The Future Of Gurdwaras In Pakistan

[californiasardar1]

These places aren't really gurdware anymore, a gurdwara is a doorway to the guru. The guru doesn't reside there anymore. Neither does any sangat. A place stays in good condition if it is used. We will fix the gurdware today, but what will happen when they remain closed for a year with no visitors? Slowly the buildings will become derelict. Do you guys really think Guru Nanak Dev Ji would want a building built for him that isn't even used? That money could go to educating our future generations who will carry Sikhi on, not a gurdwara that has no purpose. Didn't Guru Nanak want to educate and teach? Is that not the reason for his udasis?

This will slowly happen to gurdware in East Punjab. Take a look at the drug using youth. Most know nothing about Sikhi. Many pind gurdware are hardly used. I have only seen the buzurg (elderly people) in the gurdwara. Most kids cut their hair. I think we need to focus on keeping Sikhi alive rather than fixing gurdware that are bound to become derelict again. There are Sikhs in Madhya Pradesh etc. that don't have a gurdware, shouldn't we make one for them?

Great points!!!

I totally agree with you

We have become more concerned about "shrines" than keeping Sikhi alive

[rrss]

These places aren't really gurdware anymore, a gurdwara is a doorway to the guru. The guru doesn't reside there anymore. Neither does any sangat. A place stays in good condition if it is used. We will fix the gurdware today, but what will happen when they remain closed for a year with no visitors? Slowly the buildings will become derelict. Do you guys really think Guru Nanak Dev Ji would want a building built for him that isn't even used? That money could go to educating our future generations who will carry Sikhi on, not a gurdwara that has no purpose. Didn't Guru Nanak want to educate and teach? Is that not the reason for his udasis?

This will slowly happen to gurdware in East Punjab. Take a look at the drug using youth. Most know nothing about Sikhi. Many pind gurdware are hardly used. I have only seen the buzurg (elderly people) in the gurdwara. Most kids cut their hair. I think we need to focus on keeping Sikhi alive rather than fixing gurdware that are bound to become derelict again. There are Sikhs in Madhya Pradesh etc. that don't have a gurdware, shouldn't we make one for them?

Very well said, I agree completely. The derelict gurdwaras are certainly an opportunity for introspection about the state of Sikhi, both in Pakistan and East Punjab. Hundreds of gurdwaras falling into disrepair seems to mark end to the 'boom years' of sikhi, where Guru ji's message still was being treated as something really special and important, amongst those born into various faiths or none. Rot has set in and unless proactive steps are taken, these gurdwaras will become ancient monuments, a reminder of a past where spirituality was booming in relative terms.

And yes there are sikhs and/or those open to learning and benefiting from Guru ji's teachings all over india and the world. Resources (time/money etc) if they exist need to go towards maintaining sikhi and promulgating (the taboo surrounding peaceful proselytizing needs to be addressed also). I recently looked at a global map of active gurdwaras- they mostly exist in Indian Punjab and whereever punjabis have settled aboard (mostly canada, usa and UK). Incidentally all these areas have relatively little hunger. Sikhs like to say that langar helps people, but is it really feeding those who need it or is it feeding the (punjabi origin) sangat only? where is the langar in sudan or madhya pradesh where upto 80% of girls under 5 are malnourished? However this is a matter for another thread.

[chatanga]

These places aren't really gurdware anymore, a gurdwara is a doorway to the guru. The guru doesn't reside there anymore. Neither does any sangat. A place stays in good condition if it is used. We will fix the gurdware today, but what will happen when they remain closed for a year with no visitors? Slowly the buildings will become derelict. Do you guys really think Guru Nanak Dev Ji would want a building built for him that isn't even used? That money could go to educating our future generations who will carry Sikhi on, not a gurdwara that has no purpose. Didn't Guru Nanak want to educate and teach? Is that not the reason for his udasis?

This will slowly happen to gurdware in East Punjab. Take a look at the drug using youth. Most know nothing about Sikhi. Many pind gurdware are hardly used. I have only seen the buzurg (elderly people) in the gurdwara. Most kids cut their hair. I think we need to focus on keeping Sikhi alive rather than fixing gurdware that are bound to become derelict again. There are Sikhs in Madhya Pradesh etc. that don't have a gurdware, shouldn't we make one for them?

