~~ Individual cultish perception and the khalsa panth ~~

[dalsingh101]

I'm feeling that last post!

[Guest]

^^Me to

[N30S1NGH]

Great post kalyugi veer all around..i want to focus on things you mentioned in the last bit.

Sikhi should be a path willingly tread like those 5 Singhs decided to embark upon many years ago at Anandpur: Live or die, give your head or not give your head. It should be a transformative, life-altering experience. It shouldn't be a buzz that lasts a couple of months and then simmers down allowing normal service to be resumed (internally at least).

Sikhi is about following hukam, keeping rehat, but it's also more than that. It should be about compassion, loyalty, honesty, empathy, strength... great qualities any human being desires be part of their repertoire as a functioning member of society and the human race at large.

This is my point. The issue is not just with students who took amrit but also parchariks who feel their job is done once people have taken amrit. Here is another example, I know three youths through my distant relative from pind..when sant ranjit singh ji dhandrian wale first start becoming popular, these three youths were soo pumped up by sant ji pumped up divan, that they took amrit after 6 months or so, they cut their kesh why? It was small spike while it lasted, their mind could not sustain amrit as sikhi is sehaj marg wasn't explained by parcharaiks or understood by students, likewise there are many who are in sikh dharam for "juicy stuff/controversial stuff", "small mystic kicks" and in for as "authoritity to control and herd liked minded sheeps" as long they keep getting it or in power, they are sustained in the panth once they don't they won't be sustained in the panth all though they look like sikhs like regular joe blow like me and you.

Sadh sangat is encouraged in Gurmat, society of saints/sant (all of sants mentioned or samparda's/jatha does so) that should inspire us to do bhagti, read gurbani, contemplate on it , do simran on our own, self-reflect, do khoj/research if it does not may be something wrong with our individual perception/mindset at the first place- may be we are looking for shortcuts or kicks or may be we are looking for wrong things. Sant Mahapursh be it bhai, sant, bhramgyani, prof all tend to join sikh-learners/students to be in love with gurbani, sri guru granth sahib,encourage to follow hakum and rehat, all tend to join others with tat(essence) of gurbani and at the end ultimately depending on kirpa from vahiguroo via mahapursh (if its preordained) mahapursh ultimately show one the mirror of their own reflection of their true self. .!!

There is something fundamentally wrong with individual cultish perception if one is dwelling- spending time arguing/fighting/debating/discussing-

1. Debates on who is next successor of sant mahapursh- who goes on next gaddi ? - This is one of common debates/discussion among individuals associated within jatha/samparda's (all - be it nirmale, udasi, akj, nihangs, sevapanthis, taksal, rara sahib, nanaksar, hoti mardan, harkhowal, dodra, 3ho etc etc), i m sorry any discussion of who is next gaddi sant or jathedar on mainstream panthic stage, secular forums is coming across promoting cultish tendacies so i don't care who is doing it, keep it yourself, keep it off line..or even better- don't do it at all- consider it as hakum and concentrate on tat-essence- sant mahapursh is indicating or trying to show others- naam/seva/hakum/rehat/gurbani contemplation/self reflection/gyan etc..!!

These cultish tendencies existed in guru maharaj time as well when guru maharaj gave parchar gaddiyas/manjiya to spread Gurmat, while gurmukhs were spreading Gurmat via established institutions ( manjia), people who start going to these institutions start not all but some are start becoming cultish, start having cultish tendencies as its human trait so much so that people were more concerned about gurmukhs who were spreading gurmat via blessed manjiya(establishment for gurmat) than actually Guru Maharaj himself..again nothing wrong with blessed gurmukhs who were spreading gurmat but everything wrong with individual perception which promotes cultish tendencies..!!!!!!!!

2. Debates on if "my sant is better than yours", this one is classic. Again totally missed the boat or missing the purpose of being in sadh sangat and actual purpose of sadh sangat which is being inspired to do bhagti, naam simran/gurbani contemplatation, self reflection, go intovert and do research within..!!

