DJ Bobby Friction refuses to play songs with any mention of caste.

[Jonny101]

The old folk songs of punjab were clean even when they made referance to jatts it was in an innocent way not like todays punjabi songs which glorify a caste. The recent chamar songs are a weird reaction to what they think is glorification of jatts. For example i remember reading an article not too long ago of a chamar singer justifying songs glorifying the chamars in reaction to recent songs glorifying sant bhindranwalay. it seems like there is a hidden agenda behind these justifications. I wonder who is behind this unholy agenda.

[West London Singh]

^^^

How relevant are 'love songs' about Panjabi Muslims or excessive alcohol consumption to us Sikhs today anyway?

Even that overly macho posturing that typifies the genre feels well out of place in the 21st century.

Being 'muslims' has nothing to do with it. It is an essential part of our literary Punjabi history in much the same way that Shakespeare is to the English language. Only an 'English Taliban' would wish to ban some references from Shakespeare simply because they didn't like the modern dirty usages of those words. Bhangra is, in essence, Punjabi folk. Punjabi folk is nothing if not ballads of the epics. Thus, how can a song about 'Heer', which in itself becomes a metaphor for a girl in love, not mention the fact that she is Jatti Heer, when the story itself not only makes a big deal of it but it is an essential part of her character ?

How can a song about 'Ranjha', which itself has become a metaphor for a male Punjabi in love, not mention the fact that he is a jatt when the story itself not only makes a big deal of it but it is an essential part of his character ?

Mirza ? Jagga ? Dhulla Bhatti ? The list is endless. The point is that bhangra, as Punjabi folk music, has its roots and essence in the punjabi classics. Unless we can invent a time machine , go back 500 years, and force the authors at gunpoint to make their stories about chamars, tarkhans and bhatras we are in denial of our own history. This thinking is exactly the same as the Taliban.

[N30S1NGH]

The recent chamar songs are a weird reaction to what they think is glorification of jatts.

May be chamars/ravi dasaie etc were villified/demonized by jatts for too long? just for the record - i was born in jatt family. I am just pointed out why they may be revolting back.

Anyway best way to get people rise above from all this is bring some depth in punjabi folk songs. Just compare pakistani punjabi/urdu/sindh songs/ghazal which are poetic have depth in them with our punjabi songs they put our punjabi songs these days to shame. The punjabi folk songs by Kuldip Manak, Satinder Sartaj, yamla, hans raj hans should be encouraged, more sitting singing with sehaj should be encouraged in mehfil rather than standing - dancing around like monkeys (nothing wrong punjabi dancing) but we all know how simple dancing goes and turned into to our people piss drunk- screaming their lungs out- bruahh jatt bakaie bulandaa..lol and turned our woman into half naked show (kinda like modern mugal mujra)...!!!!!!!!!

[MrDoaba]

Im waiting for someone to sing a song called "Putt Sikhan De"....

:khalsa2:

[N30S1NGH]

Im waiting for someone to sing a song called "Putt Sikhan De"....

:khalsa2:

Now that would set the record straight..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dalsingh101]

Being 'muslims' has nothing to do with it. It is an essential part of our literary Punjabi history in much the same way that Shakespeare is to the English language.Only an 'English Taliban' would wish to ban some references from Shakespeare simply because they didn't like the modern dirty usages of those words. Bhangra is, in essence, Punjabi folk. Punjabi folk is nothing if not ballads of the epics

.

Those cycles of folk songs aren't exactly 'literary' because they were generally oral traditions not written ones. So get that straight in your head firstly. Also pop your head into the V&A Islamic section one day soon and you can see a jar from the modern day Iraq area with the Heer Ranjha story referenced on it - that predates the birth of Baba Nanak by a few centuries. So there is a very strong case of some Panjabis 'appropriating' an Arab or Persian tale and them homogenising as some 'Jatt' story.

Thus, how can a song about 'Heer', which in itself becomes a metaphor for a girl in love, not mention the fact that she is Jatti Heer, when the story itself not only makes a big deal of it but it is an essential part of her character ?How can a song about 'Ranjha', which itself has become a metaphor for a male Punjabi in love, not mention the fact that he is a jatt when the story itself not only makes a big deal of it but it is an essential part of his character ?

Your 'metaphoric' reading is a modern day construct, probably from your own personal imagination.

Mirza ? Jagga ? Dhulla Bhatti ? The list is endless. The point is that bhangra, as Punjabi folk music, has its roots and essence in the punjabi classics. Unless we can invent a time machine , go back 500 years, and force the authors at gunpoint to make their stories about chamars, tarkhans and bhatras we are in denial of our own history. This thinking is exactly the same as the Taliban.