Very well said, I agree completely. The derelict gurdwaras are certainly an opportunity for introspection about the state of Sikhi, both in Pakistan and East Punjab. Hundreds of gurdwaras falling into disrepair seems to mark end to the 'boom years' of sikhi, where Guru ji's message still was being treated as something really special and important, amongst those born into various faiths or none. Rot has set in and unless proactive steps are taken, these gurdwaras will become ancient monuments, a reminder of a past where spirituality was booming in relative terms.

And yes there are sikhs and/or those open to learning and benefiting from Guru ji's teachings all over india and the world. Resources (time/money etc) if they exist need to go towards maintaining sikhi and promulgating (the taboo surrounding peaceful proselytizing needs to be addressed also). I recently looked at a global map of active gurdwaras- they mostly exist in Indian Punjab and whereever punjabis have settled aboard (mostly canada, usa and UK). Incidentally all these areas have relatively little hunger. Sikhs like to say that langar helps people, but is it really feeding those who need it or is it feeding the (punjabi origin) sangat only? where is the langar in sudan or madhya pradesh where upto 80% of girls under 5 are malnourished? However this is a matter for another thread.

Brothers, you have both made very excellent points. As Sikhs, of course we should be looking at spending any money we have wisely, and to build Gurdwaras where they are needed is a must. But i dont beleive that money would be a issue to get these old gurdwaras repaired.

But...I knew you felt there was a "but" coming, these are no ordinary Gurdwaras, they are a part of our Guru's life, and part of our individual and collective Sikh heritage. So in my understanding, as I have said in my previous post, if we, were not able to resurrect them as Gurdwara's, where Parkash takes place, what about renovating them as Sikh places of interest, like we have the example in the UK, of how the National Heritage Trust has been renovating and repairing old castles and stately homes as part of British heritage and history.

Because you know what the alternative is, let them go once, and they have gone for ever.

Now what would Guru Nanak advise? Of course what rrss said. Guru Sahib would want us to feed the poor. But still money would not be an issue for this project. But what happens when Sikhs in Panjab move away from Sikhi, are we to forget about Sri HariMandir Sahib, Tarn Taran Sahib etc? Of course not.Look at the historic Gurdwara that was demolished by ther radha swamis recently. Why was it demolished? because no Sikhs went there and Parkash wasnt being done properly. But now look that scenario. The Gurdwara is being rebuilt.

Brothers, wherever Gurus have gone, out of Panjab, their name and signs have vanished, ie the Baghdad Gurdwara, even in 1984 Gurdwaras vanished around the country, now this scenario is in our homes. Do whatever you can to help save those holy places and signs of our Guru's before it is too late.

[United]

Chatanga,

Thank you for starting a thread about a very important topic. Having been aware of this issue for quite a while and seeing the Facebook page, this is an issue that I feel strongly about. It
is a shame how Gurdwaras in Indian Punjab are maintained very well where as across the border in Pakistan Punjab, our historical Gurdwaras are crumbling. In our Ardas, we say ‘Sri Nanakana Sahib, te hor Gurdwarian, jinna Panth ton vichoriya gya hai, khulleh Darshan deedar, Seva
sambal da daan Khalsa Ji nu baksho.’

It seems as if the Khalsa Panth is doing very little do bring this part of the Ardas into fruition.

There are in fact many perceivable and unforeseeable obstacles that the Panth would face by attempting to regain control of these important sites. Though we are aware of many of the
historical Gurdwaras, there could may well be far more sites that are not known and would need to be located. However, there is a book called the Historical Sikh Shrines of Pakistan by Iqbal Qaiser in which numerous Gurdwaras have been documented. Locating these historical sites would not be very difficult as we could consult a wide range of sources such as our historical Granths, scholars, people etc.

Many of these Gurdwaras are now used for other purposes such as schools. The problem is that gaining control of these sites could be very difficult. The reason being that while it is easy to suggest that the Khalsa Panth buy back this land, with this could come further complications. Many of the inhabiting institutions may not even want to relocate which could either leave us powerless to act further, or even take legal action which would be very difficult as the majority of Sikhs are not even residents of the areas where these historical sites exist. It may not even be financially viable to buy back and renovate all these sites on such a large scale as there are probably hundreds of such sites in Pakistan- coordination of such a mammoth task would need a lot of resources with a professional attitude. For example, I saw on the site that a Gurdwara that commemorated the visit of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was destroyed and the land was turned into a bus stop. How does the Khalsa Panth work with town planners etc to restore such a site?

