now and they marry as "Sikh" on 'Sikh marriage forum' ...Whereas in India..Indian state didn't give Sikhs any marriage act..Sikhs married , throughout Indian history , on "Hindu marriage forums" ...

3- Pakistani state NEVER persecuted Sikhs or even touched their holy sites... Do I even need to mention what Indian state did in 1984?

All these things are the reasons due to which Pakistani Sikhs consider themselves lucky that they left in Pakistani Punjab and didn't go to Indian Punjab...

Listen it from the mouth of Sikhs themselves...

See how Pakistani state care for its Sikh citizens..When terrorists killed two Sikhs (Others were saved by Pakistan Army!) ... Pakistan's deputy attorney general cleaned shoes of Sikhs in Amritsar , Golden Temple , Pakistan Gurdwaras etc ...

"Pakistan's deputy attorney-general is to clean the shoes of thousands of devotees at India's Golden Temple in Amritsar in 'penance' for the beheading of a Sikh in Peshawar two years ago.

After spending several hours polishing the shoes of worshippers at Gurdwara Sisganj in New Delhi on Monday, where he was part of a Pakistan Supreme Court Bar Association delegation, Muhammad Khurshid Khan left for Amritsar, home of the Golden Temple and the centre of the Sikh religion, to clean thousands more."

http://www.telegraph...den-Temple.html

Now compare that treatment with Indian state's treatment of Sikhs?

In the light of all this... I request members to give your insight....What do you think about Pakistan? What do you think about Pakistani Punjab and Punjabi people residing in Pakistan? Why you dislike Pakistan? Why you like Pakistan?

Lets have a friendly discussion here...May be we can learn alot from eachother and remove our misconceptions about eachother...Afterall , we are the sons of same land...same Punjab!

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Guys let's not get into the India vs Pakistan debate. At the end of the day the creation of Pakistan was a disaster for Sikhs. We lost our best lands as well as our historic Gurdwaras. India has kille

Anyone claiming that the Sikhs started the partition violence and the Muslims were just on the receiving end is either grossly ignorant or someone with an agenda. You said that you will not challenge

India didn't break East Pakistan, West Pakistan did, when it tried to force its culture and language on a people that clearly didn't want it. It wasnt the Indians that did this, nor did the indians tr

Pakistan is so pro-Sikh that they kindly killed off 400,000 to 500,000 Sikhs in 1947 which was 20% of Sikhs living there killed.

If any people was to do the same to Pakistani Muslims today it would be the equivalent of killing 40 million innocent Pakistani's

People thought 9/11 was bad but imagine if 60 million Americans were killed in 2001. That's what Pakistan did to Sikhs.

Do you think the Jews will all go to Germany and saywhat a wonderful pro-Jewish country that Germany is? Get real dude!

In 1947 around 25% of the population of then West Pakistan was Sikh and Hindu. Now Sikhs are 0.01% of the population.

Ethnic cleansing of Sikhs, rape of Sikh women, removal of Sikhs from there land was done by Pakistan as state strategy.

Now that Sikhs in Pakistan are a powerless 0.01% minority u act all friendly to Sikhs in the hope that u can use Khalistan for drugs transit

No matter how much Sikhs hate the government of India every Sikh knows that the Prime Minister of Pakistan will never be a Sikh and never will the head of the Paskistan Army be a Sikh. The head of the Indian Army is a Sikh.

All your bs actually highlights the difference. The dude cleaning shoes, respect to him. But for every one like that are about a hundred sexual groomers that try to convert kaffirs to there religion. Everyone knows how many hundreds of Gurdwara's were destroyed in 1947. Ask any of the millions of Sikhs who were ethnically cleansed from Pakistan in 1947.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlq2JgdUaHU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxeuV1di8Iw&feature=related

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Pakistan is so pro-Sikh that they kindly killed off 400,000 to 500,000 Sikhs in 1947 which was 20% of Sikhs living there killed.

If any people was to do the same to Pakistani Muslims today it would be the equivalent of killing 40 million innocent Pakistani's

People thought 9/11 was bad but imagine if 60 million Americans were killed in 2001. That's what Pakistan did to Sikhs.

Do you think the Jews will all go to Germany and saywhat a wonderful pro-Jewish country that Germany is? Get real dude!

In 1947 around 25% of the population of then West Pakistan was Sikh and Hindu. Now Sikhs are 0.01% of the population.

Ethnic cleansing of Sikhs, rape of Sikh women, removal of Sikhs from there land was done by Pakistan as state strategy.

Now that Sikhs in Pakistan are a powerless 0.01% minority u act all friendly to Sikhs in the hope that u can use Khalistan for drugs transit

No matter how much Sikhs hate the government of India every Sikh knows that the Prime Minister of Pakistan will never be a Sikh and never will the head of the Paskistan Army be a Sikh. The head of the Indian Army is a Sikh.

All your bs actually highlights the difference. The dude cleaning shoes, respect to him. But for every one like that are about a hundred sexual groomers that try to convert kaffirs to there religion. Everyone knows how many hundreds of Gurdwara's were destroyed in 1947. Ask any of the millions of Sikhs who were ethnically cleansed from Pakistan in 1947.

