Hindus Wearing The Kara

[DTF]

I created the topic to tell other Sikhs out there that Hindus, whether they be Sehajdhari or not, do in fact wear the Kara BECAUSE they attend the gurdwara, not mainly because they want to show off, which lots of people seem to think.

= I agree that sehajdhari Sikhs who attend the Gurdwara but who come from what nowadays the RSS and VHP would wrongly classify as Hindu families should be considered as ordinary members of the Sikh Sangat and are fully entitled to wear the Kara (which indeed was always worn by the Sikhs that did so mindful of its defensive capabilities in one on one combat).

Hindus are just normal people who share a great load of respect for Sikhs and share no hatred against Sikhs

= I agree with the caveat that most decent so-called Hindu's are in fact sehajdhari Sikhs. Once this fact is acknowledged (by all) greater amity between people should ensue as a natural positive consequence.

, unless provoked, like what some people in this forum are trying to do with me.

= If i may say on behalf of StarStriker, I don't believe he is out to provoke deliberately but there is a weariness in some Sikh ranks of certain so-called Hindu's that appear to preach unity but then denigrate Sikhi via deliberate misinterpretations of its Truth. I am not accusing you of that as I consider you a fellow Sikh and I sincerely hope that yourself and StarStriker can in time amicably view each other as brother Sikhs so that we can unite to fight common societal problems (as it is our duty to do as Sikhs).

And my information about early Sikhism (Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji - Sri Guru Teg Bahadur Ji) being an early reformist movement to alter the evils of Hinduism and go back to the Vedic roots, I got that from a comment a Sikh made on "Daily Sikh Updates" on Facebook, on the topic of whether Sikhs are Hindus. I saw another comment almost similar to this as well, written by another Sikh though.

= I would be wary of relying too heavily on facebook scholars. It is certainly true that Sikhi rejects the evils of Hinduism. Similarly, Sikhi rejects the evils of Islam. Therefore, it would be similarly incorrect if Muslims were to consider Sikhi a reform movement of Islam. Pillars of Islam and Hinduism are similarly rejected and thus Sikhi clearly derives from neither.

At the end he concluded that Sikhs practice Hinduism in the Sikh way, and therefore Sikhs are not Hindus.

= The reality my friend is that there no such homogenous entity as Hinduism - there is merely a collection of traditional theologies (often competing) which are clubbed together for want of a better word as Hinduism. Sikhs wholeheartedly reject the Arabic word which refers to a black-skinned thief ("Hindu") and as such can never be considered as practitioners of Hinduism given that fasts, pilgrimages, God in human form (avtars), caste discrimination, etc are all rejected by Sikhi.

Hindu taqiyya? Lying? Wait, who lies to others that they love the "Mallesh" (if you know what I mean) when in fact they still hold a 300 year-old grudge on them? Oath. That ring a bell?

= By Hindu taqiyya, i believe that refers to a certain minority of Hindu's deliberately distorting Sikh history (as Muslim apologists are famous for doing taqiyya). I do not accuse you as a sehajdhari Sikh of doing that and I believe that you are a genuine person (but albeit perhaps slightly misinformed about what Sikhi's origins and true agenda are). For example, Sikhi teaches us to hold no grudge against anybody innocent ... the famous "nirbhau nirvair" ... in the Mool Mantar clearly instructs that we should be like Ik Onkar (without hate). There is no oath in Sikhi against the innocent people of any religion and that can be seen day in day out where tens of millions of poor people irrespective of faith are fed Langar without any conversionary pressure in the largest daily charitable exercise to be seen in India and indeed globally.

And you're talking about the Indian government changing Sikh history, I just heard about that now. But again, that was the previous government.

= Yes it was previous governments since Nehru took control in 1947 to the present but do be aware my friend that the BJP will not reverse this process and in fact given the number of influential Hindutva revisionists within their ranks it is likely they will accelerate this revisionist trend to glorify Hindutva.

