Singh And Kaur As Surename

[BarinderSingh]

From 4th Guru onwards it was the Sodhi parivaar, not Rai. Yes, no harm knowing your background, but it has zero place besides information in Sikhi and this has been repeated over and over again throughout Gurbani.

ime. Ram Chander married Sita. From this union two sons were born, Lav and Kush. Sitas sons, Lav and Kush, both became kings. Two cities were raised in Punjab, one by Lav, Lahore, and the other by Kush, Kasur. Both became very famous. Kush and lav reigned for a long time. Their sons and grandsons also became rulers. It is mentioned that Kushs descendent, Kalket and Lavs decendent, Kalrai had innumerable sons. Kalket possessed peerless strength, and expelled Kalrai from the city of Lahore. He fled to Sanaudh country (south of Delhi), where he married the kings daughter. The son born in his house of that marriage was named Sodhi Rai. The Sodhi clan began from that time The sons and grandsons, who sprung from Sodhi Rai, were all called Sodhis; the Almighty Lord extended the clan further. They became very distinguished among men and their wealth increased day by day. They exercised independent sway and conquered the kings of many countries. (29). They spread religion every where, caused umbrellas to wave over their heads. Sodi Rai, who had become a king, had two sons, named Jagat Rai and Prithvi Rai. Appointing Prithvi Rai as Raja, Sodhi Rai took his elder son Jagat Rai and made invasion of Lahore.

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/sridasamgranthsahib/bediandsodhidynasties.html

They where sodhi but just like any linage there is a rift where sons create there on family linage using different last names. As is the case in Sodhis where one side started using Rai.

[Malwai]

When i see such issues bringing up again and again, it is always meant to be against jatts, believe me or not that is the main reason of caste talks here and there and the reason is because of stupid fake culture created by society/signers etc. Jatts in punjab are now nothing but a naive people who are living in a fake 'bubble' created by society. If they were what society shows them to be then they won't be stuck in debt, unparta and so on.

According to real caste issue of India, jatts are certainly not on the top list. So we first need to learn what the real caste fight our gurus fought. Jatts are on the third spot and it was because of sikhi that all were treated much better than 500+ years ago. Our gurus fought to bring zero difference between 1 and 4.

1. Brahmin (Religous Pandits - sharma etc)

2. Khatri - (business class - chawla, sodhi, bedi, chadha, suri etc..)

3. Vaaish - (worker/fighter class - gill, sandhu, sidhu etc..)

4. Shoodar - (chooray, chamakar etc)

I use my last name as singh only but my brother choose to use our family name. But then again i wear my turban and my brother doesn't. So, now to me having him as mona is bigger thing to worry about rather than the last name he use. So, in our society we have other bigger issues to tackle before we waste our energy on senseless issues like this.

That's the problem see, Jatts are not a caste, they are a people/ethnic group based on common ancestry. Jatt's do not feature in any caste system. The Hindu caste system never really gained much of foothold in Punjab due to it's geographic position being the gateway to the Indian subcontinent with constant marauders and invaders from the West.

There does seem to be a constant infatuation with Jatts on the forum, which is a shame as it takes the spotlight away from more pressing and important subjects that should be discussed.

[scali]

Nothing has any meaning you give meaning to everything and experience that physically

Call yourself singh, khalsa, jatt, tarkhan, Chamar........... Since all truths are subjective because it is filtered by our individual minds. We see what we want to see. So essentilally its like you decide what want to experience , because you will create it physical in your experience. Hint you are GOD indiviualized.

[Sewadar]

Moving to INTELLECTUAL DISCUSSIONS

[BobbyMann75]

Can we converse without insults or derision. Come on lets have some pyar on here, respectfully make points please. We shouldn't be mocking anyone, when you are filled with love for Waheguru, you treat all of his creation with the utmost respect. If we can't even unite on a forum what hope is there for unity of the panth.

