Hindus Wearing The Kara

[Sanatani]

StarStriker Paji

Let me and you hate the people who hate Sikhs (rather than the ones who are with us and attend Gurdwara regularly).

I honestly believe that we need to get east Punjab back to 99% being Sikhs in the sense of Gudrwara attendees.

If we accept people like Sanatani as Sikhs then we can turn back the hatred against us from Urdu & Hindi speakers.

My experience at Gurdwara shows that there is a significant majority of so-called HP's who are actually Sikhs but a vocal minority of Hindu-Hindi-Hindustan types who are the 1% that we don't need any association with. But I'm convinced that the majority of HP's are not against us.

Bhai Mati Das, Bhai Sati Das, Banda Singh Bahadur, our Panj Pyare should be enough to convince most HP's that Sikhi is the truth and they can be part of the Sikh Panth as sehajdhari Sikhs right here, right now today rather than so-called Hindu's as the RSS term them (for the political objective of making Sikhs as small a minority as possible).

I respect you for this, I really do. But even non-Punjabis visit the gurdwara. My mum's side of the family are Bengali while my dad's is Punjabi, yet my mum's sisters and their sons attend the gurdwara and wear the Kara.

I even know family friends from UP, Bihar and even Jharkhand that attend the gurdwaras.

And RSS aren't trying to make Sikhs as small a minority as possible. They consider Hindus and Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists the same, as in blood. They believe that the true inhabitants of India are the Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists etc... Yes, some idiots believe that Sikhs are Hindus. But they're not trying to harm Sikhism by saying that.

If they really did hate Sikhism and wanted to reduce their population, then they wouldn't have re-converted these 8,000 children/people who were lured by missionaries out of Sikhism, back to Sikhism.

In 1984, RSS was defending Sikhs and even in the riots in Saharanpur an RSS member was shot for backing up the Sikhs, from what I've heard.

[Sanatani]

Respect and good on you Sanatani Singh for wearing a Kara given to you by your Gurdwara long ago.

You and your family bow in humility in front of the Truth of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and what that actually means is that you and your family are Sikhs (albeit sehahdhari but nevertheless you and your family are Sikhs). The Arabic word "Hindu" which simply means a black-skinned thief in their derogatory terminology is NOT what you are. The word Sikh refers to a student (from a indigenous Sanskrit root) who bows in front of the Truth of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. It does not automatically translate you or your family are Amritdhari Sikhs (as our original Panj Pyare were with origins from as wide afield as Gujarat, Orissa, south India, Hastinapur and modern day Pakistan) but nevertheless you are fully entitled to be considered sehajdhari Sikhs regardless of if your surname might be Kumar, Sharma, Kapoor etc. Hopefully, one day you might feel you can change your surname to Singh too in order to eradicate the cancerous caste apartheid that befalls many people of our background whether Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or Christian. Only Sikhi is unequivocal in its condemnation of caste as we see, for example, in 1699.

All the best.

You're correct brother that Amritdhari Gursikhs simply cannot have allegiances to other false precepts aligned with another faith such as believing in caste, drinking wine, worshipping stone idols or fasting or pilgrimages etc but this brother Sanatani and his family are very much sehajdhari Sikhs as regular Gurdwara attendees and the more brothers and families like him from what are regarded as a Hindu background the better. This is the only way to get more quality Amritdhari's in the future as a static population pool can stagnate as we have seen in Punjab in recent years.

JKV Bhenji, with respect, this Sikh brother (Sanatani) did not mention or claim to be an Amritdhari Khalsa Gursikh. He has merely stated that they are regular attendees of hus Gurdwara and that he wears the Kara given to him by his Gurdwara loyally. I salute him and his family as (sehjdhari) Sikhs. You're absolutely right to point out that Sikhi has no tolerance of the immoral caste system and zero faith in stone idol worship and I doubt whether our friend Sanatani even believes in those two instrically Hindu beliefs - which would again substantiate that they are natural born Sikhs (just like the majority of the Indian population would be were they to actively come into contact with the Truth of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and be welcomed by existing members of the Sikh Panth). The only reason the vast majority of so-called HP's think of themselves as Hindu is mostly because of RSS and Arya Samaj propaganda that anybody that attends Gurdwara without having kes and without the name Singh or Kaur is automatically Hindu. The anti-Sikh strategy behind such thinking was to reduce the Sikh percentage in east Punjab downwards from the arguably 99% it was in 1947 to the 60% it currently it is and by excluding non-Amritdhari's they wish to shows that Sikhs are but a mere 3% of the east Punjab population (which is simply not so). The smaller the population of the Panth, the more our enemies rejoice and benefit. If we are serious about Khalsa Raj globally we need to start accepting more sehajdhari Sikhs of various backgrounds into Panth. Thus, should one's supposedly non-Sikh in-laws do matha tek at a Gurdwara ... that is their entry point into the Sikh Panth right there. I hope you can see why that makes sense on how we can try push the agenda of Sarbat Da Bhalla further globally.

