Amritdhari, non-amritdhari.

[Bijla Singh]

"How did such a small percentage come to dictate what "gurmat" Sikhi is?"

You fail to understand the fact that Gursikhi is dictated by Gurbani not by people. So far you have not presented any evidence to make your claims credible. Only Amritdhari practicing gursikhs are Sikhs. The rest who commit bajjar kurehats and don’t keep rehat are not Sikhs in any sense. Hence, the “small minority” that practices Gurmat knows the real message of Gurbani.

[luckysingh99]

What else you expect me to do veer? Our friend has been basically mocking Amrit so far, and I do hope he didn't mean to. I am the last person to judge someone based on if they've taken Amrit or not, as I come from a family that is not only non-Amritdhari, but non-Sikh. So I am handicapped to judge anyone based on that reason solely. All we're doing is trying to encourage a brother, but if someone doesn't want to learn and is adamant on calling Guru Sahib's Rehit as "not Gurmat", what other choice is left? I used to have several such questions before I was blessed with Amrit. Now I look back and realize I had no idea back then (maybe I still don't, but still trying to tread the path). Its not a split second process, its a journey, a long one. When you take Amrit, you embark upon it, the destination is reached after constant effort on your part. If I came off as harsh or rude, then I apologize to both of you, and sincerely. My intention wasn't to degrade anyone. I have never humiliated even those who are alcoholics or chain smokers just because they were that way. Bottom line is that if one has to disagree with something, there is a way to do so even if you strongly disagree. I know Amritdharis as well who don't keep Bibek and also disagree with it, some condemn it the same way. I tell them the same thing I told you guys, that if your Panj Pyaare didn't ask you to keep it, then its upto you, but please don't mock this Rehit. Another thing, I am myself not a Bibeki, maybe I don't deserve to be? But I do know what and how much one misses from a spiritual perspective because once upon a time I did try to live by it. Don't take my word for it. Take Amrit and keep Bibek, then come back and tell us how it works out for you. Believe me, its not a joke. One would need massive kirpa of Guru Sahib to even move a step in that direction.

Thanks

I think you can see from my previous post how I have done a U-turn overnight on this topic of discussion. I tried to explain my reasoning and was hoping Sherdil ji would understand from this.

I don't think that he was mocking amrit in any way, but he was making a very valid and honest point. Although my stance was the same as his, I have now realised and learnt the true meaning of bibek rehit and the need for this discipline.

I hope that my explanation can inspire others to understand this a little better.

The whole point of discussion is to LEARN and that is exactly what I did !! - Learnt- LEARNING IS WHAT SIKHI IS ABOUT.

Sensible discussion and explaining is what is required to help each other and I thank Only Five's contribution that made me see this rehit in a slightly different light.

There is no need to be aggressive and dismissive towards others, even if we feel they come across as mocking.

We should try and explain with a neutral and understanding attitude. Sikhism is NOT about forcing others to learn and accept. Guru Nanak ji NEVER forced what was right or gurmat onto anyone, he simply made them REALISE.

That is the approach and attitude that sikhi should be taught and learnt with, as sikhi is about BOTH the teacher and learner.

Let's ALL try and learn from this experience, because if my posts or Sherdil's were never posted, then they would NOT have come across as dismissive and I would NOT have learnt what I did !!

[Mehtab Singh]

ok

[Guest]

Everybody please let's all say waheguru

[Guest dasguruka]

Bibek Rehat is not the rehat of the Guru, because you are judging someone's "pureness" simply by whether or not they have drank Amrit. You aren't taking into account what is in their heart, or the actions they take.

Amrit has no special powers to cleanse your sins, nor does it prevent you from committing future sins. It isn't a get out of jail card nor is it a free ticket to mukti. You still have to work for your kamai.

You can be an amritdhari and an awful human being at the same time. I've met plenty.

Even if all amritdharis were pure and all non-amritdharis were full of sin, it wouldn't affect your kamai to eat from them. You are treating them like untouchables.

No one here has been able to explain how Bibek has benefitted them. Does anyone here even keep Bibek?

What benefit have you obtained from abstaining from non-amritdhari food and "jhootah". How has it helped your kamai?

Khalsa Ji Fateh, but just taking Amrit actually cleanses a lot of sins although we remain unaware how. I listened to this Katha by Giani Thakur Singh ji and he explained this one individual complained how in his dreams he became a dog and died or something else and then died. Giani Ji explained that Amrit was bringing his Karma to 0 so that obtain liberation. Bibek does have a lot of benefits. Heres a link that explains the benefits of bibek rehit. http://www.gurmatbibek.com/category.php?id=80 . Bibek itself means from two(bib) to one (ek). I also agree with you that Amrit isn't the last step. Its only a beginning and you still have to work a lot towards your kamai. Apart from everything else, before someone can be a good practitioner of any Dharma he/she has to be a good human being first.