Furthermore, if you think that "Hindus" or "Hindutva agents" are changing Sikh history, clearly you're wrong.

= I don't think 900million so-called Hindu's are attempting to change Sikh history en masse at all but I do believe that there are a small but powerful and influential number of Hindutva revisionists attempting to malign Sikh history. It is our duty to fight this trend and in fact patiently explain that the majority of the 900million so-called Hindu's are in fact good people and natural born sehajdhari Sikhs.

The previous Congress government didn't teach Indians about the atrocities the Mughals committed on the local Indians, instead they "glorify the Mughals" and make it seem as if before the Mughals India was an uncivilized place. So how can you say that Hindus are altering Sikh history? It was the Congress.

= Agreed. Blanket use of the word Hindu must be very cautiously guarded against given that the majority future growth in the Sikh Panth's population in immediate forthcoming decades is likely to be from previously so-called Hindu ranks. My experience of so-called HP's is that the majority in fact attend Gurdwara (and are therefore Sikhs) and it is only a small minority of vocal but influential Hindu Punjabi's who utterly despise Sikhs, celebrating June 1984 and the subsequent Genocide of Sikhs to give a bad name to their peers from a similar community background. Ie the odd HP Khatri, HP Brahmin or HP Rajput vehemently hates us and some of us unfortunately too readily forget to highlight the ancestral communities of great Gursikhs like Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa, Bhai Mati Das, Bhai Sati Das, Banda Singh Bahadur etc in educational response. The best way to destroy the lies of this evil minority of Hindu Punjabi's is to educate more and more ordinary so-called Hindu's so that more and more openly join the Sikh Panth and feel welcome in the Sikh Panth in order to advance the agenda of Sarbat Da Bhala.

You can keep on hating on Hindus for all your life, but there are Hindus like me out there who love Sikhs and a minority of Hindus who know the truth about the oath who also love Sikhs.

= No Sikh is permitted to hate innocent members of any religion whether they be Hindu, Muslim or Christian etc. I do not believe StarStriker hates Hindu's at all but i do believe that a certain minority of rabid Hindu Punjabi's against Sikhi (or possibly Pakistani trolls) have caused him to perhaps be overly guarded re HP's.

And nope, I didn't get my facts from a warped author.

= I can assure you my friend that many of the things you stated are straight from the propaganda booklets of the RSS and their occasional Kesdhari facilitators. That does not make you a bad person for believing what you may have innocently read but let me respectfully but humbly assure you that certain beliefs you hold about Sikhi and its origins or so-called oaths are in fact incorrect.

I remember my grandfather talking about how Punjabis are born-warriors who rejected being oppressed and took the sword to annihilate the bad guys.

= I myself do not believe that Punjabi's are superior to any other group of people on the planet. When it comes to indices of drugs or alcohol consumption or female infanticide or caste discrimination, we are in the main not worthy of any association with brave Gursikhs who did indeed reject oppression and who did fight for human rights of the weak in spite of repeated Genocides of the Sikh Panth in which the majority of the Sikhs of the time lost their lives as martyrs. I myself am not descended from such Sikhs that fought the Mughals or even alongside Sarkar-e-Khalsa as I personally am descended from humble Hindu and Muslim great grandparents who turned to Sikhi as recently as the early 20th century thanks to the selfless educational "parchar" program brilliantly led by Giani Ditt Singh Ji's (Lahore) Singh Sabha.

He himself came to the UK half a century ago, travelled around England and met a Sikh man who gave him a book about the origins of Sikhism.

= One book should be not taken as gospel my friend (though of course much in the Bible is itself false!)

What that book said about why Hindus converted to Sikhism changed his point of view of Sikhs. This information about why Hindus converted isn't in Sikh history any more... why? That's where a part of my information derives from.