You're right. I refuse to call myself a Hindu. I would call myself a Sikh if I could, but recently I came upon a new term "Sanatani", which is a native word instead of the foreign word.

But really, what can we do? No effort has been taken to remove the word Hindu and replace it with a more native term.

And again, you're right. I don't follow the caste system, neither does my brother. We just want unity.

And again, you're right. Yes, I don't pray or worship stones or idols. Neither do any other Hindus. Other Hindus don't worship the idol, they only do what they do because they don't know how God looks like and they need a clearer image. I haven't done that thing for a long time now.

[StarStriker]

So much rubbish written in ur post, pretty much proves everyfink bowt HP's. Calling me stupid? Y? Coz im telling it how it is?

Sikhs have peddled with our own history? Really go on then u mug show me!

U tellin me rss and arya samaj n indian backed govt aint changed history books of sikhs to fool post 80s born kids back home? Who wrote books of how banda singh bahadur never took amrit from guru gobind singh, and infact remained a hindu? Who photoshops pics of sikh gurus bowin down to hindu deities and guru nanak havin 8 arms/legs? Who recreated history by saying it was ONLY sikhs who didnt support the crappy 1857 mutiny, despite panjabi muslims/pathans/gurkhas n maharaja of kashmir not supportin it either, but sikhs always bein singled out? Who has re-written history by sayin how hari singh nalwa was infact a hindu his entire life, and had his ashes scattered in a hindu ceremony at ganges? Who deliberately refused to print stories of heroic acts of the sikhs during the british raj in the panjab newspaper circles in the 30s? Have a guess it wasnt the sikhs in any of these times.

In wat way did the sikhs backstab hindus in the 80's? if u r referring to those hindus who were killed by "militants", well they were actually killed by panjab police black cats (kalay kacchay), dressed up as sikhs, which they have admitted to in their own biographies. Btw i never accused u of any of the above of wat i had written in my post regarding HP's, PLEASE NOTE i said, panjabi hindus, i never mentioned hindus in general. S.indian, gujarati, bangali etc hindus r always respectful of sikhs, but any hindu who has rubbish 2 write bowt sikhs, is always a hindu panjabi/n.indian hindu at the least.

Also y r u apologising for 84 to sikhs? We've never blamed hindus for 84, that was clearly a sikh vs indian govt war.

Oh btw, u went to the website 'topix' to increase ur knowledge on sikh dharam? dear o dear.

Well done on shooing u frm sikhi?.........oh please, u want me to get the violins out? I tell it how it is, regarding a lot of hindu panjabis n u somehow get put off by a dharam? If ur that thin skinned, im amazed u even leave ur home.

Am i willing accept that my ancestors were hindus? Well duh, obviously they were, but my immediate ancestors frm 100yrs back were muslims. Also u insinuating that all sikh ancestors became sikhs just to get revenge vs muslims? Facepalm! Before the 6th guru, hargobind created the akaal sena, sikhs converted frm islam/hindu coz of the dharam itself, with no signs of forming an army. So no wat ur sayin is rubbish.

Regarding khatris n rajputs joinin sikhi, u pathetically state it was coz they wanted revenge vs muslims, well wat about those hindu hill rajas (rajputs)? Most of guru gobind singhs battles were against them, n not vs mughals incidently, whom teamed together against the khalsa at chamkaur. Our population was low....? Tell me a time it wasnt low? Majority of Guru hargobinds akaal sena was non-khatri/rajput. Also not all khatris and rajputs r hindu, many live in pakistan as rajas (rajputs)/sheikhs (khatris).

Leave it out son.

[DTF]

But even non-Punjabis visit the gurdwara.

