Punjabi Language

[JagsawSingh 860]

Bhatra Punjabi is more clear direct and better prounicated then Muslim Punjabi.

Punjabi knows no religious or caste boundaries. For example, there are 2 or 3 districts in Pakistan where the majority accent / dialect is the same doaba dialect that I speak (for those Muslims originated from Jalandhar which pre-partition had a Muslim majority). Even here in the UK, so many of my wife's Pakistani friends speak exactly the same way that she does. Partition turned everything upside down. For example, I can talk to a Sikh in Delhi and 9 times out of 10 I'll hear a Punjabi voice which history says belongs in Lahore. Then again I can go deep into Pakistan into Faisalabad and talk to a Muslim there but 9 times out of 10 I'll hear a Punjabi voice that history says belongs in Jalandhar. It is a special language. It knows no caste or creed.

[jkvlondon 6,672]

Yes I know what you mean and that is a very sweet mitti mitti Punjabi but I would wander if that is the way Punjabi is supposed to be. You see, as well as being a truly ancient language (900 years older than Hindi and 1900 years older than Urdu) Punjabi is truly unique in that it is the only tonal language in the whole of south Asia. In that tonal regard, it is one of a rare select group of very few languages including Finnish and some Chinese languages). I would suggest that it is supposed to be spoken in the way that South Koreans speak their language...i.e with loud emotion and pitches which give the outsider the impression that the speaker is arguing. I'm really not a fan of this whole monotone emotionless mitti style thats creeping in with the influence of Hindi and Urdu. Thats not the way Punjabi is supposed to be spoken.

My Mum's nanakey is lahut badhi and my Mamey fro that pind speak animatedly like most punjabis but they use language which seems more in common with the style of nihangs i.e. no swearing and mitta in terms of not boastful, loud or brash i.e. more like Guru ji's advises us to speak . Of course My family includes those who talk in 'dus pind avaz' even off the phone my saki Masi is one, she's toned down since coming back from Jalandhar but slips back. I enjoy listening to tet Punjabi it is karrahri

[acsap 295]

Yes I know what you mean and that is a very sweet mitti mitti Punjabi but I would wander if that is the way Punjabi is supposed to be. You see, as well as being a truly ancient language (900 years older than Hindi and 1900 years older than Urdu) Punjabi is truly unique in that it is the only tonal language in the whole of south Asia. In that tonal regard, it is one of a rare select group of very few languages including Finnish and some Chinese languages). I would suggest that it is supposed to be spoken in the way that South Koreans speak their language...i.e with loud emotion and pitches which give the outsider the impression that the speaker is arguing. I'm really not a fan of this whole monotone emotionless mitti style thats creeping in with the influence of Hindi and Urdu. Thats not the way Punjabi is supposed to be spoken.

I keep hearing that Punjabi is tonal, but I have my doubts. I can think of maybe two words in Punjabi that is tonal. Please give me some examples of Punjabi words which people think can be tonal.

[JagsawSingh 860]

I keep hearing that Punjabi is tonal, but I have my doubts. I can think of maybe two words in Punjabi that is tonal. Please give me some examples of Punjabi words which people think can be tonal.

You'll have to ask a linguist, my friend, for I am just a curious amateur historian but I'm sure you'll agree that if our rhythm, pitch and length of delivery changes the meaning of a word than it must be a tonal language ?

[acsap 295]

You'll have to ask a linguist, my friend, for I am just a curious amateur historian but I'm sure you'll agree that if our rhythm, pitch and length of delivery change the meaning of a word than it must be a tonal language ?

Yes, I will ask a linguist:). Rhythm and pitch are just accents, and that is not tonal.

[JagsawSingh 860]

Yes, I will ask a linguist:)

Yes, ask a cunning one like yourself.

Rhythm and pitch are just accents,

No. Accents are just accents. Accents don't change the meaning of a word. Its just the same word said in a different accent.

Do you not speak Punjabi ?