= There is no magical hidden secret about why Hindu's and Muslims became Sikhs. They did so solely because of their emphatic conviction in the Truth of Sikhi (via what you may term central "oaths" of Kirat Karo Naam Jappo Vand Chhako and Sarbat Da Bhala). Hindu's and Muslims became Sikh because Sikhi is the Truth and emphasises universal equality and human rights and rejects: pilgrimages, fasts, slavery, caste discrimination, avtarhood (ie Ram Chandar the King is not considered the same as Ram - one word of many for the formless Ik Onkar in Sikhi), the virgin birth of Jesus (as believed in Islam) etc, etc.

And bhai, I already know why Sikhism was created mainly. To protect Hindus from the invaders.

= This is wholly incorrect information brother. If we see that 12% of the global population is comprised of so-called Hindu's, then it is important to understand that Sikhi is also there for the protection of innocents from the 88% majority of the global population that are not in any way Hindu. Sikhi's driving motto is Sarbat Da Bhala (ensuring the welfare of ALL humanity). That is the central commitment or oath of Sikhi at its most basic. Amritdhari Sikhs are meant to protect all innocent humans regardless of their faith. As examples, Khalsa Sikhs should be there to protect: innocent churchgoing Africans from the threat of Ebola, innocent malnourished Hindu orphans in Tamil Nadu and West Bengal, innocent Yazidi girls enslaved and raped by Muslim warriors in Kurdistan, innocent Pakistani children at school in Peshawar who were cruelly killed by the Islamic Sharia Taliban fanatics, as well innocent Tibetan Buddhists brutalised by the evil Chinese regime. That is why it is so important that more and more decent people currently described by the RSS as so-called Hindu's join the Sikh Panth so that there is a new enlarged and re-instituted Khalsa Fauj to protect the innocent in cases such as the above (and others such as the Rwandan Genocide) under the auspices of the UN.

be real Bebe Nanaki was Guru ji's follower from his childhood whereas Bhai Mardana was only after Guru ji reached maturity.

Bhenji please remember that Bhai Mardana Ji was Guru Sahib's foremost childhood friend from the same village so I passionately believe from extensively reading Sikh history that Bhai Mardana Ji was clearly the first Sikh in history. Of course, I wholly respect your right to believe otherwise and in truth this is no argument as both Bhai Mardana Ji and Bebe Nanaki Ji were equally both amongst the highest of the high elevated souls within the Sikh Panth.

[Kuttabanda]

Kacherra Te Kirpan vi Paadiye? Sikh sarroop di Changi Ishtihaarbazi karo.

[Guest Sanatani]

You're right.

It's extremely sickening that a minorty of HPs may celebrate 1984.

If they do, as a representative of my ancestral community I am deeply sorry if they do that.

My family found out about what happened in 1984 recently, say, a few years ago, as they were not living in India at the time that it happened.

Recently in India a change has been taking place.

More Hindus are calling themselves Sanatani and are calling their religion Sanatana Dharma.

What's more, they're going back to their old roots and are uniting.

Instead of worshipping Sai Baba, more are now against him as he was not actually a Hindu but his loyalty was mostly with another religion, plus he was only a man.

The caste system discrimination is slowly dying.

My parents are from two different castes.

More and more Sanatanis are setting up groups to promote caste equality. But we're still far from unity.

I can tell you that most of the Sanatanis (Hindus) on the Internet are not trying to change Sikh history or distort it with the purpose of absorption, as a Sanatani I believe that they genuinely think that Sikhism is a part of Sanatana Dharma and are connecting the dots with Sanatana Dharma whenever there is one.

Similarly with Buddha, my father once told us that Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu or something, we even used to have a Buddha idol in our house. I think I remember visiting a Buddhist temple once or twice.

This of course is not a part of Buddhism, Buddha was not an avatar.

I think that Sanatanis genuinely believe that Buddha is an incarnation of Vishnu and are not trying to absorb Buddhism into Sanatana Dharma.