3. Debates on if sant jarnail singh khalsa bhindranwale is alive or shahed. Again totally missing the bigger hakum aspect of akaal purkh. Again seriously why should it concern our individual sikhi if sant jarnail singh khalsa bhindranwale is alive or shahid? (I wouldn't be to suprised if he is alive nor i wouldn't be equally suprised if he is shahid as guru maharaj hakum we cannot lock in pre-conceived notions and i will leave it at that and move on..!!).

4. Bhai sahib ji said so, so i m following, bhai sahib quoted it so i must follow it as shown in the original post

The first step is for all jatha singhs to accept all the bani from which bhai sahib has quoted from. This includes chandi di war, shastar naam mala, bachtir natak, akal ustat, tuks from avtar banis (ram avtar, krishan avtar etc) are also quoted. One bani which there seems that bhai sahib hasn't quoted from is charitpakyan (unless someone shows evidence otherwise - book and page number), so it is ok to have a discussion on any dasam granth bani that bhai sahib hasn't quoted from. However Any jatha singh who goes against any dasam bani which bhai sahib has quoted will always be a disloyal fake jatha singh.

5. Seeing divinity/divine experience through sant mahapursh bhramgyani lenses (their personal expereince shared) in other words imitate them.. I am sorry that could itself become one's road block- each one of us have different karams/different perceptions/different state of minds, sometimes its better to flow one's consciousness/intuition spontaneously/naturally than force perception just because sant mahapursh/bhai sahib ji said so or wrote so. What may work for one, may not work for others as we are all at different avastha- state of mind, have different karams. I admit this one very subtle and very tricky..I am guilty of this one at times as well but i made general rule of thumb let the consciousness/intuition flow naturally don't force percept it or super impose other expereinces on yourself ..!!!!!!!

[UKLondonSikh]

First the original poster was attacking AKJ and now this op is attacking Taksal. Now we know what to expect in 2013 from this poster. Obviously this person has not sat down with Sant baba Thakur Singh ji Maharaj and is just on a hating rampage. Baba ji only attached Sikhs to Satguru and Satguru's rehat.

If anything this member is angry at the comments i so called made toward Sant Baba Nand Singh ji on a different thread. Hes a very clever poster, but thats all he has, I really hope Guru Sahib blesses this person with some nirmat and bit of santokh so he doesn't go crazy thinking everyone is after him. First AKJ was after him now Taksal is after him........paranoid much.

If this poster has an issue with Baba ji, then sit down with Taksal Singhs and they can handle him. He can't sit down peacfully himself and then this poster wants to distrub others.

UK = Only5 Paji your devotion to Sikhi is clear cut in my eyes even though on a lot of matters I might disagree with your viewpoint. However, I think you should see N30 Paji's equal devotion to Sikhi. And try to see where you and him actually agree, so that we concentrate on what unites us. Like I'm sure you and N30 both agree that drugs and female foeticide in Punjab are genocides that every Sikh has to join forces on to battle as our present day yudh regardless of what Samparda (or none) that we are affiliated with.

[Only five]

UK = Only5 Paji your devotion to Sikhi is clear cut in my eyes even though on a lot of matters I might disagree with your viewpoint. However, I think you should see N30 Paji's equal devotion to Sikhi. And try to see where you and him actually agree, so that we concentrate on what unites us. Like I'm sure you and N30 both agree that drugs and female foeticide in Punjab are genocides that every Sikh has to join forces on to battle as our present day yudh regardless of what Samparda (or none) that we are affiliated with.

