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Is there GOD?


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Most people used to think the world was flat. What's your point?

Sikhism is only a few hundred years old. So what if you have more followers? Big wup.

Sikhism says that a Muslim should be a good Muslim and a Hindu should be a good Hindu, as all religions teach us to treat each other with respect at their core.

We respect all people of all religions to worship as they please, unlike some religions who believe their prophet is the only one that should be followed.

As Sikhs we believe that the path laid out by our Gurus is the best way to realize God in this life. That's why we are Sikhs.

i dont have any followers. and age of the religion is not the issue. what i am asking is gurbani or sikhism the only path to truth and god. some people say yes but i think you are saying no, there are other paths. is that correct?

therefor my next question is: why is it allowed for some people to smoke, eat meat, drink wine, cut their hair and still acheive unity with god/reach heaven but other people are not allowed to do some or all of these things?

why are people of some religions told in their holy book that only jesus is the way or only mohammed is the way?

either they are following the wrong path or different people have been allowed to follow different paths to reach god?

thanks

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Please don't put words in my mouth. I used to be an atheist and I still love science and its sad people automatically assume religion and science can't coexist.

Knowledge can be used for great good, but can be abused by big businesses and cause many poor to go without health care or food. Same with religion over time the original message of recognizing God and living with divine love has been hijacked by churches and preachers and turned it into somethin the original prophets didn't want.

Here's a big Q to you. Is nitrogen fixation that allows us to make fertilizer good or bad? It's a very deep question. Preferably I'd like you to you think about it and not as much as give me a reply.

It would be wrong to say many people aren't suffering even if we have the power to bring good.

the ability to make fertiliser is definitely good. any skill or talent or any new invention is good, even the atom bomb and the gun. i am anti war but inventions all have their place. it is true that their are problems and side effects with some inventions but that just means there is something new required to be invented or some new problem to solve. the problems of the world are generally caused by people not by inventions or science. if people were more charitable and less blood thirsty or greedy then we have enough to go around for everyone.

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No scientific knowledge was imparted by bhagats in the gurbani.

You should just choose to say that you don't know. There is no harm in accepting that. To arrive at a conclusion that Bhagats didn't impart knowledge in Gurbani you'd have to read and also understand entire Gurbani, which you clearly haven't done, so that comment doesn't count. I could say that rockets are fired by using Diwali fire crackers and refuse to read any book on rocket science. Doesn't make my comment worthy of any recognition, so likewise. Did you even bother to read the book I posted for you?

dont you find it strange that only a tiny minority of people have a shot to get to god?

do you really think they are all wrong and only sikhs are correct? i just want to know your honest views.

why is it allowed for some people to smoke, eat meat, drink wine, cut their hair and still acheive unity with god/reach heaven but other people are not allowed to do some or all of these things?

why are people of some religions told in their holy book that only jesus is the way or only mohammed is the way?

Ok I get it now. You have a problem with the fact that why isn't there just one religion, because science is tired of trying to disprove all of them as there are so many. Well thats how it is my friend. All human beings are not of one type. We are all different in the way Akaal Purakh Vaheguru created us. Or maybe you are wondering which faith is the best one. Well in case you still didn't notice, this is a Sikh forum, so I'll let you figure out which faith all of us will unanimously vote for.

We still don't know if you're a Sikh questioning Gurbani or a non-Sikh questioning Sikhi. You know all about us but we don't know anything about you. We don't even know the root of your questions, what makes/made you question God, why you question Sikhi/Gurbani etc. Please let us know so we can give better answers.

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the ability to make fertiliser is definitely good. any skill or talent or any new invention is good, even the atom bomb and the gun. i am anti war but inventions all have their place. it is true that their are problems and side effects with some inventions but that just means there is something new required to be invented or some new problem to solve. the problems of the world are generally caused by people not by inventions or science. if people were more charitable and less blood thirsty or greedy then we have enough to go around for everyone.

I think the difference between other religions and Sikhism hinges on one thing, falsifiability, as for the question on only few people being able to find god again due to the nature and size of other faiths, well that’s a whole different topic, which is covered within gurbani, its states we all stated of sinless and over time indulged in Maya, this is where gurbani talks about the transition of our minds going from pure to Human like, then to Goast like in kaal jug.

Not everyone had been enticed by maya, people like Guru Gobind singh Jee writes about their love for God and reuniting before kaal jug.

I just wana keep drumming home the point of faith and falsifiability, all other religions are confined to faith, that jesus arose after 3 days or that Mohammed rode to heaven on a unicorn may sound silly thats what horses that fly are called.

Where they are based on faith you are asked to put aside your common sense and rationality and believe extraordinary claims without proof, Guru Nanak Dev jee dispelled all these through Bagthi marag where he layed out in detail how to the see spiritual form of Kaal, how to see the spiritual form Punj Choor, Darma raja.

But yes it’s true that people in our faith have not got to this stage but still believe in this premise, call them what you want. But as said in a previous post anyone that argues from a faith position doesn’t understand Sikhi. And will give examples like it says it hear, or that you cant not know there is isnt a God so there must be, or look at the universe where did it come from someone must have made it. This doesnt resinate with me and nor does it with what my gurus have said, Truth is in doing not in Faith.

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You should just choose to say that you don't know. There is no harm in accepting that. To arrive at a conclusion that Bhagats didn't impart knowledge in Gurbani you'd have to read and also understand entire Gurbani, which you clearly haven't done, so that comment doesn't count. I could say that rockets are fired by using Diwali fire crackers and refuse to read any book on rocket science. Doesn't make my comment worthy of any recognition, so likewise. Did you even bother to read the book I posted for you?