[Mehtab Singh]

ime. Ram Chander married Sita. From this union two sons were born, Lav and Kush. Sitas sons, Lav and Kush, both became kings. Two cities were raised in Punjab, one by Lav, Lahore, and the other by Kush, Kasur. Both became very famous. Kush and lav reigned for a long time. Their sons and grandsons also became rulers. It is mentioned that Kushs descendent, Kalket and Lavs decendent, Kalrai had innumerable sons. Kalket possessed peerless strength, and expelled Kalrai from the city of Lahore. He fled to Sanaudh country (south of Delhi), where he married the kings daughter. The son born in his house of that marriage was named Sodhi Rai. The Sodhi clan began from that time The sons and grandsons, who sprung from Sodhi Rai, were all called Sodhis; the Almighty Lord extended the clan further. They became very distinguished among men and their wealth increased day by day. They exercised independent sway and conquered the kings of many countries. (29). They spread religion every where, caused umbrellas to wave over their heads. Sodi Rai, who had become a king, had two sons, named Jagat Rai and Prithvi Rai. Appointing Prithvi Rai as Raja, Sodhi Rai took his elder son Jagat Rai and made invasion of Lahore.

http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/sridasamgranthsahib/bediandsodhidynasties.html

They where sodhi but just like any linage there is a rift where sons create there on family linage using different last names. As is the case in Sodhis where one side started using Rai.

Yes I know that, its from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee. We do know the background of Guru Sahibaan (1st Guru's family was Bedi, 2nd Guru's was Trehan, 2rd Guru's was Bhalla and 4th Guru onwards Sodhi), however none of the Gurus have been referred to using those names. Even in Gurbani these family names are mentioned only as a means of information, and none of the Gurus are ever referred by their surnames, that is my only point.

[West London Singh]

ie I Have noticed that The Bhatra Sikh community in particular nearly always ie in 99% of cases have Singh or Kaur as their official surname. You will rarely see that they keep any other surnames. But Ive noticed That the Jatt community nearly always have their family names and never have Singh or Kaur as their last name. They will not even have Singh or Kaur as a middle name.

Brother, both the statements you made above are untrue.

I don't know where you've been 'noticing' bhatra surnames but most of the ones I encounter use surnames such as Rathore, Potiwal, Digwa, Bhakar etc.

I don't know where you've gone to 'notice' that jatt sikhs don't have Kaur and Singh as their middle names because I've never met one that doesn't in my whole life.

More often than not, villages in Punjab are named after the jatt clan that founded the village. Thus, jatt surnames denote which village they are from.

Now....the thing is....it's all very well starting threads which allude to being 100% against 'caste'. You can get away with it too when you rely on the general ignorance of people not knowing what your username actually means. Where the ruse falls apart is when knowledgable people such as myself appear and ask how someone that calls himself 'tera' (another name for Bhatra) in his username can start a thread supposedly against 'caste'.

As a side note, I do wish to ask a question you may be able to help me with. In my line of work I do regularly have dealings with bhatra sikh females. As a rule, a very large number of them sem to have Hindu first names such as Geeta, Seema and Laxmi etc. In passing I've mentioned it one or two of them and they told me they were from Delhi before they married a british bhatra male and it was common for them to share a sikh and hindu identity as bhatra sikhs believe that Sikhi as sikhi is supposed to be practiced is only for men....NOT women.

Can you shed some light ?

[BarinderSingh]

Yes I know that, its from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jee. We do know the background of Guru Sahibaan (1st Guru's family was Bedi, 2nd Guru's was Trehan, 2rd Guru's was Bhalla and 4th Guru onwards Sodhi), however none of the Gurus have been referred to using those names. Even in Gurbani these family names are mentioned only as a means of information, and none of the Gurus are ever referred by their surnames, that is my only point.

Yes, so Rai in Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib jis name is a last name and so is for Sri Guru Gobind Rai before taking amrit.

[sat]

sant jana mil har jas gayo

kot janam keh dukh gavayo.

[InderjitS]

Just because someone uses their Surname does not make them caste proud and I'm totally against people who frequently bash Punjabis, where did they sprout from originally? Not all Punjabis are alcoholics, womanisers, listen to gandhe gaaney etc. If people want to marry in caste or out of caste for instance its their choice and they should not feel pressured to choose one way or another. The choice should be based on jeevan, similar interests and not pride.