[JRoudh 14]

Punjabi knows no religious or caste boundaries. For example, there are 2 or 3 districts in Pakistan where the majority accent / dialect is the same doaba dialect that I speak (for those Muslims originated from Jalandhar which pre-partition had a Muslim majority). Even here in the UK, so many of my wife's Pakistani friends speak exactly the same way that she does. Partition turned everything upside down. For example, I can talk to a Sikh in Delhi and 9 times out of 10 I'll hear a Punjabi voice which history says belongs in Lahore. Then again I can go deep into Pakistan into Faisalabad and talk to a Muslim there but 9 times out of 10 I'll hear a Punjabi voice that history says belongs in Jalandhar. It is a special language. It knows no caste or creed.

I dont think Muslims speak pure or genuine Punjabi because of the them mixing urdu with it and hence they speak a diluted version. They also are arabic origin hence they dont have the full grasp of the language as it is not in their true heritage. they speak a hindi /urdu punjabi hybrid language. ie they lost the original form of the language when the mughals converted them to islam and hence they mixed the arabic languages.

Bhatras on the other hand speak Punjabi like its meant to be spoken with correct pronunciation and passion. This type of Punjabi cannot be learned. It is passed on from generation to generation.I have never met a punjabi Hindu/muslim or anyone that can speak as eloquently or correctly as Bhats. This is because by profession we were poets/bards. We were known to be very good at talking.

[acsap 295]

Yes, ask a cunning one like yourself.

No. Accents are just accents. Accents don't change the meaning of a word. Its just the same word said in a different accent.

Do you not speak Punjabi ?

As you said, you are not a linguist, so let it go.

Yes, I am a very good Punjabi speaker.

[Mehtab Singh 3,958]

For some reason I've always felt that the Punjabi spoken in Pakistan is comparatively "softer" and/or "sweeter" than what we speak in East Punjab, as ours seems to be more "aggressive" in one way or another. Even in Gurbani you'd find dialects of Punjabi spoken in various regions of Punjab. For example, Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Hosi is typical Lahori Punjabi and is still spoken by Sikhs who moved from Pakistan in 1947. Then we have Ann Devta Paani Devta Baisantar Devta Loon, here Loon refers to salt, the Doabi accent, while Malwai would be Noon.

This reminds me of a real life funny incident. A very close friend of mine who happens to be from my neighboring pind in Doaba was a student at Guru Nanak Dev University in Amritsar. Now this guy is an Amritdhari Singh, and what you'd call a darshani Singh (i.e. proper Gursikh). When he moved to Amritsar, he had an issue with the slang. One day he commented "chalo kothhay te challiye", now "kothha" in Doaba would mean terrace, but in Amritsar it meant sort of an inappropriate dance bar where girls would do mujra, the same word they use in Bollywood as well. So his buddies cracked up and said "yaar dekhan nu te tu gyani aa, te galla kothhay diyaan!"

I always found this not just funny but also very cool and interesting how one word in a particular language or dialect within a single language could have a completely different meaning in another language or sub-dialect.

By the way, here is another interesting video from apna Stephen...

[StarStriker 1,062]

I dont think Muslims speak pure or genuine Punjabi because of the them mixing urdu with it and hence they speak a diluted version. They also are arabic origin hence they dont have the full grasp of the language as it is not in their true heritage. they speak a hindi /urdu punjabi hybrid language. ie they lost the original form of the language when the mughals converted them to islam and hence they mixed the arabic languages.

.

So much wrong with that u have written.

1st of all panjabi muslims r not of arab origin, if they r, then wat r we? We have same surnames, blood/dna n features as they do. Also id say that them not havin a full grasp of panjabi is bit unfair, since a lot of poetry/stories written in panjabi folklore r by panjabi muslims. And they only started losing their love for panjabi during the 1920's onwards, as the muslim league were tryin 2 put panjabi muslims on a seperate path to sikh n hindu panjabis, which would lead to clear segregation n eventually a seperate homeland, which turned out to be a great tactic by them. If anything, hindus gave up panjabi earlier than muslims of panjab. The village type muslims carried on speakin panjabi tho, as they, like sikhs, were more village orientated, compared to hindus, who have always been more urbanfied. Then after partition, the pak panjabis completely abondoned panjabi, shamelessly. A pak commentator (tareq fata)summed it up well, wen he says, that ppl in power have made w.panjab into urdustan, and will only speak panjabi, wen they shout at their house cleaner, or wen theyve drank some fine wine.

