Balanced View of Hindu-Sikh Shaster Vidiya

[InderjitS]

True that, even most Sikhs respect naamdhari's abilities in Raag Kirtan. I will never respect the cult though, nor will any real Nihangs.

No doubt they are brilliant keertanis but I find it hard to listen to them as I'm never certain whether they are praising Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or the dehdhari. If someone can clear this doubt, I'd be grateful. I've listened to them live as well but always had this nagging thought in my mind and was not able to fully concentrate. After Bhai Balbir Singh Namdharis are unparalleled when it comes to singing Guru Gobind Singh Jis bani.

[Cisco_Singh]

Technically speaking the current Naamdhari Satgurus are not actual Gurus. They are caretakers as Naamdharis believe that Ram Singh before he was exiled by the British for the independence movement he started, he apparently stated that he will return...So the line of Satgurus since then are just keeping the seat warm so to say until Ram Singh returns... Which as time goes on seems ever more unlikely to happen...

Personally I dont believe Ram Singh himself ever claimed to be Guru or ever claimed to have inherited Guruship from Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I think that years after Ram Singh was exiled..someone in the Naamdhari movment created this story and wrote a book containing this story, from here onwards Naamdharis propogated this story.

Ram Singh himself was a pretty dynamic individual...a well respected gunner in the army of Nau Nihal Singh (Grandson of Maharajah Ranjit Singh) he left the army dissillusioned with the corruptness and treachery of "punjabi" Sikhs at the time.

He then started his own movement at Bhaini Sahib and sent a Jatha to Hazur Sahib to learn about "puratan" Maryada as he believed Punjabi Sikhs had become corrupted. This is why Naamdharis have an affinity with Nihangs both generally base their practises around puratan Hazur Sahib Maryada..although Naamdharis are strict vegetarians..Nihangs follow Jhatka maryada... Both read Chandi Di Vaar and other Baanis, both carry out aarti, during anand karaj they apparently walk anti-clockwise around a fire.. Not clockwise like mainstream Sikhs around Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Ram Singhs started the independance movement against the British...and his ideas were eventually copied by Gandhi...i.e: boycott of all british goods etc. Naamdharis also slaughtered the buthers that opened up shops near the Harmandir Sahib complex. They also made a lot of sacrifices for independence which resulted in one incident where several naamdharis were tied to cannons and blown apart by the british.

Naamdharis as mentioned are far superior in Gurmat Sangeet and Raag Vidiya, Shabad Kirtan etc.. As the previous Satgurus spent considerable time encouraging the learning of indian classical music, instruments and raag vidiya. A science which is sadly lost with the majority of mainstream Sikhs. Mainstream Sikhs could actually learn a lot in spirituality and Raag Vidiya from the Naamdharis,

But ultimately the downfall of Naamdharis will always be their belief in a dehdari living Guru...this will always keep them alienated and distanced from the rest of the panth,.

[satbachan96]

Cisco Singhi Ji,

I agree with what Sant Ji writes. Unfortunately with all this gyan, Nihangs were no where to be seen during struggles over the past 40-50 years. Jagdeep mentioned to me 1984 was not their (Nihangs) battle as they were not consulted by Sant Jarnail Singh Ji. Even if the Panth are willing to forgive this oversight what of the struggles prior to the attack? Where was the valour in 1978? Where were these soormey Sant Gurbachan Ji talks of in recent clashes with Ram Rahim and bandar sena when Jaspal Singh was killed? Did Guru Sahib turn ordinary folk into warriors so they could rest on their laurels or fight oppression? Now we have Singhs who are not trained warriors having to fight these battles and obviously this is not great but at least they are brave enough to take a stand. Nidar S always refers to the greatness of Shashtar Vidya and has numerous examples from history where it was used effectively. What use is that to us now?