I don't believe Buddha is, and the same thing applies with Sikhi.

With the RSS, what they're doing is wrong by painting only Bandaji as a Hindu, they also celebrate the birth of the Gurujis and in their parades they glorify Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji.

It seems like an oxymoron but with sentences, it's weird.

If you read into Sanatani mythology, it was said that at the end of the Kali Yuga, Vishnu would incarnate into the Kalki avatar to end oppression and injustice. This is also said in the Dasam Granth or something.

A small, small minority of Sanatanis may genuinely believe that Guruji was the Kalki avatar and that he ended oppression and injustice.

So like I said, it's not a case of them purposely distorting Sikh history by labelling the Gurus as avatars for the purpose of absorbing Sikhi into Sanatana Dharma, they literally and genuinely believe that.

Off course the belief that the Gurus were avatars and that the 10th Guruji was Kalki is totally wrong because it seems like we're still stuck in Kali Yuga, while our mythology states that after Kalki ends oppression the world will become the Satya Yuga again, which has not happened, therefore the 10th pita can not be regarded as Kalki in any way.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

You're right.

It's extremely sickening that a minorty of HPs may celebrate 1984.

If they do, as a representative of my ancestral community I am deeply sorry if they do that.

My family found out about what happened in 1984 recently, say, a few years ago, as they were not living in India at the time that it happened.

Recently in India a change has been taking place.

More Hindus are calling themselves Sanatani and are calling their religion Sanatana Dharma.

What's more, they're going back to their old roots and are uniting.

Instead of worshipping Sai Baba, more are now against him as he was not actually a Hindu but his loyalty was mostly with another religion, plus he was only a man.

The caste system discrimination is slowly dying.

My parents are from two different castes.

More and more Sanatanis are setting up groups to promote caste equality. But we're still far from unity.

I can tell you that most of the Sanatanis (Hindus) on the Internet are not trying to change Sikh history or distort it with the purpose of absorption, as a Sanatani I believe that they genuinely think that Sikhism is a part of Sanatana Dharma and are connecting the dots with Sanatana Dharma whenever there is one.

Similarly with Buddha, my father once told us that Buddha was an incarnation of Vishnu or something, we even used to have a Buddha idol in our house. I think I remember visiting a Buddhist temple once or twice.

This of course is not a part of Buddhism, Buddha was not an avatar.

I think that Sanatanis genuinely believe that Buddha is an incarnation of Vishnu and are not trying to absorb Buddhism into Sanatana Dharma.

I don't believe Buddha is, and the same thing applies with Sikhi.

With the RSS, what they're doing is wrong by painting only Bandaji as a Hindu, they also celebrate the birth of the Gurujis and in their parades they glorify Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji.

It seems like an oxymoron but with sentences, it's weird.

If you read into Sanatani mythology, it was said that at the end of the Kali Yuga, Vishnu would incarnate into the Kalki avatar to end oppression and injustice. This is also said in the Dasam Granth or something.

A small, small minority of Sanatanis may genuinely believe that Guruji was the Kalki avatar and that he ended oppression and injustice.

So like I said, it's not a case of them purposely distorting Sikh history by labelling the Gurus as avatars for the purpose of absorbing Sikhi into Sanatana Dharma, they literally and genuinely believe that.

Off course the belief that the Gurus were avatars and that the 10th Guruji was Kalki is totally wrong because it seems like we're still stuck in Kali Yuga, while our mythology states that after Kalki ends oppression the world will become the Satya Yuga again, which has not happened, therefore the 10th pita can not be regarded as Kalki in any way.

Guru Sahib is actually greater than Kalki. Also the followers of Nanak through Gurbani and Simran aren't slaves to Kalyug, in fact the GurSikhs are going to be the ones to create Satyug in the world.

[88singh]

Guru Sahib is actually greater than Kalki. Also the followers of Nanak through Gurbani and Simran aren't slaves to Kalyug, in fact the GurSikhs are going to be the ones to create Satyug in the world.