= Absolutely brother, tens of millions of non-Punjabi's attend Gurdwara's up and down India and internationally every day. The Langar provided at Gurdwara's is not restricted to Sikhs and is the biggest charitable contribution against hunger in India. It's a disgrace if sehajdhari Gurdwara Sangat are thought of as anything other than the Sikhs they are. By the way four of first five Amritdhari Khalsa Sikhs were non-Punjabi. If you have the time I can give you countless examples of non-Punjabi Sikhs. The narrative that only Punjabi's are Sikhs is a lie by opponents of Sikhi (when the statistics are that 87% of ethnic Punjabi's are non-Sikhs). Rabindranath Tagore was also a sehajdhari Sikh by the way.

My mum's side of the family are Bengali while my dad's is Punjabi, yet my mum's sisters and their sons attend the gurdwara and wear the Kara.

= That's good to know brother. The more Bengali Sikhs there are the better. Sikhi brings Unity, Hindutva is the policy of divide and rule. I know there are ethnic Bengali Sikhs in pockets of Bengal as well as historic Gurdwara's (indeed directly linked to Guru Sahib) in West Bengal and Bangladesh (as well as Nepal and Sri Lanka) so all ethnicities of Sikh exist (albeit that Punjabi Sikhs are currently a majority).

I even know family friends from UP, Bihar and even Jharkhand that attend the gurdwaras.

= As a student of this brother, I am aware that 50 million Sikhs from those three states have been de-classified from erstwhile Sikhs into Hindu's since 1947.

= (Mayawati's) Jatav community, the Kabirpanthi's and indeed (ironically) the Sanatani Sikhs and others were all part of the Sikh Panth prior to Nehru's wretched 1951 census policy in puratan terms.

And RSS aren't trying to make Sikhs as small a minority as possible. They consider Hindus and Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists the same, as in blood. They believe that the true inhabitants of India are the Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists etc... Yes, some idiots believe that Sikhs are Hindus. But they're not trying to harm Sikhism by saying that.

= I strongly believe that the Hindutva elites are indeed trying to marginalise Sikhs into as small a minority as possible and that is why they define the tens of millions of Sikhs like yourself as so-called Hindu's. What's worse is that many Sikhs think it's somehow clever to exclude certain Sikhs (defined as Hindu by RSS) from inclusion within the wider Sikh Panth. No other religion states that tens of millions of its followers are not part of the faith!

If they really did hate Sikhism and wanted to reduce their population, then they wouldn't have re-converted these 8,000 children/people who were lured by missionaries out of Sikhism, back to Sikhism.

= I don't believe all stories I read in the Indian press brother!

In 1984, RSS was defending Sikhs and even in the riots in Saharanpur an RSS member was shot for backing up the Sikhs, from what I've heard.

= I don't claim that all RSS are bad but don't let individuals cloud the truth that the Hindutva elite want to define people like yourself as non-Sikhs. My understanding is that Sanjeev Kochar was a Sikh member of the RSS in Saharanpur. Only the most rabid of anti-Sikh Punjabi Khatri's do not attend Gurdwara's (contrary to the RSS claim that 90% of non-Muslim Khatri's are Hindu's).

= And it's not just yourself brother, the 50 million Jatavs, Kabirpanthi's, Sanatani Sikhs and others who all revered Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj being defined as non-Sikhs and culturally made to think of themselves as Hindu in the years since 1951 disgusts me. Because the Hindutva elite realises that if a castless, united Sikh Panth with numbers close to 100million were to emerge in India (of which Punjabi's would be in a minority) all of their corrupt activities would begin to suffer due to power of a united fist able to deliver and enforce justice and seva for all. Make no mistake about it, all the poor and the suffering and malnourished in India today are natural born Sikhs regardless of if they attend the Gurdwara or not. In the eyes of Guru Sahib and Gareeb Nawaz they are Sikhs. Sikhi is the only Truth that can eliver global justice as Hindutva seeks to perpetuate injustice and discrimination.

[DTF]

I remember one Punjabi Hindu saying that back in 1947 his grandfather and many other Hindus alongside Sikhs fought against the 'bad guys'. He then said how Sikh extremists forced his family to leave Punjab and his grandfather was shot to death, the very same one who fought with the Sikhs against the 'bad guys' back in 1947.

DTF = The extremists that did this were Government Black Cats operating on behalf of Indira Gandhi and her successors (with Muhammad Izhar Alam) the commander of these Black Cat (false flag) operations.