With this in mind, the Khalsa Panth would need to act very wisely if it wishes to keep all sites i.e. with careful diplomacy. Though there may be many successful renovations of sites, if they are being used by people unwilling to give up the site to the Panth, further and permanent damage could be caused. For instance, residents may end up altering the structures, defacing frescos and building or even destroy the site to make it look as if there was never a Gurdwara even there. In this case, these sites could vanish forever.

In terms of getting the work done, Kaar Seva would be ideal, but would be too difficult as it would seem unlikely that the Pakistan Government would let such a mass influx of Indian nationals into the country. Perhaps it would be easier to have contractors carry out the building work, although not completely within Sikh tradition, but many Gurdwaras in the West are built this way.I believe that it is important that the original architecture and art of the buildings should be preserved as much as possible. For these the Panth would need to consult people with the right knowledge of preserving old structures and ancient artworks.

I do not believe that it would be difficult to maintain these Gurdwaras at all, provided the right steps are taken. Yes, there would be a lack of sangat, but look at how countries operate
embassies and high commissions in foreign countries. Perhaps the Panth could somehow arrange to have a resident caretaker team of each Gurdwara who could be
posted there for a particular period of time. Personally, I do not feel that it is necessary to have Parkash there at all times, maybe only on certain festivals. The reason being due to the lack of sangat and it may be too difficult to practice proper satkaar at all times. However, maybe these Gurdwaras could be transformed into semi-museums where at least the
significance of the site can be brought to illumination to non-worshippers if the building is not having Parkash of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This would serve the interests of the local residents, Pakistan and perhaps even generate some sort of income for the Gurdwaras. An example is in the UK how many cathedrals charge a small price, sometimes voluntary, to help preserve and maintain themselves.

Though many may argue that there is no point of there being Gurdwaras there as there is no sangat, the issue is that these are places deeply connected to our Guru Sahibs, some of the most famous Sakhian documented in our historical Granths occurred at those sites which are now in ruins. For example, there are many Gurdwaras in Punjab (India) called Damdama Sahib, that commemorate the stay of Guru Sahib for only a few days, which are revered greatly. Why not show the same respect to those Gurdwaras in Pakistan?

The bottom line is, it is betterfor the Panth to show the respect and interest that these sites that have a deep historical and spiritual connection with our Guru Sahib that they deserve now. Otherwise, when they are demolished as planning permission has been approved for some global corporation to build a massive shopping complex, we have no right to be suddenly up in arms- it will be too late.

United

[HSD2]

The state of these Gurdwaras has nothing to do with a loss of spirituality or a lack of care for our Gurus.

It is down to British treachery, Partition, emigration and a lack of power to do anything in West Punjab anymore.

There are hungry people the world over, especially in Pakistan. If you want to do something about the starving in Africa, go for it. But that doesnt mean other things cant be done. Too many cooks spoil the soup, as the saying goes.

If you havent already, join the facebook group. If you have any information on Gurdwaras in Pakistan or photos please post them. If you know anyone who has visitted their ancestral Gurdwara in West Punjab ask them what state it was in and add the information to the group. Finally, tell your friends and other in the Gurdwara. If they dont care, that's fine, but many have no idea about these places and awareness is needed.

[chatanga]

Excellent points made HSD2.

Using people who came from there as 1st hand sources of info is a great idea. I have spoken to many elders who came from Pakistan, but have never asked them about their village Gurdwaras or nearby historical Gurdwaras.

Thanks.

[chatanga]

United, what would be your plan on how to turn this situation around?

Actually, lets hear everyones opinion.

[chatanga]

Asif Ali Bhatti, the descendant of Rai Bullar was on Sikh Channel this morning. He gave a very nice interview on the morning show. He has also said, after a caller called in about the state of Gurdwaras outside of Nankana Sahib, that he has set up an organisation called Sewa Foundation, which will be looking into the restoration of the Gurdwaras around the country. It would be great to see this happen.

[chatanga]

a very heartbreaking song to hear, about loss of Nankana Sahib. The lines wheres he sings " in the future chidren will ask which is the way to that place, what does that place look like, where Guru Nanak was born..."

And to think now that out of 25 millions Sikhs how many of us have seen that holy land, where Guru Ji was born?

[chatanga]

In one country there are these 2 Gurdwaras, both Historical Gurdwaras. One is amazing, yet the other requires YOUR attention, on what YOU want it to be now and for the future. A pile of dust for YOUR children and grandchildren to wonder what it was, or a place where YOUR children and grandchildren can go and see a Gurdwara that is a reminder of their Guru's amazing life.