CONSPIRACY TO DISRESPECT GURUJI EXPOSED!!

[Charan Singh]

Does anyone know why Tapoban closed it? There was no reason as the discussion was very diplomatic.

'panthsewak' was definetly Avtar Singh Hoonjan's chamcha or Avtar Singh Hoonjan himself.

[Guest stopsingh2]

Does anyone know why Tapoban closed it? There was no reason as the discussion was very diplomatic.

'panthsewak' was definetly Avtar Singh Hoonjan's chamcha or Avtar Singh Hoonjan himself.

Yes the chamcha was very defensive and trying to deflect attentio to other non related topics, just like someone would if they had done wrong. Some of the wording he used also made it appear as if he was connected to the Brent Sikh Centre or as you say it was Hoonjan.

[r.kaur]

I have been following this story on many forums and am quite shocked at how people on forums jump to conclusions and don't read the stories or try to understand what people are trying to say. Panthsewak clearly stated in his first post "I'm a regular member of Brent sikh centre sangat." so he must be knowing avtar singh! duh!

I have read various articles on this subject started by R4G and feel it is a shame that the problem is not approached in a proper manner. It looks like you are all doing beadbi to Guruji in one way or another.

R4G is doing a good job but I can not see any sensible person putting forward their message in a proper manner. There are many ways one can to put forward a message on forums and get things done all in a peaceful manner instead of inciting the public to do wrong.

R4G says it posted hundreds of letters to Gurdwaras all over the country and only received 33 replies. Did they try to contact again the organizations that did not reply? How long did they wait for a reply? How many times did they contact them? Maybe the organisations did not receive the letter, I know for a fact on checking sites that many addresses have changed and organizations have closed. They should have followed up and visited and explained peacefully and if beadbi is still being done after that they should take it further – again peacefully.

R4G is inciting the public(especially naujawan) to go and make hungama infront of Guruji in Guruji’s Ghar – is this not beadbi of Guruji and Guruji’s Ghar?

One more point R4G and their members should only write facts, there is a lot of rubbish written on their site on this topic. Mud slinging is no

t Guruji’s way – is it?

If you want to do something for Guruji then do it in a proper manner peacefully as is the Guruji's teachings.

[Respect For Sri Guru Granth Sahi]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

R Kaur Bhenji

We apologise to anyone who feels that we are creating beadbi by our actions. We are not an organisation; we are a network of Young Khalsa who feel that the respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is at its lowest.

Gurdwaras are the centre point of our religious activity. It is essential that the people running Gurdwara's understand their role and the potential impact their activities or actions have on the Sikh community.

If a GuruGhar committee cannot practice what Sikh preaches then what chance do we have of preaching to others?

The declaration letter was sent out in early September, we are 4 weeks into this and reminders will be issued. We have had 35 replies and feel it's a start in the right direction. This is a long term process, however if we find out about potential or occurred beadbi then it will be targeted immediately.

We have approached Avtar Singh Hoonjan in formal manner. Firstly by contacting him on behalf of the campaign and then requesting other Sikh representatives to also speak to him. All have requested a meeting on behalf of the Sangat (not the Campaign or Organisation) to resolve the situation immediately. Avtar Singh Hoonjan has not committed to this and raises other irrelevant issues in reply. He also refuses to acknowledge the situation in writing.

We just want Avtar Singh Hoonjan to take responsibility of his actions, apologise to Guru Ji, the Sadh Sangat and confirm that he will not allow Brent Sikh Centre to be a part of this act ever again. It is nothing personal. We are not taking a political stance again

st the Gurdwara committee and pray they succeed in promoting Sikhi in the Brent borough.

At the end of the day, it's an individual's opinion on how seriously they feel the beadbi carried out by Brent Sikh Centre is. GurSikhs view this as a gross act of sacrilege and will stand against those responsible.

GurFateh!

[Guest stopsingh2]

If you want to do something for Guruji then do it in a proper manner peacefully as is the Guruji's teachings.

Everything has been done peacefully. Have you seen or heard of anyone advocating, inciting or taking part in violent acts ? duh

The Hukumnama was well publicised in the media, all people involved with running of Gurdwara should be aware of it. It is not a new edict.

R4G are in my view trying very hard to resolve the issues in the UK without referring them to the Akal Takht. They could easily refer the matters to the Akal Takht who could then summon Avtar Singh Hoonjan.

Why is panthsewak deliberately trying to deflect attention away from the core issue ? The way he has worded questions on other forums, in my view are an attempt to malign and discredit R4G.

I for one am all for this issue being referred to the Akal Takht unless Hoonjan is serious about resolving it. The Akal Takht could impose any sentence it wants including the guilty receiving lashes, Karah Parshad seva, Joria di seva etc. Of cause Hoonjan could arrange a meeting with R4G and resolve this matter without it getting as far as the Akal Takht.