Khatris and Rajputs ARE Hindus. It wasn't every first-born Hindu, I know, but back then the Sikh population was extremely low, it's only because of Hindu families (yes, Khatris/Rajputs) who made their first-born Sikhs and because of the "Hindu-need for revenge against the invaders" that Sikhs got a bigger population.

DTF = Please be aware that Khatri's and Rajput's did not ever comprise the bulk of Sikh fighting forces. The majority of Punjabi Khatri's and Punjabi Rajputs and indeed Punjabi Brahmins are in fact Muslim, contrary to what many believe. But it is true that nowadays Khatri's, Brahmins and Rajput are the bulk of so-called HP forward castes.

Let me ask you this: are you willing to accept that your ancestors were Hindus who wanted revenge, and that's the reason they converted?

DTF = Not at all. People believe in Sikhi for its vision of wanting equality and justice for all and upliftment of the downtrodden masses (rather than for reasons of revenge). Revenge could have been sought as Hindu's. People came to Sikhi because it is the Truth.

why are you so full of hatred towards your own Hindu brothers?

DTF = The reason he may dislike some HP's is that there is a small vocal minority of Hindu Punjabi's who utterly detest and despise Sikhs.

At home lots of you Sikhs are taught hatred against Hindus as well. What was it? "Hindus are slaves"? "Hindus are weak and they needed someone to save them"? "Sikhs rescued Hindu women from sucking the lullas of the invaders"?

= Sikhi does not teach this. Sikhi and Gurmat shows us the example of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's shaheedi. By the way Gurdwara Sis Ganj Sahib exists because of a Bihari Sikh that Hindu and Muslim writers despised for being of the sweeper community whereas in contrast Guru Gobind Singh Ji stated to Bhai Jaita Ji that "Rangrete (Sweepers/Scavenger communities are ...) Guru ke Bete"

Every time I replied to a Sikh PEACEFULLY, every time I apologised for 1984, every time I was on the side of Sikhs over my own Hindus and over the 'malechas', what I got back was abuse from my own Sikh brothers. I defended their religion, and in return they attacked mine. Even then I didn't abuse Sikhism back when they were abusing Hindus, Hindu women and Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma).

= There are many Pakistani's who masquareade as Sikhs online in order to sow hatred between different non-Muslim communities.

= Forget the online hype on forums and see if your heart agrees with the message of Sikhi - that all are equal and deserve justice and equal opportunity.

= Focus on kirat karo, naam jappo, vand cchako ... forget flame wars ... as they are irrelavant to what Sikhi stands for!

[jkvlondon]

I respect you for this, I really do. But even non-Punjabis visit the gurdwara. My mum's side of the family are Bengali while my dad's is Punjabi, yet my mum's sisters and their sons attend the gurdwara and wear the Kara.

I even know family friends from UP, Bihar and even Jharkhand that attend the gurdwaras.

And RSS aren't trying to make Sikhs as small a minority as possible. They consider Hindus and Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists the same, as in blood. They believe that the true inhabitants of India are the Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists etc... Yes, some idiots believe that Sikhs are Hindus. But they're not trying to harm Sikhism by saying that.

If they really did hate Sikhism and wanted to reduce their population, then they wouldn't have re-converted these 8,000 children/people who were lured by missionaries out of Sikhism, back to Sikhism.

In 1984, RSS was defending Sikhs and even in the riots in Saharanpur an RSS member was shot for backing up the Sikhs, from what I've heard.

This 'reconversion' was done how , by what method? There is a lot of talk in the media but no photos no interviews of people changing faith so I cannot really believe that this is a real positive thing . Sikhi is not a conversion based faith , if you come and learn and accept Guru ji fully and decide to leave other methods and paths then you can follow through and take amrit and get naam and become full Sikhs i.e. Khalsa. You know in Hinduism you have to give bheta gain acceptance by the Guru and get given the mantar, the same mechanism in SIkhi but you seem to want to stop short of the comittment because of comments of others ? strange .

RSS are blackening the name of SIkhi by associating it with forcible or rishwat based conversions...SIkhi is the path of prema bhagti if you don't love Waheguru there is no point ...I would rather people become SIkhs because of a true calling rather than a maya based push, RSS is trying to change that association and undermine a Khalsa'a image by their actions my Guru is the maker of SIkhs not these men of dubious intentions.

SHaranpur really ? that's amazing because in all the coverage we read and saw nothing like this came up....

