Hypothetical New Sikh Sect That Accepts Homosexuality

[jkvlondon]

I'm not sure why you quoted me but gender issues are bit more complex than that. I dont claim to be an expert but surgery is usually for those who seriously want to feel like a woman/man on the outside as well. Mentally speaking they are still the gender they claim to be in their brains regardless of the surgery.

Kira just following on from you...but given their unique situation they can align the inner and outer aspect easier than a prospective TG and still be a fully functioning male or female i.e. they can have future generations . I think punjabi tradition wise they were not given choices but sent to hijarday ,eunuchs which precluded them from grist jiwan or even bhagti of Akal Purakh in most cases. I remember recently a big kerfuffle because of a film with the same storyline singh has hermaphrodite child and they allow child to be taken by hijirdey under societal pressure.

[jkvlondon]

Akal Takht issues statement about the gay marriage Issue

http://dailysikhupdates.com/akal-takht-issues-statement-on-gay-marriage-in-gurdwaras/

[Kira]

Kira just following on from you...but given their unique situation they can align the inner and outer aspect easier than a prospective TG and still be a fully functioning male or female i.e. they can have future generations . I think punjabi tradition wise they were not given choices but sent to hijarday ,eunuchs which precluded them from grist jiwan or even bhagti of Akal Purakh in most cases. I remember recently a big kerfuffle because of a film with the same storyline singh has hermaphrodite child and they allow child to be taken by hijirdey under societal pressure.

It's not that simple though, We can all say they can try and align their inner and outer thoughts and feelings, but it's alot like being born with a natural trait and trying to hide it (say hair color), you can try and dye your hair but eventually even that fades. I don't see why anyones sexual orientation or even who they associate as with their gender is anything Waheguru would care about. Nothing is outside of his will, we shouldn't change ourselves to appease society. We should change ourselves spiritually to appease waheguru only.

Akal Takht issues statement about the gay marriage Issue

http://dailysikhupdates.com/akal-takht-issues-statement-on-gay-marriage-in-gurdwaras/

I sometimes wonder if people like branding homosexuality as "un-natural" because it's easier to disregard it that way. It's hardly "un-natural" in the sense it's found in many other species of animals too.

[jkvlondon]

It's not that simple though, We can all say they can try and align their inner and outer thoughts and feelings, but it's alot like being born with a natural trait and trying to hide it (say hair color), you can try and dye your hair but eventually even that fades. I don't see why anyones sexual orientation or even who they associate as with their gender is anything Waheguru would care about. Nothing is outside of his will, we shouldn't change ourselves to appease society. We should change ourselves spiritually to appease waheguru only.

I sometimes wonder if people like branding homosexuality as "un-natural" because it's easier to disregard it that way. It's hardly "un-natural" in the sense it's found in many other species of animals too.

but then Kira what happens to your God given intellect it has no role to play , your spirituality in human life is not a factor at all ? The agenda of the majority is to sleep, drink eat be merry and forget about the Creator and the mission of Life. The people who forget that we are meant to make our way home are the ones caught up in dramas of being able to express their kaamna in every which way, of acquiring wealth ,of 'feeding puttay to their haumai' as my Mum says and telling the world that their way is the only meaningful life. I'd rather stay happy in knowing and following those who have achieved what I am aiming for ...so I will take advice only from Guru ji and his approved Gursikhs.

If one wants to use the natural argument then they must also accept hukham that there will be no progeny, the progeny of such unions are always born out of wedlock which is wrong in the eyes of the faiths . Having a child IS NOT a right but a privilege.

[Kira]

but then Kira what happens to your God given intellect it has no role to play , your spirituality in human life is not a factor at all ?

Our intellect plays a part in our moral compass, it helps us decide what is right or wrong. Your Spirituality should come from that, not what you're physically engineered to do. For example you're mind would tell you not to steal, as it is wrong and has negative consequences for both yourself and the person you steal from. I don't understand how you're physical,sexual or even genetics would fall under that. One could steal to fuel lust to hire prostitutes but even then the act is based on stealing and lust, which as we know is wrong.

I suppose it all relates back to free-will, though I have no idea where Sikhism stands on that.

The agenda of the majority is to sleep, drink eat be merry and forget about the Creator and the mission of Life. The people who forget that we are meant to make our way home are the ones caught up in dramas of being able to express their kaamna in every which way, of acquiring wealth ,of 'feeding puttay to their haumai' as my Mum says and telling the world that their way is the only meaningful life.

That is the sad truth of Kalyug

I'd rather stay happy in knowing and following those who have achieved what I am aiming for ...so I will take advice only from Guru ji and his approved Gursikhs.

Are you implying that the Gursikhs in akal takhat are approved by Guru-sahib ji?

I'll agree with you there, but rather than taking advice from other people, we should simply turn to our biggest and most power spiritual teacher himself. Guru Guranth Sahib Maharaj.

Although on the topic of the Akal takhat. Just a question to the more knowledgeable people here, what sort of background do the people who take charge there have. I'm not talking upbringing but things such as Education, how they have traveled, who they met etc. I feel when it comes to the Akal Takhat the main reason many sikhs disrespect it is due to the fact that their almost in a different world from the west. Their decisions are influenced by the Indian Populous. Their afraid to speak out at all.

If one wants to use the natural argument then they must also accept hukham that there will be no progeny, the progeny of such unions are always born out of wedlock which is wrong in the eyes of the faiths . Having a child IS NOT a right but a privilege.

That argument itself is pretty weak on the grounds that homosexuality will never be the majority. Even when observing other species the number of animals that exhibit homosexual is usually fairly steady (I believe something like 10%). They themselves do play a certain role in ensuring the future of their race, even if they do not reproduce themselves. Reproduction is all fine, but even it can never be enough to ensure survival in places such as the wild. Of course we claim we've evolved past that, but regardless that animal instinct still remains in humans.

[MisterrSingh]