Question Bout Khalistan - Technicalities

[genie]

I honestly feel Khalistan should be among the last states formed once India starts breaking up and not the first. Hang on, the reason I say this is because I cannot comprehend a bloody holocaust that is a combination of the tragedies Sikhs have already faced in 1947 and 1984, i.e. a holocaust that is worse than both these previous ones. Think about it, when other states have already broken away on the basis of language or culture or whatever reason, people would have become used to the idea of freedom and of various distinct identities. In fact, for the first time ever Indians may (just may) start respecting each other's diversity, and could (for once) dispose off the retarded notion that we're first Indian and then Hindu/Muslim/Sikh/Christian. In such an atmosphere, the rise of Khalistan as a sovereign Sikh state will be looked upon with acceptance by other Indians as they too would have broken off by then.

Wait, I am not saying Sikhs should be a scared minority fearing for their lives, fearing bloodshed, fearing loss of property and wealth etc. No, we've been through the worst already. What I am saying is that once Khalistan arises in the midst of an entity that is already going through a "subcontinent spring" (such as the Arab Spring, lol), the mindset of the general masses would have changed, and it wouldn't be what it was like in 1947 or 1984 (just a speculation added with wishful thinking for a country like India).

I would also want Pakistan broken as they cannot be trusted for a single day once Khalistan has become a reality. West Punjab can remain an entity separate from Khalistan but it should not be Pakistan. Sindh, Baluchistan, Pakhtunkhwa should all be independant entities, thereby lessening the chances of a larger Pakistan causing any trouble for us in future. They might be our Punjabi brothers, but these same Punjabi "brothers" have shown their warm brotherhood to us in 1947 and all those wars they had with India. So its better if their power is comparatively reduced than it is now, for our own good. You don't want the red-capped Jaahil Hameed jumping towards Khalistan moaning Ghazwa-E-Hind on the top of his voice.

Pretty much agree with this argument. Think we as a Sikh brotherhood worldwide need to get our house in order first before we put serious funds into khalistan politicians in india. We do not have any credible khalistan political force there at the moment thats why majority of Sikhs do not vote for pro-khalistan parties. Mr Simranjit maan does his best but he is a spent force and has not groomed younger more educated and political intelligent leaders to take his place... he is not a savy politician tho his heart is in the right place but his political skills are laughable.

What needs to happen first is a manifesto needs to be drawn up to show what a Khalistan would provide for the people compared to what their lives are like under the Indian union govt control then other arguments can be made to win people over. The desire for Khalistan is strong in punjabi Sikhs but when it comes to voting they are less likely to vote for a khalistan party if it can not assure a better life for them after the democratic mandate of independence has been achieved.

As for pakistan breaking up and indian union states breaking away first, while Sikhs wait.....that would be a wise move but would take possible 50years or more.... time is a luxary we dont have. So what are the alternatives.... the best alternative is as you say an indian or should i say desi spring where both pakistan and india have populations rising up to preserve their own ethnic cultural identity and way of life. Evidently such uprising will turn violent and that is where the Sikhs should be ready to fight for their own nation state by forging alliances with major global and regional powers.

[Mehtab Singh]

by forging alliances with major global and regional powers.

A brilliant and a very key point you mention. This is where the Sikh politicians in Canada and UK will have to play their part in a wise way. Whatever it takes, we WILL need some sort of help from the West in terms of politics, diplomacy, not too sure about arms.

So the next question comes to mind, who would want to stand by the Sikhs on a local/regional/global level?

Pakistan is a no-no.

China: too selfish, and since we at the moment don't have anything to offer them in exchange, they won't be of any help either.

Iran: forget about it.

Countries that broke from USSR: oh te aap bhukhe marde sadda ki svaarna ohna ne, lol.

The closest allies I can see are Sikhs in places like Singapore, Malaysia and Australia. The further ones I would say Germany, UK, Canada, possibly even USA. So now some more cards on the table, what else do we brainstorm about?

[guruvah]

I honestly feel Khalistan should be among the last states formed once India starts breaking up and not the first. Hang on, the reason I say this is because I cannot comprehend a bloody holocaust that is a combination of the tragedies Sikhs have already faced in 1947 and 1984, i.e. a holocaust that is worse than both these previous ones. Think about it, when other states have already broken away on the basis of language or culture or whatever reason, people would have become used to the idea of freedom and of various distinct identities. In fact, for the first time ever Indians may (just may) start respecting each other's diversity, and could (for once) dispose off the retarded notion that we're first Indian and then Hindu/Muslim/Sikh/Christian. In such an atmosphere, the rise of Khalistan as a sovereign Sikh state will be looked upon with acceptance by other Indians as they too would have broken off by then.

Wait, I am not saying Sikhs should be a scared minority fearing for their lives, fearing bloodshed, fearing loss of property and wealth etc. No, we've been through the worst already. What I am saying is that once Khalistan arises in the midst of an entity that is already going through a "subcontinent spring" (such as the Arab Spring, lol), the mindset of the general masses would have changed, and it wouldn't be what it was like in 1947 or 1984 (just a speculation added with wishful thinking for a country like India).