Sikhi transcends caste , culture, geographic location, race everything because it is the truth , the true mirror of Akal Purakh please try to understand that and go into it deeper because you are only just getting a glimpse so far ... many people claim to be a sikh but don't know what it truly entails when they do realise they cannot help but fall truly in love

[Sanatani]

This 'reconversion' was done how , by what method? There is a lot of talk in the media but no photos no interviews of people changing faith so I cannot really believe that this is a real positive thing . Sikhi is not a conversion based faith , if you come and learn and accept Guru ji fully and decide to leave other methods and paths then you can follow through and take amrit and get naam and become full Sikhs i.e. Khalsa. You know in Hinduism you have to give bheta gain acceptance by the Guru and get given the mantar, the same mechanism in SIkhi but you seem to want to stop short of the comittment because of comments of others ? strange .

RSS are blackening the name of SIkhi by associating it with forcible or rishwat based conversions...SIkhi is the path of prema bhagti if you don't love Waheguru there is no point ...I would rather people become SIkhs because of a true calling rather than a maya based push, RSS is trying to change that association and undermine a Khalsa'a image by their actions my Guru is the maker of SIkhs not these men of dubious intentions.

SHaranpur really ? that's amazing because in all the coverage we read and saw nothing like this came up....

Sikhi transcends caste , culture, geographic location, race everything because it is the truth , the true mirror of Akal Purakh please try to understand that and go into it deeper because you are only just getting a glimpse so far ... many people claim to be a sikh but don't know what it truly entails when they do realise they cannot help but fall truly in love

Actually, those Sikhs who were re-converted were born SIKHS, so I believe it was righteous to re-convert them.

It was in no way a forced conversion, they openly claimed that they wanted to re-convert.

If Sikhs had no part in it, then what's the problem?

I read in several places that he was a RSS member.

And you know, it's not good to use the same username in multiple sites, people can easily recognise who you are.

[Sanatani]

So much rubbish written in ur post, pretty much proves everyfink bowt HP's. Calling me stupid? Y? Coz im telling it how it is?

Sikhs have peddled with our own history? Really go on then u mug show me!

U tellin me rss and arya samaj n indian backed govt aint changed history books of sikhs to fool post 80s born kids back home? Who wrote books of how banda singh bahadur never took amrit from guru gobind singh, and infact remained a hindu? Who photoshops pics of sikh gurus bowin down to hindu deities and guru nanak havin 8 arms/legs? Who recreated history by saying it was ONLY sikhs who didnt support the crappy 1857 mutiny, despite panjabi muslims/pathans/gurkhas n maharaja of kashmir not supportin it either, but sikhs always bein singled out? Who has re-written history by sayin how hari singh nalwa was infact a hindu his entire life, and had his ashes scattered in a hindu ceremony at ganges? Who deliberately refused to print stories of heroic acts of the sikhs during the british raj in the panjab newspaper circles in the 30s? Have a guess it wasnt the sikhs in any of these times.

In wat way did the sikhs backstab hindus in the 80's? if u r referring to those hindus who were killed by "militants", well they were actually killed by panjab police black cats (kalay kacchay), dressed up as sikhs, which they have admitted to in their own biographies. Btw i never accused u of any of the above of wat i had written in my post regarding HP's, PLEASE NOTE i said, panjabi hindus, i never mentioned hindus in general. S.indian, gujarati, bangali etc hindus r always respectful of sikhs, but any hindu who has rubbish 2 write bowt sikhs, is always a hindu panjabi/n.indian hindu at the least.

Also y r u apologising for 84 to sikhs? We've never blamed hindus for 84, that was clearly a sikh vs indian govt war.

Oh btw, u went to the website 'topix' to increase ur knowledge on sikh dharam? dear o dear.

Well done on shooing u frm sikhi?.........oh please, u want me to get the violins out? I tell it how it is, regarding a lot of hindu panjabis n u somehow get put off by a dharam? If ur that thin skinned, im amazed u even leave ur home.

Am i willing accept that my ancestors were hindus? Well duh, obviously they were, but my immediate ancestors frm 100yrs back were muslims. Also u insinuating that all sikh ancestors became sikhs just to get revenge vs muslims? Facepalm! Before the 6th guru, hargobind created the akaal sena, sikhs converted frm islam/hindu coz of the dharam itself, with no signs of forming an army. So no wat ur sayin is rubbish.