[Guest dasguruka]

Keep saying I'm making fun of amrit. It's a good way of deflecting criticism. Even if it isn't true.

Out of all the Sikhs around the world, maybe 25% keep kes. Out of that, maybe 10% are amritdhari and 5% keep bibek.

How did such a small percentage come to dictate what "gurmat" Sikhi is?

If amrit is the beginning and not the end goal, then our numbers are nowhere near 300,000. More like 30,000.

Par teekh hai. Man gayah tuhadi gal. I have never tried to keep bibek, so what do I know? Then again, I have never tried idol worship or wearing a janeau. How can I claim these are false practices if I have never tried them?

I should stop posting now. The ambrosial nectar has not touched my lips, therefore any opinions I put forth will be immediately shot down. I do not want to contaminate anyone's kamai with my moorakh thoughts.

I will sign up for the next amrit sanchar. However, I don't want any ordinary amrit. I want only that amrit which will make it impossible for me to commit any sin or bad deed. In addition to sugar and water, it should contain all the knowledge of gurbani, so that I may absorb it as it passes through my body. If someone can make this amrit for me, then I will rush to take it right away.

Mehtab Singh ji, you have said many times that you have converted to Sikhi from Hinduism. I respect that a lot. However, I'm not sure what reference point you have outside of those who have lead you down this path. Whatever they have told you, you have come to believe.

Sikhi isn't about making sense of senseless practices. The claim that if one can't make sense of it, then it's because one doesn't have high avastha or is weak, doesn't hold water. That isn't Sikhi. Real Sikhi enlightens even the lowliest moorakhs. You don't need to reach to find meaning.

Sikhi is about discovering truth and truthful living.

Khalsa Ji I use to be just like you. But you know when the words you once said seem false and theres nothing you can do to change them. Even though I am not worthy of telling anyone anything, please take this an advice that its best to speak a little.

[Guest dasguruka]

I don't understand how bibek rehit can make it easier to control 5 vices, when bibek itself is a contributer to 'haumai' and ego.!!

Give it a try Khalsa Ji. Before I took Amrit I use to do a lot of naam simran and the next day or maybe the day after I would give into kaam. Keeping bibek rehit is good. If someone does not want to keep bibek rehit and does not give into the 5 vices then more power to them! but moorakhs like me need it.

[Only five]

Keep saying I'm making fun of amrit. It's a good way of deflecting criticism. Even if it isn't true.

Out of all the Sikhs around the world, maybe 25% keep kes. Out of that, maybe 10% are amritdhari and 5% keep bibek.

How did such a small percentage come to dictate what "gurmat" Sikhi is?

If its about numbers then lets count how many Sikhs think like you? Lets just make that number 30% just to give you a leg up. I know you must have gone to every Sikh and conducted a very long qualative research project, but I just pulled numbers out of the air. Now lets talk about Satguru the true numbers. Satguru said 1 Sikh (Shastardhari, Tyar bar Tyar) is equal to 125, 000. Sikh population is 27 million. Times this by 5% and you got 135, 000 Tyar bar Tyar Sikhs. Just to give you another leg up lets say rest of Khalsa Panth takes your illogical view.........they won't, but just to make you happy lets do it. So thats 26,865,000 Sikhs on your side..........pat yourself on the back thats a lot...........run for elections next year. But wait now times 135,000 (Tyar Bar Tyar) by 125,000. What does that give you Mr.Qualatitive research. Don't pull out a calculator you'll look......................

To answer your question, how does such a small minority dictate Gurmat? Firstly Satguru dictates Gurmat (Satguru speaks for Bibek) and if it was about numbers, next time hire a different firm to conduct your qualitative research for you. :biggrin2:

[HSD2]

What I want to know is how do those who fully keep Bibek buy their food? Like how do you know the person who picked the potatoes in your sabhji was an amritdhari? Or the guy who packaged the food? Or that the fruit/vegetables that you buy havent been touched before by a non-Amritdhari? Or the people cooking in every Gurudwara are all Amritdhari? Or is it just once it gets to your plate that all of this becomes a major issue?

[luckysingh99]

What I want to know is how do those who fully keep Bibek buy their food? Like how do you know the person who picked the potatoes in your sabhji was an amritdhari? Or the guy who packaged the food? Or that the fruit/vegetables that you buy havent been touched before by a non-Amritdhari? Or the people cooking in every Gurudwara are all Amritdhari? Or is it just once it gets to your plate that all of this becomes a major issue?

Sensiblility is the key to this discipline.

If one lives in an area where there is only one store that they can get their sabzi and fruit from, then they buy from there -simple.

The issue is about the cooking, we know with hygiene everything is washed physically before cooking.

This is where the real play comes in.