I would also want Pakistan broken as they cannot be trusted for a single day once Khalistan has become a reality. West Punjab can remain an entity separate from Khalistan but it should not be Pakistan. Sindh, Baluchistan, Pakhtunkhwa should all be independant entities, thereby lessening the chances of a larger Pakistan causing any trouble for us in future. They might be our Punjabi brothers, but these same Punjabi "brothers" have shown their warm brotherhood to us in 1947 and all those wars they had with India. So its better if their power is comparatively reduced than it is now, for our own good. You don't want the red-capped Jaahil Hameed jumping towards Khalistan moaning Ghazwa-E-Hind on the top of his voice.

mostly youngsters sitting in western countries have strong fantasies of khalistan...

Though i supported it in the past....being PRACTICAL now & reflecting on long term survival......the current model of khalistan sounds absurd to me. Why?

1)Sikhs are minority in punjab itself. Punjabis have drifted away from sikhi .(Live a proper 2-3 months in punjab to understand this point). So, a Sikh state with Sikhs being a minority? (5 Piare system will not and cannot be possible, as the authority wont be recognized) Seculars will rule, Sikhi will take a back seat.

2) A land locked country- will make trade difficult affecting the economy, leaving us with a poor economy. Not to mention lack of natural resources. Along with the under-educated current population. The sad thing is, Punjab was an agriculture society and still is one. This is the very reason Sikhs/Punjabis move out of India/Punjab alltotgether for greener postures abroad.

3)Punjabis/Sikh have endless bickering habbits with endless backbitting as we see in punjab.With such prevailing traits and senseless politicking, countries rarely develope vibrant economies. e.g: India (compared to China)

4)Corruption is deep rooted in desis,a progresive economy is not possible with hardcore corruption habbits.

5) Instability will be prevalent, with various Sikh "sectarianism" around.....they will also compete againts each other for political dominance/power. Lets be honest, people from various groups can even get along well on Sikhsangat, what to talk of in a Sikh state(?!?!?!).

6) Delhi Gurdwaras, Patna Sahib and Hazoor Sahib will be seperated from Panth permanantly. Whichever goverment controls it geographically will also control in politically, causing production of dubious hukamnamas and conflicts. Not to mention the Panth severe difficulties for doing yatra there.

7)Clowns sitting in western countries who talk about Khalistan(and ussually the only ones), if Khalistan is formed, majority wont move to it in the first place, who wants to leave the perks of developed western countries have to offer? (and move to a country whose major economy is still agriculture)

list is endless,,,shall I continue?

8) The only proper place & Organized in Punjab is Chandigarh, that too is run by Central Gov. Shows lack of leadershil and resolve in Punjabis. Even if there is resolve to bring change, there is no MONEY because corruption eats it away.

Ofcourse people are going to hate me, but I am just being PRACTICAL. do reflect on my points and reality..

Deep down I do hope the Khalsa Raaj Bhai Rama Singh jee talk about in his Autobiography comes true....

[guruvah]

The closest allies I can see are Sikhs in places like Singapore, Malaysia and Australia. The further ones I would say Germany, UK, Canada, possibly even USA. So now some more cards on the table, what else do we brainstorm about?

No Country in the world will build alliance with you unless you will benefit them in one way or another. Politics 101.

[Hammertime007]

mostly youngsters sitting in western countries have strong fantasies of khalistan...

Though i supported it in the past....being PRACTICAL now & reflecting on long term survival......the current model of khalistan sounds absurd to me. Why?

1)Sikhs are minority in punjab itself. Punjabis have drifted away from sikhi .(Live a proper 2-3 months in punjab to understand this point). So, a Sikh state with Sikhs being a minority? (5 Piare system will not and cannot be possible, as the authority wont be recognized) Seculars will rule, Sikhi will take a back seat.

2) A land locked country- will make trade difficult affecting the economy, leaving us with a poor economy. Not to mention lack of natural resources. Along with the under-educated current polulation. The sad thing is, Punjab was an agriculture society and still is one. This is the very reason Sikhs/Punjabis move out of India/Punjab alltotgether for greener postures abroad.

3)Punjabis/Sikh have endless bickering habbits with endless backbitting as we see in punjab.With such prevailing traits and senseless politicking, countries rarely develope vibrant economies. e.g: India (compared to China)

4)Corruption is deep rooted in desis,a progresive economy is not possible with hardcore corruption.

5) Instability will be prevalent, with due to various Sikh "sectarianism". Lets be honest, people from various groups can even get along well on Sikhsangat, what to talk of in a Sikh state.

6) Delhi Gurdwaras, Patna Sahib and Hazoor Sahib will be seperated from Panth permanantly. Whichever goverment controls it geographically will also control in politically, causing production of dubious hukamnamas and conflicts. Not to mention the Panth severe difficulties for doing yatra there.