Regarding khatris n rajputs joinin sikhi, u pathetically state it was coz they wanted revenge vs muslims, well wat about those hindu hill rajas (rajputs)? Most of guru gobind singhs battles were against them, n not vs mughals incidently, whom teamed together against the khalsa at chamkaur. Our population was low....? Tell me a time it wasnt low? Majority of Guru hargobinds akaal sena was non-khatri/rajput. Also not all khatris and rajputs r hindu, many live in pakistan as rajas (rajputs)/sheikhs (khatris).

Leave it out son.

By 'peddled' with your own history I'm talking about Kesh.

My entire family knows why Sikhs keep their hair uncut, yet I wonder why all traces of this information has been wiped out of the history books.

"Who wrote books of how banda singh bahadur never took amrit from guru gobind singh, and infact remained a hindu? Who photoshops pics of sikh gurus bowin down to hindu deities and guru nanak havin 8 arms/legs? Who recreated history by saying it was ONLY sikhs who didnt support the crappy 1857 mutiny, despite panjabi muslims/pathans/gurkhas n maharaja of kashmir not supportin it either, but sikhs always bein singled out? Who has re-written history by sayin how hari singh nalwa was infact a hindu his entire life, and had his ashes scattered in a hindu ceremony at ganges?!"

They were saying, not changing. That's their belief, but as long as they don't forcibly re-write history, they haven't harmed Sikhism in any way. We all know that these figures were Sikhs.

Recreated history? Did we ever once edit history and recreate history? No. It's only a minority who are "saying" this, but not "changing". I don't know why you guys think that it's all of us.

Am i willing accept that my ancestors were hindus? Well duh, obviously they were, but my immediate ancestors frm 100yrs back were muslims. Also u insinuating that all sikh ancestors became sikhs just to get revenge vs muslims? Facepalm! Before the 6th guru, hargobind created the akaal sena, sikhs converted frm islam/hindu coz of the dharam itself, with no signs of forming an army. So no wat ur sayin is rubbish.

Regarding khatris n rajputs joinin sikhi, u pathetically state it was coz they wanted revenge vs muslims, well wat about those hindu hill rajas (rajputs)? Most of guru gobind singhs battles were against them, n not vs mughals incidently, whom teamed together against the khalsa at chamkaur. Our population was low....? Tell me a time it wasnt low? Majority of Guru hargobinds akaal sena was non-khatri/rajput. Also not all khatris and rajputs r hindu, many live in pakistan as rajas (rajputs)/sheikhs (khatris).

I was mainly talking about Khalsa Sikhs, the Hindus who converted during Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji's time. Before then, there was no such thing as Sikhism, from what I heard from a Sikh. Sikhism back then was just a "reformed movement of Hindus", which is what the Sikh wrote. It was only when Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji created the Khalsa that Sikhism came into existence. Before blaming me and accusing me of being an RSS agent here, this is what a Sikh wrote online and I'm just repeating it.

During Guru Nanak Dev ji's time there was no Sikhism either. His followers may have called themselves "Sikhs", as in "disciples", but they were Hindus and Muslims.

Proof: after Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji died, his Hindu & Muslim followers were arguing whether to cremate him or bury him. So, no, there was no Sikhism before the last living Guruji's time, it was only a reformed movement.

How did this conversation start from a Kara to history?

"well wat about those hindu hill rajas (rajputs)? Most of guru gobind singhs battles were against them, n not vs mughals incidently, whom teamed together against the khalsa at chamkaur."

The Hill Rajas were also traitors to Hindus; lots of Rajputs betrayed their own fellow Hindus and fought against both Hindus & Sikhs. So by claiming that Sri Guru Gobind Singh's majority battles were against them, you're ignoring that they were allies to the Mughals.

If Hindus were your main enemy back then, may I ask you why, instead of Hindus, did your ancestors vow against the Mughals instead?

Wait, one question before I end this post, what clan are you from? Jatt?

[Sanatani]

Khatris and Rajputs ARE Hindus. It wasn't every first-born Hindu, I know, but back then the Sikh population was extremely low, it's only because of Hindu families (yes, Khatris/Rajputs) who made their first-born Sikhs and because of the "Hindu-need for revenge against the invaders" that Sikhs got a bigger population.

DTF = Please be aware that Khatri's and Rajput's did not ever comprise the bulk of Sikh fighting forces. The majority of Punjabi Khatri's and Punjabi Rajputs and indeed Punjabi Brahmins are in fact Muslim, contrary to what many believe. But it is true that nowadays Khatri's, Brahmins and Rajput are the bulk of so-called HP forward castes.