We had Guru Amar Das Ji start the masand system himself, which, when it became a hindrance to progress and unity was uncompromisingly discarded and rejected by Guru Gobind Singh. The point being that not all 'heritage' ends up positive, and that we have strong traditions of breaking away from things when they become distorted to the point of outright backwardness - initiated by our very Gurus themselves. So even if Panjabi folk music has its roots in 'classics', that doesn't justify clinging onto the rubbish it has metamorphed into, especially when it plays such a lewd role today with encouragements of getting p1ssed and amorous as well as solidifying and creating stronger caste fissures amongst Sikhs, who frankly can't afford to go down that path given the challenges they face in the 21st century.

[West London Singh]

Those cycles of folk songs aren't exactly 'literary' because they were generally oral traditions not written ones. So get that straight in your head firstly. Also pop your head into the V&A Islamic section one day soon and you can see a jar from the modern day Iraq area with the Heer Ranjha story referenced on it - that predates the birth of Baba Nanak by a few centuries. So there is a very strong case of some Panjabis 'appropriating' an Arab or Persian tale and them homogenising as some 'Jatt' story.

Every story comes from somewhere else Dal Singh. Even the story behind Jesus is copied word for word from the story behind the Iranian pre-Islamic god Mithras. Lets take your own 'Heer Ranjha' example : Waris Shah made his story about 2 tribes of Jatts not because he was a Jatt (because he was not one) nor because he liked jatts (because he didn't). He actually made the story about jatts because the rise of the jatts at that time in Punjab was something that was quite perplexing for Punjabi society. To write about them...to sing about them...became vogue because the literary Punjabi classes became fascinated at how these uneducated, uncouth barbarian jatts were rising to power.

So, the facts that both you and Mr Friction need to appreciate are these :

NONE of the epic and classical Punjabi stories about jatts have been written by jatts themselves.

NONE of the all-time great Punjabi songs about jatts have been sung by any jatts themselves. For example, Kuldip Manak = Mirasi, Surinder Shinda = Tarkhan, Ranjit Kaur = Tarkhan, Yamla Jatt = Chamar, Chamkila = chamar , Miss Pooja = Tonk, Alam Lohar = Lohar, etc etc.

EVERY single song sung about other 'castes', for example chamars, tarkhans , bhatras etc, are sung by members of those particular communities themselves.

Thus, one has history, culture and literary tradition behind it and the other is based on nothing more than self-promotion of caste.

Do you see now which Mr Friction should be banning ?

[dalsingh101]

Every story comes from somewhere else Dal Singh. Even the story behind Jesus is copied word for word from the story behind the Iranian pre-Islamic god Mithras. Lets take your own 'Heer Ranjha' example : Waris Shah made his story about 2 tribes of Jatts not because he was a Jatt (because he was not one) nor because he liked jatts (because he didn't). He actually made the story about jatts because the rise of the jatts at that time in Punjab was something that was quite perplexing for Punjabi society. To write about them...to sing about them...became vogue because the literary Punjabi classes became fascinated at how these uneducated, uncouth barbarian jatts were rising to power.

Not at all. It's just part of a wider cycle of tragic romantic tales, this one just happens to have been falsely twisted into being a supposedly jat story, when it plainly isn't even Panjabi. Plus note of very few IF ANY of these stories are about anyone from a Sikh background.

Plus if your wider thesis is that all of the garbage that passes for culture under the name of jats was propagated by nonjats (as you state above), I can assure you the wider society such opportunistic singers have come from are regretting this in droves upon witnessing the effect of such pandering on the 'uncouth, barbarian' (your own words) peasants in the long term. Something that has turned into such a distasteful thing that even progressive people from jat backgrounds are now turning their backs on it in disgust.

[Jonny101]

WLS jee, before the jatts became sikhs, jatts in punjab were no ones. They were easily dominated by the rajputs, baloch tribes and pathans. jatts did not have any notable warrior. The only noteworthy thing we had were romeos i.e. ranjha, mirza. Which is why when waris shah or peelu wrote down their kissas they did not write the term jatt as if it is some quality to be proud of. They just wrote jatti with heer or sahiba as we today say chamari or chuhri for those we deem lower than us. Status of jatts only rose because of sikhi.

it is only when jatts became sikhs did the so call rise of the jatts in punjab happen. Otherwise before the advent of sikhi all the great warrior tribes of punjab such as the gakhars, janjuas, bhattis were all non jats. We should never be proud of our caste. Only thing to be proud of is that we are humble sikhs of Guru Gobing Singh Jee.

[Sherdil]

No one has mentioned the Sufi connection to those romance stories? The authors were Sufi.

Sufis believe they are the soul-brides of God, a theme which is present throughout Guru Granth Sahib as well.

Thus the relation between the man and the woman was a metaphor for the relationship between God and his soul-brides.

As for the Jatt link, it just captures Punjab. When you think of Punjab, you think of agriculture and farmland (at least you used too).

It's also a more romantic backdrop. Walking through the fields, as opposed to working in a carpenter's shop or bazaar.