OMG dude , you are at it again.....

Why are you bringing up "partition" violence? It had nothing to do with Pakistan or Pakistani state... It was an unfortunate event....BOTH sides killed eachother...You behave as if only Sikhs were killed...Probably way more Muslims were killed than Sikhs..My own taya was "nailed" and "thrown to the well" ..and that is just one story....I don't bring up these things due to a reason...

Kindly comment on Pakistani state...not the partitioned violence. If you say that Pakistan cleansed Sikhs..then kindly provide some proof maybe?

Secondly , Sikh CAN become an Army Chief in Pakistan.... but Sikhs never came towards Army..NOW they have started to come in Pakistan Army too...Current JCSC of Pakistan Armed Forces is a Christian.... JCSC is a HIGHER ranking military officer than even the Army chief!!!! One of the top Air Chief of Pakistan Air Force was a "Christian" ! "Cecil Chaudry" is still remembered by all Pakistanis....He took our air force to new heights....no wonder 7x bigger IAF didn't dare to launch any surgical strike on Pakistan ;)

There sooo many other such example..Now that Sikhs have also started to come to the armed forces..You'll see more and more higher ranking Sikhs officers too! There are already Sikh officers in Pakistan Army...

Sex grooming has NOTHING to do with Pakistan and Sikhs topics...

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When the partition happened, much violence and death occurred between Sikhs and Muslims. This caused much ill will and mistrust between the two communities. Right after 1947, Sikhs got a raw deal from the Hindus in India. Pakistanis at the time began to use this as an opportunity to forge ties with the Sikhs. When 1984 happened, the Sikhs and Hindus began to literally hate each other. This event pushed Sikhs and Muslims closer due to mutual interests and a common enemy. Compared to the other minorities in Pakistan, the Sikhs are treated better. My uncle went to Pakistan on a Yatra a few years ago and told me this too. In the UK however there seems to be different story. The UK is the only western country whose Pakistani community is represented not by the Punjabis but by the Mirpuris. The Mirpuris have given much offense to the Sikhs which is why many Sikhs in the UK mistrust Pakistanis(as is evident from the UK Sikhs in this forum who have very negative feelings for Pakistanis). The Mirpuris have done much to ruin Pakistan's reputation amongst non-Pakistanis in the UK.

Mirpuris are Kashmiris.... they look down even upon Pakistanis...so never mind ...lol ...They are just from ONE city...and do not represent Pakistanis at all.... UK Sikhs really hate Pakistan due to them...I don't know what Mirpuris do so bad that such hate is created.

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Auzer ji, I don't think Sikhs have any problem with Pak government. Animosity is there from partition and from Mughal rule. Also, because of how some Pakistanis behave abroad.

Also, the Muslim demand for Pakistan ripped apart Punjab and led to the deaths of so many people.

In regards to how some Pakistanis behave abroad: Why don't you guys deal with the troublemakers in your community? In the UK, the majority of sex offenders are Pakistanis and the majority of the victims are non-Muslims. I'm not over-generalizing.There are statistics to back this up. Rather than dealing with the problem, I find that Pakistanis get mad when others call them out on it. They fall back on accusations of islamophobia.

Your thoughts?

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Mirpuris are Kashmiris.... they look down even upon Pakistanis...so never mind ...lol ...They are just from ONE city...and do not represent Pakistanis at all.... UK Sikhs really hate Pakistan due to them...I don't know what Mirpuris do so bad that such hate is created.

Anything negative about Pakistanis coming out of the UK, you can attribute to the Mirpuris.

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Auzer ji, I don't think Sikhs have any problem with Pak government. Animosity is there from partition and from Mughal rule. Also, because of how some Pakistanis behave abroad.

Also, the Muslim demand for Pakistan ripped apart Punjab and led to the deaths of so many people.

In regards to how some Pakistanis behave abroad: Why don't you guys deal with the troublemakers in your community? In the UK, the majority of sex offenders are Pakistanis and the majority of the victims are non-Muslims. I'm not over-generalizing.There are statistics to back this up. Rather than dealing with the problem, I find that Pakistanis get mad when others call them out on it. They fall back on accusations of islamophobia.

Your thoughts?

Well I'm in the United States...so I really don't know how Pakistanis in UK act...but the problem lies with Mirpuris..who are just from ONE city of Kashmir...they aren't even Pakistanis...Secondly , it is Islamophobia when someone say "Muslims are sex offenders" ...The Punjabis , Afghanis , Turks , Arabs , Persians , Indonesians etc etc Muslims would be like "<banned word filter activated> dude?" ...So just say what it is...don't use the name 'Muslim'...just say Mirpuris are sex-offenders or something like that lol...

And division of Punjab was inevitable...Actually , the fact that Muslims didn't demand the whole Punjab (which was Muslim majority) should be appreciated....look what your government did? Took Kashmir and caused all this conflict....Kashmir was suppose to be with Pakistan...It was an over-whelming Muslim majority state...

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What about 1965 and 1971? Ring any bells? ;)

Yeah what about it?