Yes, I know that, but I was replying to the other guy's comment.

Let me ask you this: are you willing to accept that your ancestors were Hindus who wanted revenge, and that's the reason they converted?

DTF = Not at all. People believe in Sikhi for its vision of wanting equality and justice for all and upliftment of the downtrodden masses (rather than for reasons of revenge). Revenge could have been sought as Hindu's. People came to Sikhi because it is the Truth.

I mean during the last living Guruji's time. The majority of the converts converted for revenge and to protect their 'country' or 'land', during the ceremony.

why are you so full of hatred towards your own Hindu brothers?

DTF = The reason he may dislike some HP's is that there is a small vocal minority of Hindu Punjabi's who utterly detest and despise Sikhs.

I don't understand why they would hate Sikhs, honestly. I think they're stupid.

Every time I replied to a Sikh PEACEFULLY, every time I apologised for 1984, every time I was on the side of Sikhs over my own Hindus and over the 'malechas', what I got back was abuse from my own Sikh brothers. I defended their religion, and in return they attacked mine. Even then I didn't abuse Sikhism back when they were abusing Hindus, Hindu women and Hinduism (Sanatana Dharma).

= There are many Pakistani's who masquareade as Sikhs online in order to sow hatred between different non-Muslim communities.

= Forget the online hype on forums and see if your heart agrees with the message of Sikhi - that all are equal and deserve justice and equal opportunity.

= Focus on kirat karo, naam jappo, vand cchako ... forget flame wars ... as they are irrelavant to what Sikhi stands for!

True

[Sanatani]

Sanatani, on 30 Dec 2014 - 10:18, said:

My mum's side of the family are Bengali while my dad's is Punjabi, yet my mum's sisters and their sons attend the gurdwara and wear the Kara.

= That's good to know brother. The more Bengali Sikhs there are the better. Sikhi brings Unity, Hindutva is the policy of divide and rule. I know there are ethnic Bengali Sikhs in pockets of Bengal as well as historic Gurdwara's (indeed directly linked to Guru Sahib) in West Bengal and Bangladesh (as well as Nepal and Sri Lanka) so all ethnicities of Sikh exist (albeit that Punjabi Sikhs are currently a majority).

Yup, I've heard of Bengali Sikhs, but my mum's side are pure Hindus.

I even know family friends from UP, Bihar and even Jharkhand that attend the gurdwaras.

And RSS aren't trying to make Sikhs as small a minority as possible. They consider Hindus and Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists the same, as in blood. They believe that the true inhabitants of India are the Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists etc... Yes, some idiots believe that Sikhs are Hindus. But they're not trying to harm Sikhism by saying that.

= I strongly believe that the Hindutva elites are indeed trying to marginalise Sikhs into as small a minority as possible and that is why they define the tens of millions of Sikhs like yourself as so-called Hindu's. What's worse is that many Sikhs think it's somehow clever to exclude certain Sikhs (defined as Hindu by RSS) from inclusion within the wider Sikh Panth. No other religion states that tens of millions of its followers are not part of the faith!

Like I said before, I wasn't born in India. My family haven't been there since British rule. So I doubt that happened to them. Living in UK.

= And it's not just yourself brother, the 50 million Jatavs, Kabirpanthi's, Sanatani Sikhs and others who all revered Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj being defined as non-Sikhs and culturally made to think of themselves as Hindu in the years since 1951 disgusts me. Because the Hindutva elite realises that if a castless, united Sikh Panth with numbers close to 100million were to emerge in India (of which Punjabi's would be in a minority) all of their corrupt activities would begin to suffer due to power of a united fist able to deliver and enforce justice and seva for all. Make no mistake about it, all the poor and the suffering and malnourished in India today are natural born Sikhs regardless of if they attend the Gurdwara or not. In the eyes of Guru Sahib and Gareeb Nawaz they are Sikhs. Sikhi is the only Truth that can eliver global justice as Hindutva seeks to perpetuate injustice and discrimination.

Yeah, I'm shocked at that too. But the reason is that Sikhism denies any relation with Hindus, which is why these groups are considered Hindus. They practice bits of Sikhism mixed with Hinduism, which is against Sikhism from what I've heard.

RSS, VHP and other Hindu groups that seek Hindutva are against casteism, they've recruited Dalits too.