Ok I get it now. You have a problem with the fact that why isn't there just one religion, because science is tired of trying to disprove all of them as there are so many. Well thats how it is my friend. All human beings are not of one type. We are all different in the way Akaal Purakh Vaheguru created us. Or maybe you are wondering which faith is the best one. Well in case you still didn't notice, this is a Sikh forum, so I'll let you figure out which faith all of us will unanimously vote for.

We still don't know if you're a Sikh questioning Gurbani or a non-Sikh questioning Sikhi. You know all about us but we don't know anything about you. We don't even know the root of your questions, what makes/made you question God, why you question Sikhi/Gurbani etc. Please let us know so we can give better answers.

Cant Geo ask questions without, which seems to me being bullied, your not doing a good job on coming across as compassionate.

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Cant Geo ask questions without, which seems to me being bullied, your not doing a good job on coming across as compassionate.

Your friend Mr. Geo is not answering questions I asked on the 1st or maybe 2nd page. This is the 13th page. And my job is not to be compassionate, that should be my nature. If it isn't, too bad for me. If he expects answers, he should give them as well. I am not bullying anyone here, but I am sorry if my tone sounds intimidating, as I don't intend to intimidate either as its not very helpful in a discussion.

I'll try to answer again in a compassionate manner, and based on my limited knowledge and intellect.

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No scientific knowledge was imparted by bhagats in the gurbani. nothing amazing was ever invented in those days, no electricity, no aeroplanes, no cars, no computers, no internet, no radio, no tv, no penicillin, no cure for cancer, no vaccines, no gps.

Not sure what you're trying to get at sir. Are you implying that just because we have these today, therefore we don't need religion or God? With all due respect and compassion, you had no explanation as to howcome Bhagats (who never went to school) had that level of wisdom, besides just saying "No scientific knowledge was imparted by bhagats in the gurbani".

the scientific knowledge imparted and inventions in the 20th century have been far greater than all other centuries combined and what is significant about the timing of this explosion in scientific knowledge and invenstion? no new major religions formed.

Again, what are you trying to get at? Is the conclusion of your debate "Science is better than religion", or "Now we have science to lets get rid of religion"? I am trying to be compassionate in responding as per Sangat's hukam, so please bear with me and disclose your conclusion. Its been 13 pages and we're nowhere close to understanding your sole purpose of putting forth your question.

im not going to argue about the existence of god or not. people have their own beliefs on that matter and no amount or forum talk will persaude them to change their beliefs from one side to another.

With all due respect and compassion, I guess thats why each time someone responds you come up with a new question?

my questions are more to do with religion and the beliefs and ideas of people. i have always been fascinated with what people think and their viewpoints. i like to listen to all views wether i agree with them or not, i find it very interesting. i also like to ask questions to clarify what they are saying but i dont mean to cause any offence.

Thanks for clarifying, point noted.

you are right, knowledge isnt for everyone. some people dont have the storage facilities and it ends up going to waste like too much milk for someone who doesnt have a fridge. I also agree that knowledge and science has not solved global warming, exponential population growth or depletion of natural resources or ended world hunger (although it has helped feed billions)

as far as i can see religion has not solved any of these problems either, caused or made them worse? - yes.

By that logic we should stop making and selling knives as well? They are used to kill people! On the same note, they are also used to cut vegetables, to perform life-saving surgeries too. You should watch the movie called Parzania which is about Gujarat carnage. An American character in the movie says "I couldn't believe that religion which was the cause of so much bloodshed would also turn out to be the solution". It all depends on the way you want to have religion in your life. You can kill in the name of religion,you can also save a life. It all comes down to YOU. Can't really blame a faith if the followers don't get the point.

dont you find it strange that only a tiny minority of people have a shot to get to god?

Sir that is solely your own personal assumption. You're free to have it but I am compassionately afraid that its not true. No one is Dharamraj to decide who gets to God. Is your beef with those who say "my way or the highway" ?

obviously people can convert but lets get real, that is not happening in any great numbers. there are billions of people who beleive they are on the right path but they are all wrong because sikhism is the only way?

For Sikhs yes. Sorry but where have you seen Sikh preachers going around saying all non-Sikhs will go to hell? And by hell here I mean the Semitic version of hell, i.e. eternal damnation.

im sure you know that as deeply as you hold this belief, there are christians out there who deeply believe that the only way to heaven/god is through jesus?

and there are muslims out there who say the only way is through the prophet mohammed and the koran?

do you really think they are all wrong and only sikhs are correct? i just want to know your honest views.

Our honest view with a compassionate smile is that good luck to them. We don't wish any ill upon any of them.

why is it allowed for some people to smoke, eat meat, drink wine, cut their hair and still acheive unity with god/reach heaven but other people are not allowed to do some or all of these things?

why are people of some religions told in their holy book that only jesus is the way or only mohammed is the way?

either they are following the wrong path or different people have been allowed to follow different paths to reach god?

I am not sure which religion "allows" people to smoke or drink wine. I guess it just doesn't prohibit it, doesn't mean it allows them. Meat and cutting hair is a different story though. Christianity possibly does have the wine concept (not sure)?

Look, and I am saying this very compassionately, if you have a problem with the beliefs of Christians and Muslims, please go to their forum and challenge them for looking upto Jesus and Muhammad as the sole messengers of God. Please do not make us badmouth them. For us Guru Sahib is the topmost personality.

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a person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value. It seems to me that what is important is the force of this superpersonal content ... regardless of whether any attempt is made to unite this content with a Divine Being, for otherwise it would not be possible to count Buddha and Spinoza as religious personalities. Accordingly a religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation ... In this sense religion is the age-old endeavor of mankind to become clearly and completely conscious of these values and goals and constantly to strengthen and extend their effect. If one conceives of religion and science according to these definitions then a conflict between them appears impossible. For science can only ascertain what is, but not what should be...

Pehchaan Kaun.........(who said it).

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