I'm not completely against Nidar S as he does does talk some sense as does Parmjit S etal. However Jagdeep on his site crossed the line when criticising the real soormey of the Panth. If Nidar was truly a fearless jodha, he should be ready to sacrifice his life for the injustices being faced by all Sikhs in Punjab (ਜਾਂ ਦੁਸ਼ਮਣਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸ਼ਹੀਦ ਕਰਕੇ ਜਿੱਤ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਜਾਂ ਆਪ ਜੂਝ ਕੇ ਸ਼ਹੀਦੀ ਪਾਉਂਦੇ ਹੈ) ill be surprised if his relatives are treated any differently.

Paaji you are straying away from the subject itself..going back to the subject itself i still feel shaster vidita is more effective than modern daygatka....in all honesty in the enviroment we live in today i feel bbj/mma/muay thai and a bit of knife training is enough for singhs to be confident street fighter in this time...for you to be going on about 84 and nihangs..paaji go talk to baba nihal singh harianbelan...there were many nihangs who got shaheed in 84...and if your talkihg about santbbaba santa singh not getting involved he clearly told sant jarnail singh we will back you but get rid of akali dal they are not to be trusted and funnily enough they ended up backstabbing sant ji.. another condition was to be based at anandpur sahib as its is hill area unlike harmandhir sahib....but sant ji wanted ekhta and rightly so but it didnt not work that way......niddar is not the jathedar of budda dal or any tarna dal...so why are people hell bent on thinking what he does and preachs represents nihangs...hazur sahib already cornered him about his book, nihangs in panjab disregard him....

If i was to claim my self as an akj...get a dhabla go to macdonalds saying waacruu very fast at the top of my voice with a big mac in my hand..will i truly represent the infamous akj...will the akj nation be known as big mac eaters..

This topic is clearly people who dont like niddar and his views..nothing to do with martial arts...or nihang....

[chatanga]

Ajit "phoola" the corrupt so called "nihang" - was the only one who visited bhaini and kept close congressi ties with the namdharis - but even he would call their Guru - baba or jagta

poohla was a naamdhari before he joined the dal.

[taran0]

it just comes down to character

if someones a bit dubious and dodgy - i wouldn't send my kids even if they had the best skills in the world

protection of our youth is important, which is why i think its important to be honest and expose any lies so parents can make their own choices

still there has been no comment from Nidar regarding the fact that he IS NOT the last living master of shastervidiya, which he has been claiming to British newspapers, when there clearly are students of Baba Giana singh still alive

I mean why LIE?

have any of his students asked him? or is that not allowed?

[taran0]

I heard something happened at one of Nidars recent seminars in Toronto?

does anyone have any information on what went down?

[Guest]

I heard something happened at one of Nidars recent seminars in Toronto?

does anyone have any information on what went down?

There was a seminar in Toronto?If I knew I would have gone and tried to beat some sense into him lol.

[taran0]

this is a very important document that everyone should look at - there should be no doubt that we protect our young people from anti-panthic cults like these

originally posted here - http://www.shastervidiya.org/letter-council-sikh-gurdwaras-birmingham-shepherds-bush-gurdwara-ban-nidar-singh/

Here is a letter from The Council of Sikh Gurdwaras in Birmingham (CSGB) which represents all the Gurdwaras in Birmingham to the Khalsa Jatha Gurdwara in Shepherds Bush who have been up until recently holding Snatan Hindu-Sikh Shastarvidiya Classes taught by Nidar the fake Nihang who has been exposed as a liar claiming to be the last Sikh warrior. The letter also clearly states that Nidar has been banned from teaching or preaching his ideology at all Birmingham Gurdwaras.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our Ref: DPB/NSSBG

Date: 31/07/2013

Dear honourable and respected President and Management Committee

Central Gurdwara (Khalsa Jatha) Shepherds Bush, London

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

We write to you with deepest respect and humility for the historic platform that

Guru Ji has blessed you to serve.

We have been contacted by various members of the Sikh community who have

visited Central Gurdwara with veneration, but have asked us to formally share

concerns with you, of which you may not already be aware, in relation to the

teaching of Shastar Vidya at Sheperds Bush Gurdwara Sahib, which we

understand is administered under the tutelage of a Gatka Akhara headed by

Nidar Singh.