Pakistan Army started a "covert" operation in "disputed territory" (NOT INDIA!) ... Indians were facing defeat (as expected) ... India launched an all-out invasion of mainland Pakistan.. Your strike divisions invaded Lahore! So it was INDIA who started the war , not Pakistan. We NEVER did any aggression on your mainland...We just did a covert operation in a disputed territory--a thing , which is very normal.. To hide its defeat , Indian state started war without even declaring it..

1971? REALLY?!?! It was naked Indian aggression....You trained Mukti Bahini , funded insurgency ...and invaded East Pakistan... Invading an isolated small enemy force that is away from its mainland...without any supply lines..without weapons for conventional war..engaged in a civil war, and is surrounded by three sides....is a VERY coward act , if I may say.

So have I said anything wrong here?

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Well I'm in the United States...so I really don't know how Pakistanis in UK act...but the problem lies with Mirpuris..who are just from ONE city of Kashmir...they aren't even Pakistanis...Secondly , it is Islamophobia when someone say "Muslims are sex offenders" ...The Punjabis , Afghanis , Turks , Arabs , Persians , Indonesians etc etc Muslims would be like "<banned word filter activated> dude?" ...So just say what it is...don't use the name 'Muslim'...just say Mirpuris are sex-offenders or something like that lol...

And division of Punjab was inevitable...Actually , the fact that Muslims didn't demand the whole Punjab (which was Muslim majority) should be appreciated....look what your government did? Took Kashmir and caused all this conflict....Kashmir was suppose to be with Pakistan...It was an over-whelming Muslim majority state...

Auzar Ji, how was it inevitable? the making of Pakistan actually had more negative impact than good on the subcontinent. If Pakistan was not made, atleast there would have been a balance between the Hindus and Muslims. Sikhs, Christians and other minorities were safe as long as this balance was maintained. But since pakistan was created, it broke this delicate balance and made the Hindus into the overwhelming majority who can trample on the minorities any way they wanted as was done to the Sikhs, Indian Muslims, Christians.

As an example, it's like the world situation since the end of the cold war. The world was in balance as long as there were 2 superpowers, but since the fall of the Soviet Union, the US has become the world bully which is not a good thing. Similarly in India there was a balance between Hindus and Muslims, but with the creation of Pakistan it not only weakened the position of the Indian Muslims but also made Hindus into bullies who can bully around any minority they want.

Now since Pakistan was created, Sikhs feel(and for good reason) that they should have also had their own country instead of being left at the mercy of a Hindu majority India.

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Auzar Ji, how was it inevitable? the making of Pakistan actually had more negative impact than good on the subcontinent. If Pakistan was not made, atleast there would have been a balance between the Hindus and Muslims. Sikhs, Christians and other minorities were safe as long as this balance was maintained. But since pakistan was created, it broke this delicate balance and made the Hindus into the overwhelming majority who can trample on the minorities any way they wanted as was done to the Sikhs, Indian Muslims, Christians.

As an example, it's like the world situation since the end of the cold war. The world was in balance as long as there were 2 superpowers, but since the fall of the Soviet Union, the US has become the world bully which is not a good thing. Similarly in India there was a balance between Hindus and Muslims, but with the creation of Pakistan it not only weakened the position of the Indian Muslims but also made Hindus into bullies who can bully around any minority they want.

Now since Pakistan was created, Sikhs feel(and for good reason) that they should have also had their own country instead of being left at the mercy of a Hindu majority India.

Very valid points Jonny ji. Whether the decision of dividing India was good or bad...Thats completely another topic. Even many Pakistanis believe that dividing India was bad for Indian Muslims....

Anyways...I hope now good relations develop b/w two countries.... I think people on both sides are becoming tired of this "enmity" now....

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Well I'm in the United States...so I really don't know how Pakistanis in UK act...but the problem lies with Mirpuris..who are just from ONE city of Kashmir...they aren't even Pakistanis...Secondly , it is Islamophobia when someone say "Muslims are sex offenders" ...The Punjabis , Afghanis , Turks , Arabs , Persians , Indonesians etc etc Muslims would be like "<banned word filter activated> dude?" ...So just say what it is...don't use the name 'Muslim'...just say Mirpuris are sex-offenders or something like that lol...

I didn't say Muslims are sex offenders, I said Pakistanis. According to statistics, the majority of sex offenders in the UK are from a Pakistani background.

Now your saying Mirpuris are the sex offenders. Before you said you don't know why people hate on Mirpuris.

It's sad that your trying to deflect criticism, instead of honing up.

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I didn't say Muslims are sex offenders, I said Pakistanis. According to statistics, the majority of sex offenders in the UK are from a Pakistani background.

Now your saying Mirpuris are the sex offenders. Before you said you don't know why people hate on Mirpuris.

It's sad that your trying to deflect criticism, instead of honing up.

No , you misunderstood me. I said I don't know why Sikhs in UK hate Mirpuris so much...I know there are sex-offenders from Mirpuri community.....BUT..there must be more than that to it. Probably Mirpuris are just toooooo proud in their daily dealings too? Or probably they look down upon others? I'm pretty sure that sex- issue is not the only cause of this hate..there must be something more..

Hope I have clarified myself.

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