[r.kaur]

R4G

Thank you for your polite and repectful reply explaining things,this is a much better way then to using OTT headings, I am sure if you had used this manner when you contacted Avtar Singh the outcome would be different. Correct me if I am wrong but his name and numbers was plastered all over the net before you had even spoken to him. I am also a little confused you say that he has not apologised but I have read other posts where it says that he has apologised and it will not happen again, so why have a meeting and put in writing, is this man's word not enough? Also just because he has not contacted you how do you know that he has not dealt with the situation in his own community?

You say that it is not personal but I am afraid the things that you have written about him and the others can be taken as personal attacks and subject to libel. You (and all you out there)should only write facts.

The Hukamnama was declared because a lot of marriages in India were taking place in halls where proper respect was not given to Guruji because meat and drink were being served infront of Guruji . If you read the last para of the Hukamnama it clearly states that you can accompany Guruji in times of happiness and sorrows provided full respect is carried out. There is bit of contradiction going on here or a loop hole? Your photos do not show meat and drink being served in the presence of Guruji or people sitting on chairs or shoes in the presence of Guruji they are not really conclusive. Also did you get permission of the people to publish their pictures on the net?

Its a good cause, act responsibly, educate the people, do it peacefully as the Guruji would have wanted from

his sewaks.

bhul chuk maff

[r.kaur]

stopsingh2

you say "Everything has been done peacefully. Have you seen or heard of anyone advocating, inciting or taking part in violent acts ?"

I beg to differ, advocating and inciting - yes just read some of the past mails.

taking part in violent acts just a matter of time if you don't act responsibly

[V]

stopsingh2

you say "Everything has been done peacefully. Have you seen or heard of anyone advocating, inciting or taking part in violent acts ?" 

I beg to differ, advocating and inciting - yes just read some of the past mails.

taking part in violent acts just a matter of time if you don't act responsibly

Instead of accusing Sevadars, why don't u bring the PROOF that they're doign a loosy job, and are doign beadbi themselves?

Most of the Sangat here is convinced tha nothing wrong is being done - if u wanna change their mind .- do it the RIGHT way and PROVE ur stance, and PROVE ur statements, isntead of makign baseless claims, and just walking away without providing evidence...

So unless u can provide evidence - please do not make baseless alligations...

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Respect For Sri Guru Granth Sahi]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

R.Kaur Bhenji,

http://forums.waheguroo.com/index.ppa?act=...t=ST&f=2&t=6967

It was the above posting which first informed the Sangat that the beadbi was taking place. We also received a phone call informing us that GuruJi had been taken to Vikram's Occasions Palace, followed by several more giving us further details. We collated the information based on the Sangat's responses on this and other forums as well direct conversations with the Sangat.

Bhenji and Panthsewakji, we keep going round in circles, Avtar Singh Hoonjan abused his right as a President of a Gurdwara and had a moral responsibility to abide by the basic rules of Sikhi.

We know he let GuruJi into the Banqueting hall on 18 September.

We know that Brent has previously allowed Guruji's Saroop to be taken to Banqueting Halls in Birmingham and West London.

We know that Tarlochan Singh Grewal allowed GuruJi's Saroop to be taken to C&L Country Club on 22 August 2004.

We know that Satvinder Singh Sarl did keertan at the C&L Country Club on 22 August and at Vikram's Occasions Palace on 18 September.

Vikram's Occasions Palace openly says that they can perform a Sikh wedding ceremony on their premises. As Brent was responsible for performing the ceremony on 18 September then one can conclude that Vikram's link is Brent Sikh Centre.

Every Sikh knows that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the eternal Guru. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji would never have entered these premi

ses. What right do we have to take Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in to these premises ? There's no middle ground, this is wrong and there's no gain from twisting the Hukumnana.

Bhenji, we would be extremely grateful if you could also direct us to Avtar Singh Hoonjan's public apology and confirmation that Brent will no longer be involved in this form of beadbi.

The meeting is required for closure of the issue.

GurFateh!

[GurSa Singh]

you say "Everything has been done peacefully. Have you seen or heard of anyone advocating, inciting or taking part in violent acts ?" 

I beg to differ, advocating and inciting - yes just read some of the past mails.

taking part in violent acts just a matter of time if you don't act responsibly

Oh Come on! Why do people assume when GurSikhs take a stand there will be violence. This is a joke and undermines the concept of the Khalsa.

R Kaur Ji. What are you trying to justify? You are either Avtar Singhs advocate or pardaan of another Gurdwara that carrys out these activities. How blantantly obvious can this be.

All the hukumnama does is highlight an 'obvious beadbi'. With or without a Hukumnama this will be always be wrong.