I see your point, but then me and Dhunda would also agree on drugs and female foeticide is wrong. Ask yourself why did he pick out Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji Maharaj Barsi out of everything else going on? I have been discussing with this manipulative person for a very long time. Recently we had a huge discussion on Kumbh mela , where he viciously protected this ritual that goes against Sikhi. Look at the date when Kumbh mela takes place and ask yourself is it similar to Sahibzada Shaheedi days? He never mentioned once that with my vicious protection of this ritual I am on this SIKH YOUTH site overshadowing Sahibzada divas or that those Sikhs who attend this strictly taking part in the bathing and devi puja have overshadowed Sahibzada divas. Instead he protected what Satguru said don't do.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69741-and-so-the-kumbh-mela-begins/page-1

So why pick out Sant ji's Barsi and target Taksal Singhs. There is nothing wrong with Taksal Singhs or AKJ Singhs. This poster first attacked AKJ future Singhs, in the past and now is on a rampage to attack Taksal future Singhs. The Taksal Singhs and AKJ Singhs of today are doing wonderful things with the youth. Most importantly they are doing katha in english and then attaching the english speaking youth to Gurmukhi and Gurbani. Now ask yourself which Gurmukh paved the path for these Taksal Singhs to teach in english. Ask yourself who told these Taksal Singhs to get good jobs and spread Sikhi? Ask yourself who instilled Nirmata into these Taksal Singhs through his actions? This poster has never sat with or served with Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji Maharaj for the Khalsa Panth. Ask those Singhs that served with him or were under Baba ji's guidance. We speak about Bhai Kanhaiya ji as hes only in the past. Sant Baba Thakur Singh Ji Maharaj is the Bhai Kanhaiya ji of our times. Baba ji taught humility to the Singhs under his guidance and today because of Baba ji's guidance these Taksal Singhs are doing an awesome job. So Taksal Singhs will do Sant ji's Barsi and will also remember Sahibzada Shaheedi. Baba ji has taught Taksal Singhs better and the poster is just out to target Taksal Singhs.

The poster has found out that i can say Baba ji is good, but now those that were under his guidance are bad. By saying this he hits two birds with one stone. He wins points by saying Baba ji is good and then takes sangat away from Taksal Singhs to attach them to his twisted thinking of Kumbh mela. If i wanted I could go on for days what the Nanaksar sangat is actually doing wrong on many levels. But i got no ill intentions like this poster.

[Guest]

Shanti!!!

[N30S1NGH]

Those who want to know my stance regarding sant mahapursh due respect and sikh samparda's due respect can read my previous posts both on sa and ss.com, my previous post speak for itself and there is no exaggeration to say sikhawareness.com was the first website forum to have dedicated section regarding sikh saints from all samparda's/jatha's including taksal and sikh sampardava's/jatha which includes taksal. It's hurtful that someone would accuse me of being sant nidak but then again it is expected, first thing people effected with cultish mindset would do is demonize/villify people who they see as a threat to their cultish mindset, its no different than- shoot the messenger first , ask questions later or shoot the messenger all together, ignore the message and burn the witch attitudes protestant people follow...!!

Those who know me, i took amrit from taksal, in fact i vividly remember taking amrit with veer- akaali on this forum (daljit singh), we were together in a row side by side - taking amrit, then i re-took amrit or did peshi at nanaksar as it was my local and also i start getting into nanaksar then as well, but unfortunately with nanaksar i start becoming cultish- not sure whether it was cultish sangat or what at my local- bhramgyani baba gurdev singh ji would only come once a while they were tyagi bairaagi sadhu won't do any bachans, anyway then slowly start getting out from cultish mindset, started with sant isher singh ji rara sahib wale divans, sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib divans, moving to sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale divans, sant baba gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale katha of gurbani (for past year or so). So i have listened to all mahapursh from pretty much all samparda's - took lot of vichar from it and applied to my daily life. So i owe my whole life lot to sadh sangat, sant mahapursh- doing the seva by spreading their bachans for all humanity.