7)Clowns sitting in western countries who talk about Khalistan(and ussually the only ones), if Khalistan is formed, majority wont move to it in the first place, who wants to leave the perks of developed western countries have to offer? (and move to a country whose major economy is still agriculture)

list is endless,,,shall I continue?

8) The only proper place & Organized in Punjab is Chandigarh, that too is run by Central Gov. Shows lack of leadershil and resolve in Punjabis. Even if there is resolve to bring change, there is no MONEY because corruption eats it away.

Ofcourse people are going to hate me, but I am just being PRACTICAL.

Deep down I do hope the Khalsa Raaj Bhai Rama Singh jee talk about in his Autobiography comes true....

I would say Number 2 is your strongest Point, the rest happens in every other country apart from 6 and 8

[guruvah]

I would say Number 2 is your strongest Point, the rest happens in every other country apart from 6 and 8

happens in every country, but minimal is well administered country.(politically and economy wise) punjab is just out of hand.

[Hammertime007]

Theres two types of Khalistan talk bout 1. Federial/Autonmous ,and complete 2 seperate country.

1. is possible , 2 would be a disaster.

[Hammertime007]

mostly youngsters sitting in western countries have strong fantasies of khalistan...

Though i supported it in the past....being PRACTICAL now & reflecting on long term survival......the current model of khalistan sounds absurd to me. Why?

1)Sikhs are minority in punjab itself. Punjabis have drifted away from sikhi .(Live a proper 2-3 months in punjab to understand this point). So, a Sikh state with Sikhs being a minority? (5 Piare system will not and cannot be possible, as the authority wont be recognized) Seculars will rule, Sikhi will take a back seat.

2) A land locked country- will make trade difficult affecting the economy, leaving us with a poor economy. Not to mention lack of natural resources. Along with the under-educated current population. The sad thing is, Punjab was an agriculture society and still is one. This is the very reason Sikhs/Punjabis move out of India/Punjab alltotgether for greener postures abroad.

3)Punjabis/Sikh have endless bickering habbits with endless backbitting as we see in punjab.With such prevailing traits and senseless politicking, countries rarely develope vibrant economies. e.g: India (compared to China)

4)Corruption is deep rooted in desis,a progresive economy is not possible with hardcore corruption habbits.

5) Instability will be prevalent, with various Sikh "sectarianism" around.....they will also compete againts each other for political dominance/power. Lets be honest, people from various groups can even get along well on Sikhsangat, what to talk of in a Sikh state(?!?!?!).

6) Delhi Gurdwaras, Patna Sahib and Hazoor Sahib will be seperated from Panth permanantly. Whichever goverment controls it geographically will also control in politically, causing production of dubious hukamnamas and conflicts. Not to mention the Panth severe difficulties for doing yatra there.

7)Clowns sitting in western countries who talk about Khalistan(and ussually the only ones), if Khalistan is formed, majority wont move to it in the first place, who wants to leave the perks of developed western countries have to offer? (and move to a country whose major economy is still agriculture)

list is endless,,,shall I continue?

8) The only proper place & Organized in Punjab is Chandigarh, that too is run by Central Gov. Shows lack of leadershil and resolve in Punjabis. Even if there is resolve to bring change, there is no MONEY because corruption eats it away.

Ofcourse people are going to hate me, but I am just being PRACTICAL. do reflect on my points and reality..

Deep down I do hope the Khalsa Raaj Bhai Rama Singh jee talk about in his Autobiography comes true....

Back to Point 2, is not just trade that could be restricted, Sikhi itself would as in India it would gridlocked in Khalistan, few weeks ago Sikh Chan showed a Villiage in South India where 50 odd people converterd to Sikhi, why cos we have the freedom to spread and educate our religion.

At the moment we have representation all over india, make a seperat country we are in just one state.

[Jonny101]

Khalistan, an independent Punjab or Khalsa Raaj will come. But Sikhs need to prepare themselves for it. We need to make ourselves worthy of this Halemi Raaj by remembering our true purpose of being blessed with SIkhi and following Guru Jee's hukams because in following Guru Jee's hukams one will get Guru Jee's kushi and blessings. With His blessings, He will bestow us with Raaj.

[VanHelsingh]

So the next question comes to mind, who would want to stand by the Sikhs on a local/regional/global level?

One thing is for sure: we can't be 'sache puttar' and then get left looking like idiots (when such alliances invariably turn sour sooner or later) when forging these alliances. We've got to be two steps ahead of any potential ally, because I can guarantee you THEY will be three steps ahead of us, lol. As long as the alliance is strong, then we should behave honourably, but when you get wind of chalakhiyan or betrayal, always consider your own side first, but equally don't make life-long enemies because you never know whose door you'll have to knock on in the future! Does this kind of mentality and approach sound like the kind of thing we're capable of? I'll reserve judgement on that, hahaha.