For some years now there have been substantial anxieties about the nature of

practices passed on by, the ideology espoused and preaching done by Nidar

Singh and/or his associates. Many people, some of whom have been former

students and close associates and social friends with him and those close to

him, have raised concerns that they have found the teaching of Shastar Vidiya

to be misleading to vulnerable and impressionable young people who may

come to learn this Sikh martial art. For example many young people have laid

witness to the propagation of the use of Alcohol and Marijuana and even the

practice of removing bodily hair for amritdharis. There are incidents shared

where Sikhi aspirants who never drank or consumed drugs, are now socially

active in these practices; more concerning, however, is that the social practice

is often taking place within the same social group that the Shastar Vidiya akhara

students form, rather than a circle that some students may frequent

inadvertently.

There is direct evidence of Nidar Singh and his associates actively propagating

contra Khalsa Panth ideology by actively promoting a “Snatan Hindu-Sikh

ideology” and stating that Sikhs are part of Hindu religion, not unique and

separate (i.e. not a vakhri kaum or nation from Hindu ideology) which

undermines the foundation of the establishment of the Khalsa Panth. Please

see attached quotations from his websites (www. 1

www.) on which Sikh history is distorted by attributing misquotes to

historic figures, and misrepresenting key historic events, in order to substantiate

this Snatan ideology.

In this respect all Sikh Gurdwaras in Birmingham and the surrounding areas,

since becoming aware of the nature of Nidar’s beliefs, his teachings and

practices have banned Nidar Singh from teaching at the Gurdwara Sahibs

including Guru Tegh Bahadur Gurdwara, Wolverhampton

These moves were initiated by Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Handsworth Wood,

Birmingham cancelling classes taught by Nidar in early 2012, which culminated

after a large meeting of over 150 people of broad backgrounds and jathas. After

which the Committee of the Gurdwara Sahib took a decision to deny a platform

to the anti-Sikhi ideology that is presented through Nidar Singh and his network,

and the danger they pose to our youth to take them away from Guru Granth

Sahib ji’s philosophy.

We hope that you will take this correspondence in the spirit intended, and we

trust that along with other Gurdwara Sahibs, The Council of Sikh Gurdwaras in

Birmingham, Sikh Societies and jathe bandies (as per attached documents),

that the committee of Shepherds Bush Gurdwara Sahib distance themselves

from Nidar Singh and ensure the protection and safeguarding of the sangat who

come to spiritually and physically excel in Guru Ji’s sanctuary.

Please support these steadfast efforts to deny any group or individual a platform

at any Gurdwara Sahib, to spread ideology that in itself contradicts Sikh

teachings and practice, and takes Sikhs away from Guru Ji.

We are available to provide any further evidence or support you may require.

Dr P.S.Bhogal

signed

Chairman – Council of Sikh Gurdwaras in Birmingham (CSGB)

[Shastar Man]

wjkk wjkf,

This is great news! I still can't see why this 'group' is allowed to teach in any Gurdwara in the UK. Hopefully, the Gurdwara in Sheperds Bush take notice and stop classes immediately. This letter should be sent to Leicester and Leeds Gurdwara's aswell. Flush these people out, they do more bad than good!

They have similar ideology to RSS! It shouldn't matter who teaches at these Gurdwara's, they are still students of Niddar, they will spew the same filth to young impressionable minds as their beloved 'Gurdev'!

Well done to the Council of Sikh Gurdwaras in Birmingham..

wjkk wjkf

[Babbar_Singhsta]

fateh all , please watch this video

<<< Niddar goes to mcdonalds!!! and his chele the one that teachers in leeds is at KFC!!! u know that ther gonna be eating... these people are nothing but egoistical nihang wanna be's. real nihangs from the dal in india are sarbloh bibiek!!!! these guys are a bunch of clowns... its funny how their food is hidden in the video. lol please watch it all and spread1!! Taran0 download and cut the kfc , maccies bit for your website! akaaalo!