People need to realize listening to sikh saint mahapursh bachans/katha of gurbani/ithas- understanding them in proper context, apply the virtues of their life/dedication/bhagti in one's life is one thing but being follower of them (its fine) but being a follower of them which inadvertently or advertently over shadows gurmat is another, thats what we have to pay caution/ attention. Just like in university classes in teacher classrom- there are all different types of students with different grades, just like that in sikh samparda's/jatha its not different, there are those who are serious and a+ students, then there are students who are there to time pass - hide behind the teacher's glorious name and fame- use them as mere token gestures/propaganda tool to perpetuate and spread their propaganda or agenda and there are students who are innocently naturally thick cannot think outside of box- don't even what box is.Point of this thread is to highlight cultish mindset of people in all jatha's/samparda's listed above how they are inadvertently over shadow actual gurmat with their cultish tendencies and bringing their cultish flame wars on secular forums, mainstream sikh panth stage. This post does not in anway undermine nor its against any senior, serious students in jatha or samparda's who understand tat essence of mahapursh, point of sadh sangat and point of jatha/samparda's.

People can ask any students of sant gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale how strict they were with students, any time passers, lazy, incompetent, bigoted type student with fascism, hate monger type student who hide behind name and fame of mahapursh, double dippers who would use them token gestures were all kicked out.

So cultish tendencies and cultish mindset in the jatha and samparda's is a serious issue. I encourage all senior gurmukhs and serious students of all jatha's/samparda's to do some house cleaning so they don't bring bad names to sant mahapursh and senior gumrukhs. Bad apples in the panth, are taking everyone for ride as long they are in power to herd like minded sheeps like them. its a serious issue back home in punjab and here abroad- cultish chela of mahapursh from all sampardava's/jatha's have fought with other sikhs over sant gaddiyas and control of gurdwaras - bought their petty war to courts and at times violently fought with each other, even killing each other members within their hostile factions. In nihang dals there are members within budda dal killing each other- jathedar balbir singh group and jathedar surjit singh, nirmale- rara sahib, johlan, harkhowale same crap, in nanaksar same crap- over zealous chelas are threatening each other with gun violence in jagroan and baba kundan singh dera and here in winnipeg- some young lad was raped- nanaksar behingumas tried to downplay the incident and try to intimidate the victim, there are three factions of akj in toronto alone- there were fights in dixie gurdwara where jatha singhs grab each other dhara- knocked them dastara, here in BC you have sikh mobs from hostile faction from ISYF and hostile anti-social faction from babar khalsa international, in taksal - ajnala group and dhumma group and previously fight between cultish chelas of sant kartar singh bhindranwale vs cultish chelas of baba mohan singh ji bhindranwale over gaddi fight after sant baba gurbachan singh bhindranwale went to sachkhand, same thing in rara sahib, cultish chelas of sant teja singh ji rara sahib and cultish chelas of sant mohinder singh ji jarg fighting each other over sant gaddi when sant kishan singh maharaj went to sachkhand.!!

It's bloody everywhere, people need to wake up and rise above from cultism in the panth its more damaging to unity and threat to the panth than any external threat combined.

[Guest]

Those who want to know my stance regarding sant mahapursh due respect and sikh samparda's due respect can read my previous posts both on sa and ss.com, my previous post speak for itself and there is no exaggeration to say sikhawareness.com was the first website to have dedicated section regarding sikh saints from all samparda's/jatha's including taksal and sikh sampardava's/jatha which includes taksal. It's hurtful that someone would accuse me of being sant nidak but then again it is expected, first thing people effected with cultish mindset would do is demonize/villify people who they see as a threat to their cultish mindset, its no different than- shoot the messenger first , ask questions later or shoot the messenger all together, ignore the message and burn the witch attitudes protestant people follow...!!