And when will the stupid santanies hindu buggers will get it. So proud to be a sikh from punjab. I rate your comment with five stars. Well done.

[Guest Sanatani]

What's your problem, 88singh?

Jacfsing2, I don't think GurSikhs alone can do it.

The Dasam Granth states that God will incarnate at the end of the Kali Yuga to Kalki to start the Satya Yuga or something. Of course prayers will help with it though.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

What's your problem, 88singh?

Jacfsing2, I don't think GurSikhs alone can do it.

The Dasam Granth states that God will incarnate at the end of the Kali Yuga to Kalki to start the Satya Yuga or something. Of course prayers will help with it though.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kalki_Avtaar "Thus, we see that 'Sri Dasam Granth' does not say that 'Kalki Avtaar' will come into this world. The story of 'Kalki' has been given as a translation (though with some changes), as stories of other avatars (incarnations) are given. This is 'Chaubees Avtaar' (24 incarnations), so it is natural that the story of 'last and 24th incarnation has been written in Sri Dasam Granth.

So, dear Khalsa ji, no Kalki Avtaar will come into this world to save humanity. There is no need of Kalki Avtaar either. Khalsa is already there to do what is needed; only thing required is to wake the Khalsa up."

[Quantavius]

And bhai, I already know why Sikhism was created mainly. To protect Hindus from the invaders. If you reply to this post then I'll explain how I know.

No need to to. We've heard it a million times. You're behaving like you have something special and new to present when it's the same old tired nonsense.

Please don't take offense but let me ask you something. Why can't you Hindus protect yourselves? Why do you need someone else to protect you? By claiming that another religion was created just to protect you, you're coming off as some sort of lowly coward. Such claims are very shameful. No offense, but seriously, don't you feel ashamed for making such ludicrous claims? A tiny 2% was created to protect the 98%? You have such huge numbers yet you need 'protection'?

You will never hear a Sikh making such preposterous claims. In fact you won't even hear followers of other religions making such claims, only Hindus. That's because they have something called 'guts' and are too dignified to say something so shameful in public.

No offense but it appears that many Hindus like yourself are suffering from low self esteem. Why is this so?

[Guest Sanatani]

Jacfsing2 that I agree with, I see it now and it does make sense.

Quantavius, I wouldn't have believed that Sikhism was established by the last Guruji only to protect the country and the Sanatani people were it not for two Sikhs who claimed this, one from India and one from outside, as well as another reason, so no, low self esteem is not an issue.

In fact, were it not for the Marathas the Khalsa wouldn't have revived from their sleep after years of domination, which happened when the Pathans and Durrani carried out the Holocausts.

At the same time, were it not for the Khalsa, the Marathas wouldn't have been able to keep their grip in the lands they reconquered because the Sikh empire purposely captured the Khyber Pass to block the Mughal's buddies, who were attempting to cross through the Pass at the request of the Mughal's begging for reinforcements to stop Sanatani revival.

I find it funny how you try to establish yourself as being superior to Hindus lol, can you remind me why you don't shave?

If I didn't know the reason why Singhs don't shave and the oath that goes with it, I wouldn't have believed the claims that Sikhism was intended to protect Hindus, what have you got to say for that huh?

Don't tell me some bs like "Kesh is a gift from God", you can keep on denying why your religion was formed but history can't be erased no matter how hard you try.

[Guest Sanatani]

Also, if you have 'guts', why don't you tell our fellow sulle bhais the real reason why you don't shave?

If you have 'guts', I dare you to tell the world the real reason why you keep an oath to never shave until a certain deed is carried out.

I dare you to tell people this certain deed if you have 'guts'.

I wouldn't blindly claim such a preposterous belief that Sikhism was created to protect the Hindus if I didn't have any reason to back it up.

But if I publicly posted the reason I would be a snake, so nah I won't.