[Mehtab Singh 3,958]

will only speak panjabi, wen they shout at their house cleaner, or wen theyve drank some fine wine.

That is true for urban Punjabis in north India as well.

[StarStriker 1,062]

For some reason I've always felt that the Punjabi spoken in Pakistan is comparatively "softer" and/or "sweeter" than what we speak in East Punjab, as ours seems to be more "aggressive" in one way or another. Even in Gurbani you'd find dialects of Punjabi spoken in various regions of Punjab. For example, Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, Hosi is typical Lahori Punjabi and is still spoken by Sikhs who moved from Pakistan in 1947. Then we have Ann Devta Paani Devta Baisantar Devta Loon, here Loon refers to salt, the Doabi accent, while Malwai would be Noon.

Tbh khalsa ji, im quite disappointed that sikhs who left w.panjab, n spoke with different vocab/accents, didnt maintain them and speak it proudly n even spread it into wherever they were re-located after partition (panjab/haryana/UP/delhi). Bcoz most khatris for example lived in rawalpindi areas, and moved to delhi, but yet u speak to them, and their panjabi accent has been swallowed up n they have become to absorbed into our accents, which is a huge shame.

[StarStriker 1,062]

That is true for urban Punjabis in north India as well.

Thats a shame to hear mate, tbh, we r rural waleh, so i have no idea bowt city waleh. Altho i will say this, jalandhar is hindi central, which is sad.

[jkvlondon 6,672]

Thats a shame to hear mate, tbh, we r rural waleh, so i have no idea bowt city waleh. Altho i will say this, jalandhar is hindi central, which is sad.

that's because in their rush to comply with perceived success they decide to leave their own roots , 'akaal dakey jini nahin hagae' the other thing I've noticed my Indian cousins cannot read Gurmukhi they can only read hindi script which I find irritating to look at let alone try to read , somehow it feels wrong to me ... maybe the namak <banned word filter activated> aspect of panjabi hindus is in my subconcious mind

[JRoudh 14]

So much wrong with that u have written.

1st of all panjabi muslims r not of arab origin, if they r, then wat r we? We have same surnames, blood/dna n features as they do. Also id say that them not havin a full grasp of panjabi is bit unfair, since a lot of poetry/stories written in panjabi folklore r by panjabi muslims. And they only started losing their love for panjabi during the 1920's onwards, as the muslim league were tryin 2 put panjabi muslims on a seperate path to sikh n hindu panjabis, which would lead to clear segregation n eventually a seperate homeland, which turned out to be a great tactic by them. If anything, hindus gave up panjabi earlier than muslims of panjab. The village type muslims carried on speakin panjabi tho, as they, like sikhs, were more village orientated, compared to hindus, who have always been more urbanfied. Then after partition, the pak panjabis completely abondoned panjabi, shamelessly. A pak commentator (tareq fata)summed it up well, wen he says, that ppl in power have made w.panjab into urdustan, and will only speak panjabi, wen they shout at their house cleaner, or wen theyve drank some fine wine.

They may have started out as Hindu punjabis or other native indian races. But they were then converted to Islam and mixed with the arab invaders. Because of this they follow Arab traditions, language ect such as urdu.

I don’t know what you are as I am not an expert on every Sikhs ancestry.

Speaking for myself, we are are pure Punjabis and our language is not a mix of other languages as is the case of Muslim Punjabis. Ie we have no other influence on our spoken Punjabi. Such as Persian, urdu ect.

This has not changed from the times of the earliest native Punjabis that we are descended from such as the North Indian Hindu Brahmins.