Those who know me, i took amrit from taksal, in fact i vividly remember taking amrit with veer- akaali on this forum (daljit singh), we were together in a row side by side - taking amrit, then i re-took amrit or did peshi at nanaksar as it was my local and also i start getting into nanaksar then as well, but unfortunately with nanaksar i start becoming cultish- not sure whether it was cultish sangat or what at my local- bhramgyani baba gurdev singh ji would only come once a while they were tyagi bairaagi sadhu won't do any bachans, anyway then slowly start getting out from cultish mindset, started with sant isher singh ji rara sahib wale divans, sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib divans, moving to sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale divans, sant baba gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale katha of gurbani (for past year or so). So i have listened to all mahapursh from pretty much all samparda's - took lot of vichar from it and applied to my daily life. So i owe my whole life lot to sadh sangat, sant mahapursh- doing the seva by spreading their bachans for all humanity.

People need to realize listening to sikh saint mahapursh bachans/katha of gurbani/ithas- understanding them in proper context, apply the virtues of their life/dedication/bhagti in one's life is one thing but being follower of them which inadvertently or advertently over shadow gurmat is another, thats what we have to pay attention. Just like in university classes in teacher classrom- there are all different types of students with different grades, just like that in sikh samparda's/jatha its not different, there are those who are serious and a+ students, then there are students who are there to time pass - hide behind the teacher's glorious name and fame- use them as mere token gestures/propaganda tool to perpetuate and spread their propaganda or agenda and there are students who are innocently naturally thick cannot think outside of box- don't even what box is.Point of this thread is to highlight cultish mindset of people in all jatha's/samparda's listed above how they are inadvertently over shadow actual gurmat with their cultish tendencies and bringing their cultish flame wars on secular forums, mainstream sikh panth stage. This post does not in anway undermine nor its against any senior, serious students in jatha or samparda's who understand tat essence of mahapursh, point of sadh sangat and point of jatha/samparda's.

People can ask any students of sant gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale how strict they were with students, any time passers, lazy, incompetent, bigoted type student with fascism, hate monger type student who hide behind name and fame of mahapursh, double dippers who would use them token gestures were all kicked out.

So cultish tendencies and cultish mindset in the jatha and samparda's is a serious issue. I encourage all senior gurmukhs and serious students of all jatha's/samparda's to do some house cleaning so they don't bring bad names to sant mahapursh and senior gumrukhs. Bad apples in the panth, are taking everyone for ride as long they are in power to herd like minded sheeps like them. its a serious issue back home in punjab and here abroad- cultish chela of mahapursh from all sampardava's/jatha's have fought with other sikhs over sant gaddiyas and control of gurdwaras - bought their petty war to courts and at times violently fought with each other, even killing each other members within their hostile factions. In nihang dals there are members within budda dal killing each other- jathedar balbir singh group and jathedar surjit singh, nirmale- rara sahib, johlan, harkhowale same crap, in nanaksar same crap- over zealous chelas are threatening each other with gun violence in jagroan and baba kundan singh dera and here in winnipeg- some young lad was raped- nanaksar behingumas tried to downplay the incident and try to intimidate the victim, there are three factions of akj in toronto alone- there were fights in dixie gurdwara where jatha singhs grab each other dhara- knocked them dastara, here in BC you have sikh mobs from hostile faction from ISYF and hostile anti-social faction from babar khalsa international, in taksal - ajnala group and dhumma group and previously fight between cultish chelas of sant kartar singh bhindranwale vs cultish chelas of baba mohan singh ji bhindranwale over gaddi fight after sant baba gurbachan singh bhindranwale went to sachkhand, same thing in rara sahib, cultish chelas of sant teja singh ji rara sahib and cultish chelas of sant mohinder singh ji jarg fighting each other over sant gaddi when sant kishan singh maharaj went to sachkhand.!!

It's bloody everywhere, people need to wake up and rise above from cultism in the panth its more damaging to unity and threat to the panth than any external threat combined.

Your posts are always good.We think alike!!!I would love to meet you

[chatanga]

Your posts are always good.We think alike!!!I would love to meet you

you cant. he doesnt exist.

[Guest]

[quote name=chatanga" post="565111" time="1357151834]you cant. he doesnt exist.

You mean......He's a ghost?